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Offlinekid_o
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How to actively direct trip to resolve issues
    #22132486 - 08/23/15 07:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

So I've had my first psychedelic trip (mescaline) the other day. Needless to say, it was all unimaginably fascinating and eye opening. While I let the peak (hour 2 to 3 or 4 after ingesting) just happen, I think I was able to consciously choose what paths to go down, or not afterwards, e.g. by choosing the right music or thinking about stuff I wanted to think about. At the same time, I instinctively steered off anything that had a negative effect on my mood. Several times I resisted "going somewhere dark" by altering the sensory inputs or my attention as soon as I felt uneasy.

Now I'm not sure if I should have had the courage to go down one of these roads and see what happens. One of my intention was to understand my personal issues and complexes better and possibly revisit past events which had a negative effect on me when I was young. The trip left me thinking about how to go about that because I was actually somehow able to think a lot about a past relationship that was haunting me for 1.5 years and which seems to have been resolved with the trip (my feelings have changed pretty radically in a way that I can understand and accept it much better).

Now, after understanding the power of the psychedelic experience better, I have the urge to do it again and to prepare myself more appropriately in order to be able to direct my attention to other subconscious sources of stress I want to resolve.

How would you go about it? Does it help to think a lot about those issues beforehand so there is a higher probability that they come up during the subsequent trip? Or do you prepare a lists of things to think about and put it somewhere you wont miss it? Any other approaches?
Is it beneficial to go down "dark paths" e.g. by putting on music that triggers it? Do you have some sort of "emergency button", e.g. super happy music which you press when things are about to turn bad?


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: kid_o]
    #22132614 - 08/23/15 08:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Well, for mescaline what I do is try to follow the basic format of the native american peyote ceremony. Having a ritual or ceremony is so much more effective than just ingesting the compound and hoping for the best. the native americans really know what they are doing, unlike us white folks who often haven't a clue about how to get the most out of a trip. This is one of the things Leary discovered when he was researching psychedelics, the importance of ritual. It is something we in our culture have forgotten.

So I begin each session with prayer like the native americans. Then I build the sacred fire. When the trip really gets going, I put on the native american peyote healing music. Then I relax and allow the music to guide my trip.

What I have experienced while listening to this music has been nothing short of miraculous. Somehow, with no effort on my part, the music naturally brings out the parts of me that are broken and need healing. Now, this is an extremely painful process because what the cactus has told me to do is to face and experience feeling as fully as possible without resisting or turning away. But afterward, the healing is real.

Now when most white folks trip, they may stumble upon some spiritual guidance or they might not. However, with the peyote music and the right attitude, (humble, respectful, prayerful) you may very well have an encounter with the peyote spirits. These are spirit guides whose only intention is to heal you. I can alwyas feel it when the spirits come. When you have contact with the spirits, the most important thing is trust. You must trust the peyote spirits and they WILL heal you. It is also very important that you make an offering to the spirits. My first several trips I failed to do this, until the spirits basically hit me over the head with a hammer and told me what a stupid white man I was that I didn't even understand I was supposed to make them an offering. That is like spirits 101. You make an offering.

Anyway to answer some of your questions

Quote:


How would you go about it? Does it help to think a lot about those issues beforehand so there is a higher probability that they come up during the subsequent trip?




You can do this, although I often find that when I dwell on something beforehand when the trip kicks in I just feel like I was being silly worrying so much about X and I don't even want to bother thinking about it anymore.

Quote:

Or do you prepare a lists of things to think about and put it somewhere you wont miss it?




Ive never made a list, but that sounds like a good idea. Usually I will simply pick one or two intentions for my trip and try to remember my intention for tripping whenever I find myself veering off or feeling confused. I like the idea of making a list though, I will have to remember that.


Quote:

Any other approaches?




Another approach I have had success with is doing the things that aren't working out for me sober, while tripping. For example, I struggle with shyness and social anxiety so one of the things I will sometimes do on mescaline is go to a public area and strike up conversations with strangers. The mescaline helps me to observe the processes in my mind that are leading to irrational fear. I also recently went to church on a high dose of mescaline and the mescaline helped me to see where I was going wrong in my relationship with the LORD.

