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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: zZZz]
#22178676 - 09/02/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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You do it in the first place because it's something to do.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Thanatos10
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Rahz]
#22178727 - 09/02/15 03:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: But doesn't that make it pointless? The way I just see people now is as things, no different than a rock.
No, not pointless just transient. You seem to be searching for an ultimate and eternal point/purpose. To my mind this is simply unhinged desire and death anxiety. My point/purpose here is to possibly be helpful to you. 5 minutes from now my purpose will be something else. I have less transient purposes in my life, but no matter how long term something is it will come to an end. That is how reality works, but there are common themes and one body replaces another. Ultimate purpose is something that is inferred based on the regularity of what happens. Many want to get caught up in something larger than themselves, in the process creating idols to worship. I think your point of view is a good counter balance to fanaticism, but if you insist too much in ignoring your own complexity you risk being a fanatic all the same. Bloated self importance through unimportance.
As far as how you see people, is this a normal/natural perceptual selfishness you are experiencing? A lopsided viewpoint, or a righteous individuality? The answer is rarely cut and dry. Your perceptions are likely not as cut and dry as you present them. Perhaps you seek a solitary point of view at the expense of complexity, accepting the opposite of what you wish for to avoid grasping at smoke. But what if such a task is insurmountable, to simple for a human mind to feast on for more than a little while? Perhaps best to turn from such a path or find ones self reduced and gnawing at old bones. You don't have to make up your mind about these things. Hold a dual nature and be curious about it all. If someone tells you to come down off the fence you can tell them to fuck off, with measured firmness knowing they are as human as you.
I'm afraid I don't quite understand.
On another matter, I have had so much bad happen that I have come to believe that "good" is not good for me.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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deff
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22179081 - 09/02/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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"There is no reason not to love, not to be joyous. There is no reason not to celebrate because all of this means nothing, absolutely nothing!" - Rama
just a quote that reminded me of this thread
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deff
just love everyone



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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#22179092 - 09/02/15 05:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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a possibly insightful enquiry you could do Thanatos, is to enquire into why you're disappointed that there appears to be no objective meaning. Why is that a bad thing to you? I think a lot of this is dissonance between wanting meaning and not finding any - which gives you the options of finding meaning, or letting go of the desire to have meaning. What is meaning anyways? Are concepts true to reality in the first place?
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Thanatos10
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: deff]
#22179233 - 09/02/15 05:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: "There is no reason not to love, not to be joyous. There is no reason not to celebrate because all of this means nothing, absolutely nothing!" - Rama
just a quote that reminded me of this thread 
By the same logic there would be no point to any of those things either.
As for the lack of meaning, it means that nothing I like doing matters at all. Nothing that I do matters, I have no power, I have nothing. Anything I would create would be meaningless and pointless, but the alternative death is just as pointless. So I'm stuck between two worlds with no point in either of them. If nothing I do has any meaning or it doesn't matter then why do anything than rot away? How can I let go of finding meaning and enjoy life? What am I supposed to do then if nothing has a purpose or point? What am I supposed to do aside from being useless?
What am I supposed to do?
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zZZz
jesus


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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22179302 - 09/02/15 05:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: On another matter, I have had so much bad happen that I have come to believe that "good" is not good for me.
so in other words, it is YOU who chooses to feel this way, just as you choose to look at the negative side of the spectrum u can easily choose to look at the positive just as well, but u dont want to.. or atleast not at this point in time..
idk what else to tell u, ime the positive triumphs over the negative, always. but i guess it takes being in the negative to realize this.
good luck
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Thanatos10
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: zZZz]
#22179667 - 09/02/15 07:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's pretty much impossible to see the positive side to things when every time you try to life throws something to kick you down again.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Rahz
Alive Again



