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deff
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interview by a christian contemplative about 'oneness' versus 'no-self'
#22133000 - 08/23/15 09:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I found this interview by Bernadette Roberts, who is a Christian contemplative, to be most excellent and interesting. in it, she describes how her spiritual realization evolved from a state of 'true self' and oneness into a state beyond self and consciousness altogether.
here is the interview: http://www.spiritualteachers.org/b_roberts_interview.htm
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DisoRDeR
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Re: interview by a christian contemplative about 'oneness' versus 'no-self' [Re: deff]
#22140439 - 08/25/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Very interesting. Thanks
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: interview by a christian contemplative about 'oneness' versus 'no-self' [Re: deff]
#22142177 - 08/25/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Interesting article, however, whereas I used to see the arrival (versus attainment, achievement) at the Truth as a singular Reality, only articulated differently by different religious traditions, I am not so certain that this is true. The book Towards the One, taught me that Buddha and Christ point to opposite but complementary movements. Buddha points the way to the untying of the knots of existence, which dismantles the whole process by which we become entwined in karmic drama, due to our unwitting involvement in life, taking us back to the place before becoming was set in motion, before incarnation. Conversely, the book said, Christ points the way to resurrection - to the fulfillment of the development of all this becoming because unlike Buddhism, creation has a purpose, a teleology, and Christ "vouchsafes the kingdom of Heaven on Earth." The conflict (the book says) is resolved if every action we make is freely made instead of a reaction to phenomena we have unwittingly set in motion through the ignorance of the consequences of our action. Therefore, Christ epitomizes the triumph of free-will while Buddha masters the dismantling of determined karmic processes. So in this model, Nirvana is not equivalent to the kingdom of Heaven. There is no blinking the difference between historical and acosmic religions. History is important in Christianity (unless it's Gnostic Christianity) whereas it is not valued as the handiwork of a Creator in Buddhism. 
Neophyte provided this link on Towards the One. I hope it works. Look under Buddha-Christ. https://mega.nz/#F!tgQUzTaD!HIUZTPHoLviYtovVAXo9FA
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (08/25/15 11:00 PM)
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Deviate
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Re: interview by a christian contemplative about 'oneness' versus 'no-self' [Re: deff] 1
#22143257 - 08/25/15 09:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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thanks for posting this, that article clarified a lot for me. I will have to study her teachings further.
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deff
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Re: interview by a christian contemplative about 'oneness' versus 'no-self' [Re: Deviate]
#22143348 - 08/25/15 09:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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after reading the interview, i ordered one of her books and am looking forward to reading it she seems to be quite unique in many ways to me, it's a more agreeable presentation of the Christian path and goal than I've come across, as I have been more heavily influenced by Buddhist ideas primarily
as Markos says, the two paths can be seen to be two expressions of a singular truth and reality, or conversely as two unique directions with unique goals. I'm not sure which view I would subscribe to, as I also don't think either religious figure (Buddha or Christ) really laid out the totality of their spiritual insight in their respective religions - I also question the validity of the accuracy of the transmissions. I think both paths could be seen as valid in themselves, and yet only small views of a much larger unifying reality that so far has yet to be totally encapsulated in any human religion. and I don't think necessarily it can be encapsulated in human concepts. I'm personally of the belief that no matter how profound the realization is of a human while embodied, more profound expansions of being and experience and knowledge await us beyond these lifetimes
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Deviate
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Re: interview by a christian contemplative about 'oneness' versus 'no-self' [Re: deff] 1
#22143517 - 08/25/15 10:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
One possible way of envisioning the human passage is the following. We think of ourselves as originally emerging from the unknown, from darkness, nothingness or non-existence into the light of consciousness. But as consciousness develops we discover the increasing ability to see in the dark, see into the nothingness or mystery within ourselves and eventually realize that this darkness and nothingness is the divine from which we emerged and with which we are one. Thus we discover that our original darkness IS true light. Midway in this passage, divine light (darkness or unknowing) and the light of consciousness are in balance, with neither outshining the other. But as we move beyond this mid-point, divine light begins to outshine the light of consciousness until, in the end, the light of consciousness goes out and only divine light remains. From this vantage point we look back on the passage and see that although consciousness was the veil that dimmed the light, this dimming was necessary in order to make the human dimension possible. But if consciousness makes human existence possible, it is also not separate from the divine, nor does it completely hide it; on the contrary, consciousness or self is man's faculty or medium for experiencing the divine -- so long as it remains, that is [this is key]. Our passage through consciousness is the gradual return to the divine; we leave the divine unknowingly and in darkness, but we return knowingly and in light.
Amazing. This is very similar to what I have concluded based on my study of Christian mysticism, my contemplation and my use of the fly agaric mushroom. Hearing this articulated in this way (with much greater clarity than I currently possess) helps to both shed light and to trust my own insights.
A big problem I have had with many modern spiritual teachers who talk about this stuff, is they don't use Christian terminology and often don't show respect toward Christianity or the Christian take on things. Being a Christian myself, I feel compelled to figure out how all this fits together with Christian thought and it seems as though I have finally found someone who can articulate it.
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deff
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Re: interview by a christian contemplative about 'oneness' versus 'no-self' [Re: Deviate]
#22143579 - 08/25/15 10:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I thought you in particular might really like her presentation as it comes from a Christian point of view though unlike some Christian sources, I find her ideas to be quite open to people who don't necessarily subscribe to Christianity as their religion in that sense I find it bridges the gap between traditions nicely
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