Quote:

Is it beneficial to go down "dark paths" e.g. by putting on music that triggers it?




In my opinion, no. You want to face fully with love and faith any darkness that you find in yourself should it arise, but you don't want to try to bring up darkness purposely. I think it is better to surrender control and let the experience guide you where it wants, especially in the beginning. Take control back when the drug gives you control back and do what you want with it then.

Quote:

Do you have some sort of "emergency button", e.g. super happy music which you press when things are about to turn bad?




Yeah, I have a few things. I have my beloved peyote music, the Grateful Dead (Grateful Dead are so amazing on mescaline) and sometimes I smoke marijuana to change the direction of a trip, or simply change the environment you are in. If you are inside, go outside. If you are outside, go inside, etc. Prayer also works as a centering device.

The thing that is most important for tripping is going to be your faith. I also recommend you study the appropriate tripping material, this includes books like the psychedelic experience by Leary , Alpert and Metzer, be here now by Ram Daas is another good one and of course holy books like the Bible, the Tao Te Ching, etc.

Btw, you made the right choice in using mescaline for this. It is so much better for working with personal issues than other psychedelics in my opinion.


Edited by Deviate (08/23/15 08:31 PM)


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: Deviate]
    #22132734 - 08/23/15 08:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If you want to ponder personal issues and problems while tripping, there's nothing wrong with that necessarily. Assuming you're mentally stable, the worst thing likely to happen is that you'll experience a lot of anxiety.

If you decide to think about problems and issues in your life while tripping, here's pretty much what they can do for you:

While you're tripping, you're going to make connections between things (thoughts, feelings, events, ideas, causes and effects both real and potential,etc.) that you normally would not.

Everything is going to feel MUCH more profound and significant than they normally would, pretty much across the board. Psychedelics induce powerful feelings of understanding and significance. This has the potential to be both helpful and detrimental. This can be helpful because it can help any beneficial connections,plans, resolutions, etc. that you come up with and connect to stick with you and encourage you to commit to them and stick with them going forward. It can be harmful because not all connections you make while under the influence of psychedelics are accurate and helpful. It is entirely possible for you to latch on a chain of associations while tripping that complete nonsense, or would even be harmful were you to incorporate them into your daily life and behavior.  These will feel just as profound and significant.

Psychedelics can certainly help you gain some insight into your personal issues and help you make the changes needed to resolve them. However, it is absolutely critical that you temper your psychedelic realizations and epiphanies with sober critical analysis.


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: kid_o] * 1
    #22132740 - 08/23/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Meditation before, during, and after


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Offlinekid_o
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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22132893 - 08/23/15 09:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks guys, I didn't expect to get such quick responses!

Deviate:
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I'm using San Pedro but I guess it's similar to Peyote. Are the native songs the same as the "Icaros" of the shamans in South America? I will definitely try them, next time.
I was very fascinated with the effect music (esp. ambient/shoegaze) had on me during the trip.
Wow, so you went to talk to random people while on mescaline? That didn't even cross my mind! I was kind of afraid of meet anyone while on it. Apart from that, what I would have talked would probably have made very little sense, judging from the stuff I wrote down during the experience.
Thank you for your book recommendations by the way. Already downloading Dam Rass and Leary. Also looking into CG Jungs work now that I basically have the "key" to the subconscious. :wink:

LSDreamer:
I think I am rather stable. No mental issues apart from a certain shyness, anxiety to speak in front of crowds, or similar.
It might be because it was my first experience but something was telling me to be very cautious. I'm still not sure if the trip can really make you do something really crazy or dangerous just because you find yourself in a certain dream.
There was one point in time after the peak where I got hungry and went to the kitchen to cut some fruit. For some reason, I had the idea to switch to a Nine Inch Nails track at the same time, which obviously totally changed my mood... so there I was with a knife in my hand listening to NIN and I suddenly I felt like I had to change the track as it felt dangerous. Not that I've ever intentionally cut myself or something... maybe I don't trust myself/my subconscious enough? Maybe an experience thing?

nicechrisman:
What type of meditation do you do? I feel like it's a great idea to do before the effects set in but how do you do it "during"? What happens? When meditating sober it kind of frees my mind but I can't imagine that happen when under the influence when dreams just pass through you constantly...?


