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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again * 1
    #22133801 - 08/24/15 03:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So the Wifey and I started the trip by flying into Amsterdam because we didn't want a 6 hour train ride. Is Amsterdam all that it is cracked up to be?

YES 1009 times.

Colorado will never have anything on this city, sorry. Amsterdam is like a permanent street festival that never lets up. The amount of energy it has makes NYC look quaint at times. You can coffeeshop hop, like you would bar hop. You can smoke a joint at the airport before you leave. The architecture is amazing and it really is an experience like no other. Literally. No city in the world gives you the freedom to do what many conservatives consider debauch.

It was my second time in Amsterdam and there will be a 5th time.

Now, I used to think Dutch was an ugly fuckin' language until I heard Flemish/Belgian dutch. The Netherland dutch sounds like a cross between gargling marbles and coughing phlegm while singing T.V. Jingles. Now, 2.5 hours away in Antwerp, the dutch becomes more soft spoken, all the lawnmower sounds go away and BAM! You all of a sudden want to try and speak it. You no longer feel you need to smoke 2 packs of cigarettes a day to pronounce some words.

Antwerp was very awesome, and we were shown the city by one of my friends I met on Tinchat. It reminded me a BIT of Berlin: New buildings next to old ones, and a lax attitude all around. However the Historic Centre was extremely amazing...

BUT

Not compared to Bruges. Bruges is hands down the prettiest man made place I ever been to so far, beating out Prague and Lübeck. In Bruges historic centre, it is almost like the newest buildings are from the early 1800's. Sure, I counted I think 4 post WW2 buildings in Bruges, but you actually have to make a point to find them. Otherwise, being in Bruges may be the closest thing I have experienced to actually time traveling. There is literally nothing in America that compares to European Historic Centres, but Bruges is practically in its own class. Completely unbombed in WW2.

Bruges IS overrun by tourists, it is like timesquare traffic. Some people think Bruges feels fake like Disneyland, but when a place is that exceptional OF COURSE it will be overrun by tourists. NYC is overrun, how come people don't call that place fake? But the buildings in Bruges are REAL. I REALLY stayed in a hotel older than America's constitution. I REALLY smoked weed next to a bridge that was build when Chaucer was writing Canterbury Tales. It's def toursity but not fake feeling to me at all.

All in all, visit Bruges, Antwerp and Amsterdam.

Also, feel free to ask me any questions about Europe and Amsterdam, from the perspective of an American.


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InvisibleLobsterSauceDiscord
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #22133969 - 08/24/15 05:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Although I know the nightlife in Amsterdam is supposed to be really good, I didn't experience it so I can't comment on that.

It was nice to coffee shop hop like you said but I found it way too touristy.

There's also not many places to get some respite from it all as the city is quite small.

Vondel park was nice but also very small.

I would've liked to see them getting furniture into a house by way of those hook things, though.

I was only in Lübeck last week and had a good time, even though it was only a few hours.  It was already dusk but the architecture looked quite impressive.

What did you like about the place?

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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: LobsterSauce]
    #22133983 - 08/24/15 05:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I'm a cheap tour date, I can totally be pleased just by looking at Architecture. I really don't care about Anne Frank houses or museums all that much. Lübeck for me was all about the good seafood, good buildings and also the fact there are some places like that left in Germany is amazing, considering how fucked during the war it got.

Lübeck also has famous Marzipan which is lekker if you like the stuff. Also, I have a thing for those hour long boat tours.

We stayed in  Lübeck for 3 nights and it was 1 night too many, at the third day you realize this amazing Altstadt is nothing more than a giant old folks home, lol, then the magic wears off.

So far the most boring and maybe even ugliest old city I went to was Zurich. Zurich would be cool if you never seen any where else in europe, but compared to other old cities it wasn't that cool. Most boring looking city with some old stuff in it I been was Stuttgart.

Where do you live?