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: kid_o]
    #22132898 - 08/23/15 09:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I usually just do sitting meditation focusing on calm breathing. Try it. You can do it during.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Offlinekid_o
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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22132923 - 08/23/15 09:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

What does it do for you? I don't know but I feel like I would be wasting time I could be spending pondering about stuff, haha.


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: kid_o]
    #22133041 - 08/23/15 09:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kid_o said:
What does it do for you? I don't know but I feel like I would be wasting time I could be spending pondering about stuff, haha.




While I can certainly see how meditating under the influence of psychedelics would be beneficial, I don't think it would be particularly helpful or beneficial if meditation is not something you're already familiar with.

Meditation is a practice that can have a variety of positive effects, but it requires consistent practice to achieve them. There are a number of different descriptions, methods, traditions, etc. associated with meditation, with varying degrees of ceremony, mysticism, and religiosity associated with them.

For the most part, however, they can all be stripped down to the same basic practice, just done in different ways.

The basic goal of meditation is for you to take your focus and direct it at one, single object for an extended period of time. Accomplishing this can cause deep relaxation, euphoria, and even a significantly altered state of mind at a high level. Personally, when I've done meditation on a regular basis, I used mantra which is where you focus on a word or phrase in your mind. I used "So" on the in breath and "Hum" on the out breath. I'll expand further a little later on this. Can't type it all out right this minute


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: kid_o]
    #22133051 - 08/23/15 09:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Deviate:
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I'm using San Pedro but I guess it's similar to Peyote.




Well I use San Pedro also because peyote is illegal. I feel like it is similar enough that the peyote songs work for it also.

Quote:

Are the native songs the same as the "Icaros" of the shamans in South America? I will definitely try them, next time.




well, no they are not the same. Which Icaros songs are you reffering to? The ayahuasca? Cuz I couldn't find much San Pedro music.

Quote:


I was very fascinated with the effect music (esp. ambient/shoegaze) had on me during the trip.
Wow, so you went to talk to random people while on mescaline? That didn't even cross my mind! I was kind of afraid of meet anyone while on it. Apart from that, what I would have talked would probably have made very little sense, judging from the stuff I wrote down during the experience.




Well I am probably a little more experienced with mescaline than you are, my first time I wouldn't wanted to talk to anyone either. With experience, you will learn to control yourself more and be able to be in public on mescaline. WHat dose did you take btw?


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Offlinekid_o
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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22133067 - 08/23/15 10:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I've meditated sober (still newbie though) but have a hard time imagining what would happen when doing it during a trip. Will give it a shot but curious to hear how you do it without just getting sucked into a psychedelic dream? What happens when you close your eyes and meditate during a trip?


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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: Deviate]
    #22133080 - 08/23/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah I can't ever find any traditional San Pedro music either. I like to incorporate some peyote songs though, and they are easy to find.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22133088 - 08/23/15 10:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

kid_o said:
What does it do for you? I don't know but I feel like I would be wasting time I could be spending pondering about stuff, haha.




While I can certainly see how meditating under the influence of psychedelics would be beneficial, I don't think it would be particularly helpful or beneficial if meditation is not something you're already familiar with.

Meditation is a practice that can have a variety of positive effects, but it requires consistent practice to achieve them. There are a number of different descriptions, methods, traditions, etc. associated with meditation, with varying degrees of ceremony, mysticism, and religiosity associated with them.

For the most part, however, they can all be stripped down to the same basic practice, just done in different ways.