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OfflineHanz
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #22134037 - 08/24/15 06:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Colorado will never have anything on this city, sorry. Amsterdam is like a permanent street festival that never lets up. The amount of energy it has makes NYC look quaint at times. You can coffeeshop hop, like you would bar hop. You can smoke a joint at the airport before you leave. The architecture is amazing and it really is an experience like no other. Literally. No city in the world gives you the freedom to do what many conservatives consider debauch.

It was my second time in Amsterdam and there will be a 5th time.

Now, I used to think Dutch was an ugly fuckin' language until I heard Flemish/Belgian dutch. The Netherland dutch sounds like a cross between gargling marbles and coughing phlegm while singing T.V. Jingles. Now, 2.5 hours away in Antwerp, the dutch becomes more soft spoken, all the lawnmower sounds go away and BAM! You all of a sudden want to try and speak it. You no longer feel you need to smoke 2 packs of cigarettes a day to pronounce some words.





Haha, this made me laugh. Have you ever wondered what your own language sounds like to people that don't speak it. Of course it is impossible to know, so I will never hear dutch without understanding it. Closest I came was during a 24 hour trainride with 4 people from Denmark. No lawnmower sounds, but similar to dutch. Still, completely incomprehensible to me. I spent the day grinning as I listened to them. Btw, a good many dutch would agree with you that flemish sounds more beautiful.

I loved your praise of Amsterdam, my hometown. Really, what some conservative would consider debauch is a healthy enjoyment of life to me. I don't feel debauch at all, it's not like I think we're all wicked here. We're perfectly decent people that happen to enjoy life! Of course I would still very much like to visit NYC, and the US at large...

Love, Hanz.


--------------------
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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Hanz]
    #22134046 - 08/24/15 06:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

No offense to Nederland Dutch, but I really do think the Belgians have a nicer sounding dutch!
I can't really speak Dutch but I can read a good 60% of it, It is almost Identical to German , and if you figure out the mutations it can be easy to figure most things out. Some words and phrases are totally different though. However I understand very little when it is spoken but that is because I don't know the sound sets.

As much as I love Amsterdam,
my favorite city in the Netherlands has to be Utrecht. It is like someone broke off a tiny piece of amsterdam and moved it somewhere. You can have a very amsterdam like experience in Utrecht, but with like 10 times less people.

The G is almost pronounced like a cough or someone clearing your throat. I don't think I could do that all day lol.

How does english sound to you? Because to me, Dutch also sounds like if someone recorded english and played it backwards. Sometimes I think someone is speaking english then i realize i cant understand any of it and that is when I realize it is dutch! It really is right smack dab in between german and english, both in the look and speech of it.


--------------------

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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #22134259 - 08/24/15 07:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm hoping to go to Boom Fest in Portugal next year and may be meeting up with some Shroomery friends in Amsterdam beforehand. I've never been to Europe and Amsterdam is a must see for me. Did you buy any truffles or other psychedelics there?


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22134311 - 08/24/15 07:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

No offense to Nederland Dutch, but I really do think the Belgians have a nicer sounding dutch!




Nonono, Randstad Dutch (West Dutch, Hollandish) sounds awful, here in the South people have that soft G and R and are more Belgian-like in pronounciation. Up north people really bite down on those words, cutting them off prematurely almost, and that sounds good too.

Amsterdam Dutch is great for bickering, arguing and insulting, its easy to accidentally sound aggressive with it.

Get some nederwiet in Amsterdam, a diamond in Antwerp and chocolates in Brussels. :birthday:


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22134318 - 08/24/15 07:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
I'm hoping to go to Boom Fest in Portugal next year and may be meeting up with some Shroomery friends in Amsterdam beforehand. I've never been to Europe and Amsterdam is a must see for me. Did you buy any truffles or other psychedelics there?





I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaated BOOM. LOL. Never again.

Nah, I didn't buy any truffles, as I don't care too much for psilocybin any more. However I have done acid in Amsterdam and you have to be a master at processing information during a trip because even just walking around stoned can be overwhelming. You can totally buy truffles though.