The basic goal of meditation is for you to take your focus and direct it at one, single object for an extended period of time. Accomplishing this can cause deep relaxation, euphoria, and even a significantly altered state of mind at a high level. Personally, when I've done meditation on a regular basis, I used mantra which is where you focus on a word or phrase in your mind. I used "So" on the in breath and "Hum" on the out breath. I'll expand further a little later on this. Can't type it all out right this minute





To expand a bit, essentially with mediation what you want to do is pick an object of focus. Doesn't actually really matter what it is. Like I said, I used mantra. Some use breath itself. Some use an external object. You take your entire awareness and direct it only at that object of focus so that there is nothing else in your mind. Very shortly, a thought will creep into your mind. The goal here is to allow thoughts to pass through your mind. To observe them, but not "think" them. What that basically means is if you're meditating and the thought "I wonder what's for dinner" pops into your mind, observing that thought would be it ending there and immediately returning to your object of focus. "Thinking" the thought would be if you, for example, went on to think "I think I want a cheeseburger." and so on and so forth.

When you notice that you've been thinking thoughts rather than observing them, you gently return your attention to your object of focus.

And that's really pretty much all there is to it. At first, your mind will wander frequently. Then it will wander less and less over time if you take 15 minutes a day to do this. It can be surprisingly beneficial and pleasurable.


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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: kid_o]
    #22133093 - 08/23/15 10:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kid_o said:
I've meditated sober (still newbie though) but have a hard time imagining what would happen when doing it during a trip. Will give it a shot but curious to hear how you do it without just getting sucked into a psychedelic dream? What happens when you close your eyes and meditate during a trip?




I've never meditated tripping, so I don't really know. :shrug:


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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: Deviate]
    #22133121 - 08/23/15 10:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:

Well I use San Pedro also because peyote is illegal. I feel like it is similar enough that the peyote songs work for it also.

well, no they are not the same. Which Icaros songs are you reffering to? The ayahuasca? Cuz I couldn't find much San Pedro music.





I mean the Icaros songs Ecuadorian/Peruvian shamans use. I was under the impression they use the same for Ayahuasca and Huachuma (San Pedro) but might be totally wrong... e.g. this one: www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW-zjw9c4n8

Quote:


Well I am probably a little more experienced with mescaline than you are, my first time I wouldn't wanted to talk to anyone either. With experience, you will learn to control yourself more and be able to be in public on mescaline. What dose did you take btw?



You definitely are! I made the dose with 400g of raw material (weight before cutting away anything) but only drank around 4/5 of it in the end. It lasted 5-6 hours and was probably a rather small dose (which was totally fine for the first time). The next time I'm planning to up it a bit (same plant).


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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: kid_o]
    #22133134 - 08/23/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

They don't use the same icaros for San Pedro as they do for Ayahuasca, but if the songs move you, then there's nothing wrong with using them. I prefer peyote songs because I think they are more in tune with the vibes of the cactus. I wish I could find a recording of some traditional San Pedro songs though. Maybe that can be a project when I go to Peru.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: kid_o]
    #22133172 - 08/23/15 10:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kid_o said:
How would you go about it? Does it help to think a lot about those issues beforehand so there is a higher probability that they come up during the subsequent trip? Or do you prepare a lists of things to think about and put it somewhere you wont miss it? Any other approaches?
Is it beneficial to go down "dark paths" e.g. by putting on music that triggers it? Do you have some sort of "emergency button", e.g. super happy music which you press when things are about to turn bad?




You can't really direct strong trips, but if you manage to remember what it was you were trying to do with the trip (if you can even remember that you're tripping in the first place :lol:) but yeah, prepping like that can help.  Holding a conscious intention is the best.  I've tried writing things down but I never remember to look at it.

If you want dark paths go for it I suppose.  There's no guarantee there. :shrug:


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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22135945 - 08/24/15 03:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
They don't use the same icaros for San Pedro as they do for Ayahuasca, but if the songs move you, then there's nothing wrong with using them. I prefer peyote songs because I think they are more in tune with the vibes of the cactus. I wish I could find a recording of some traditional San Pedro songs though. Maybe that can be a project when I go to Peru.



I'll see what I can find here in Ecuador. :wink:


Edited by kid_o (08/24/15 03:13 PM)


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: kid_o]
    #22135991 - 08/24/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You are in Ecuador? Do you live there or just visiting?


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22136009 - 08/24/15 03:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Living here for a while.


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Re: How to actively direct trip to resolve issues [Re: kid_o]
    #22136496 - 08/24/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Nice. What town?


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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