--------------------

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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #22134330 - 08/24/15 07:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Out of curiosity- what did you dislike about Boom? Do you like other music/cultural festivals? Sounds cool from what I've heard expecially since it's in a country where psychedelics are decriminalized


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 

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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Asante]
    #22134332 - 08/24/15 07:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

No offense to Nederland Dutch, but I really do think the Belgians have a nicer sounding dutch!




Nonono, Randstad Dutch (West Dutch, Hollandish) sounds awful, here in the South people have that soft G and R and are more Belgian-like in pronounciation. Up north people really bite down on those words, cutting them off prematurely almost, and that sounds good too.

Amsterdam Dutch is great for bickering, arguing and insulting, its easy to accidentally sound aggressive with it.

Get some nederwiet in Amsterdam, a diamond in Antwerp and chocolates in Brussels. :birthday:




That makes sense. So the General rule with dutch is the farther north you go, the more phlegmy and gargly it sounds?

I also heard the dutch do not like you speaking dutch unless you are like 99% fluent in it. I heard it referred to (the language) as a secret garden, or like a really inclusive club where you need to pass the test absolutely 100% or else they will just undermine you and won't let you speak it.

German can sometimes be like that, but I think less so.


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #22134335 - 08/24/15 07:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Funny- it seems in most countries, the locals appreciate it if you at least make an effort to speak their language


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #22134337 - 08/24/15 07:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Personally I like foreign accents :lol: People here generally speak English French and German too so they tend to switch languages out of courtesy if you struggle with Dutch.

We arent very languiage chauvinist (unless you speak a nationalist)


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Edited by Asante (08/24/15 07:39 AM)

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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22134347 - 08/24/15 07:41 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Funny- it seems in most countries, the locals appreciate it if you at least make an effort to speak their language




Maybe in Bumfuck, Netherlands, but for all intents and purposes, english is the main language in Amsterdam. It's a shame because I can read Dutch really well, I wish I was wicked fast on the pronunciation like I am in German. I will always have an American accent, though. One german kid I met said German girls love the American Accent when Americans speak German.

Also, part of the thing is if it is quite obvious their english is better than your attempts to speak their language, they want to save time and just cut to the chase and speak english. It's partly a time thing, and also not everybody wants to be a teacher.

However, in some ways it discourages people and then they get mad know one tries to learn their language.


--------------------

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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Asante]
    #22134365 - 08/24/15 07:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Personally I like foreign accents :lol: People here generally speak English French and German too so they tend to switch languages out of courtesy if you struggle with Dutch.

We arent very languiage chauvinist (unless you speak a nationalist)




How would you handle this:

Some guy with good English starts speaking Dutch with you. Do you usually give up first and start speaking english, or wait for the other person to give up and start speaking english?

I don't think you guys are language chauvinist, but I do get the vibe that dutch would rather speak dutch only with someone who is 100% fluent. In general of course.

What percentage of Afrikaans do you understand at a spoken level?


--------------------

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #22134373 - 08/24/15 07:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I wouldn't interrupt it but alert the person to that I speak english if he prefers.

I understand some spoken Afrikaans but it would be hard, they have many unique words. More so than a Frisian though.


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Asante]
    #22134389 - 08/24/15 07:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

That's cool, I just sometimes hate it when someone switches to english even though my german is doing fine. There are no rules for the switch, but sometimes switching from language to another and back during conversations can be magical and others sometimes it is fuckin' rude when they switch automatically.


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OfflineHanz
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #22134397 - 08/24/15 07:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
As much as I love Amsterdam,
my favorite city in the Netherlands has to be Utrecht. It is like someone broke off a tiny piece of amsterdam and moved it somewhere. You can have a very amsterdam like experience in Utrecht, but with like 10 times less people.

The G is almost pronounced like a cough or someone clearing your throat. I don't think I could do that all day lol.

How does english sound to you? Because to me, Dutch also sounds like if someone recorded english and played it backwards. Sometimes I think someone is speaking english then i realize i cant understand any of it and that is when I realize it is dutch! It really is right smack dab in between german and english, both in the look and speech of it.




You're absolutely right about Utrecht, it is just like Amsterdam, but even smaller, and more quiet too.

How does English sound to me? The problem is I understand English, I can read and speak it. It therefore sounds completely natural to me. Not so with e.g., danish or, further away, the welsh language. It can be very funny to recognize dutch in the scottish language too. Some words are identical to dutch, and very non-English. I suppose dutch is more saxon than anglo.

You think the dutch G sounds strange? :smile: To some dutch the English "th", as in the, that, and those, is alien. It does not exist in dutch, and when a dutchman learns English at a too late age, he'll never master the "th"-sound.

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
I'm hoping to go to Boom Fest in Portugal next year and may be meeting up with some Shroomery friends in Amsterdam beforehand. I've never been to Europe and Amsterdam is a must see for me. Did you buy any truffles or other psychedelics there?




You're welcome to contact me too if you need something nicechrisman, just PM me and I'll see what I can do.


--------------------
Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks.

Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.

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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Hanz]
    #22134407 - 08/24/15 08:00 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Hanz said:
Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
As much as I love Amsterdam,
my favorite city in the Netherlands has to be Utrecht. It is like someone broke off a tiny piece of amsterdam and moved it somewhere. You can have a very amsterdam like experience in Utrecht, but with like 10 times less people.

The G is almost pronounced like a cough or someone clearing your throat. I don't think I could do that all day lol.

How does english sound to you? Because to me, Dutch also sounds like if someone recorded english and played it backwards. Sometimes I think someone is speaking english then i realize i cant understand any of it and that is when I realize it is dutch! It really is right smack dab in between german and english, both in the look and speech of it.




You're absolutely right about Utrecht, it is just like Amsterdam, but even smaller, and more quiet too.

How does English sound to me? The problem is I understand English, I can read and speak it. It therefore sounds completely natural to me. Not so with e.g., danish or, further away, the welsh language. It can be very funny to recognize dutch in the scottish language too. Some words are identical to dutch, and very non-English. I suppose dutch is more saxon than anglo.

You think the dutch G sounds strange? :smile: To some dutch the English "th", as in the, that, and those, is alien. It does not exist in dutch, and when a dutchman learns English at a too late age, he'll never master the "th"-sound.

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
I'm hoping to go to Boom Fest in Portugal next year and may be meeting up with some Shroomery friends in Amsterdam beforehand. I've never been to Europe and Amsterdam is a must see for me. Did you buy any truffles or other psychedelics there?




You're welcome to contact me too if you need something nicechrisman, just PM me and I'll see what I can do.




I hear that,
I will never master certain German sounds, so I'll always sound like an Expat, but thats cool because accents are cool.

The th is a crazy diphthong. Thought and this, two different ways to pronounce th. And no rules to do so with. If I spoke dutch it would sound like me speaking dutch with english sounds probably.


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Hanz]
    #22134670 - 08/24/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks. That's very nice of you Hanz


--------------------
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it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Amsterdam to Antwerp to Brugge and Back Again [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #22134763 - 08/24/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Funny- it seems in most countries, the locals appreciate it if you at least make an effort to speak their language




Maybe in Bumfuck, Netherlands, but for all intents and purposes, english is the main language in Amsterdam. It's a shame because I can read Dutch really well, I wish I was wicked fast on the pronunciation like I am in German. I will always have an American accent, though. One german kid I met said German girls love the American Accent when Americans speak German.

Also, part of the thing is if it is quite obvious their english is better than your attempts to speak their language, they want to save time and just cut to the chase and speak english. It's partly a time thing, and also not everybody wants to be a teacher.

However, in some ways it discourages people and then they get mad know one tries to learn their language.




From my time in Amsterdam, it almost seems like English is the official language in the Nederthlands, and Dutch is the quaint patois. Never ran into anyone in Amsterdam who didn't speak English.


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