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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22180004 - 09/02/15 08:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: I'm afraid I don't quite understand.
On another matter, I have had so much bad happen that I have come to believe that "good" is not good for me.
I said nothing of what was good or bad I was simply talking of perceptions. That's for you to decide. Cast off your social conditioning to whatever extent you feel necessary. Of course, if there's no point or purpose in it perhaps you will do nothing. If there's no point or purpose to anything how come you post here? How do you manage to do anything at all?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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nuentoter
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Rahz]
#22180112 - 09/02/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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fuck it, whats the point of trying to look for a point? why rot away? what would be the point of wasting good flesh?
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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zZZz
jesus


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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22180229 - 09/02/15 08:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: It's pretty much impossible to see the positive side to things when every time you try to life throws something to kick you down again.
then u dust urself off and try again
or u curl up under a rock and wallow in self pity
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BrendanFlock
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: zZZz]
#22185338 - 09/03/15 09:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nihilism is just a byproduct of an unforgiving culture..or ignorance necessarily..
If everybody was forgiving..we would be living in a utopia..and then we would just call nihilism but one of the many faculties of the thinking mind!
Edited by BrendanFlock (09/03/15 09:37 PM)
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Memories



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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22185688 - 09/03/15 10:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: But doesn't that make it pointless? The way I just see people now is as things, no different than a rock.
I used to feel exactly as you do. In fact, I spent most of my conscious life feeling this way, and with it came intense despair, apathy, and anxiety.
Your perspective on things isn't incorrect or illogical. You are correct when you assert that there is no more universal or ultimate value inherent to humans than rocks.
Value is merely a spectrum of feelings of varying importance ascribed to the different components of life, a trait which some organisms have evolved to make choices that are more evolutionarily advantageous.
Finding oneself in such existential conundrums can be extremely painful, often exacerbated if one was fed false hopes of some kind of meaning or purpose that transcended the mere ever shifting whims of humanity.
Basically, I had to leave behind those dreams of some greater meaning and help myself more fully understand how futile said wishes were from the start.
I realized that meaning didn't transcend my subjective self, and that it was then up to me to find life experiences that felt personally meaningful. I've slowly given into the impersonal cycle of change i've come to find myself entrenched it.
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Cognitive_Shift
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You guys should read about absurdism if you're interested in nihilism. It's was the stepping stone that got me out of nihilism and into existentialism.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Thanatos10
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So it's been some time and I have been trying to overcome this. I have read the advice and tried some things, but I just keep backsliding. I don't know if the next day is going to be better or worse than the one before. I feel like such things as love and compassion are useless, I don't even know why people value them so much. I just feel so lost with no direction.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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nuentoter
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#22257709 - 09/18/15 07:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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You don't know why people value love of compassion? Read your own posts, that's what happens when people don't value these qualities. Sucks doesn't it?
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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Thanatos10
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: nuentoter]
#22257944 - 09/18/15 08:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't get it. I just don't see the value or point of those qualities.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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nuentoter
conduit



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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22258797 - 09/19/15 01:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The point is to not feel the way YOU do. It is the positive yin to your negative yang.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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Thanatos10
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: nuentoter]
#22259459 - 09/19/15 09:26 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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But I just don't get it though, I don't see the value in such things. Feeling good isn't so much a point as it is a result of an action. It also doesn't tell me why people value it so much. Why they care what happens to strangers they have never met.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: nuentoter]
#22260999 - 09/19/15 04:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yin and yang seems a mix of passive and assertive. It also has the subtle to it represented by the pin drop. So maybe like that, if there were such things as truth, beauty and goodness, they would grow from a seed of principle.
I think it was well said by Aristotle, in that principle of principle: "any conscious thought or action is for some end, and therefore, rightly examined, for some form of good."
Granted if you think about Aristotle's principle, there is nothing that can be said about that, and so it has rightly been called a tautology. But there is nothing that within consciousness or awareness, can be said outside of this principle of expression either. There is nothing to speak of which is not filled like a jug it seems to me.
Even nature itself is found in such a principle of it's causes, physis, which is really to say that the cause was determined to be only so far as it is uncaused. I will always hold this to be the definitive reading of Aristotle although it doesn't seem to often be seen in face of the immensity of his analyses.
His wisdom may suggest more or less consciously that everything is in how we circumspect causes, and namely the efficient cause of our own. That is definitely there. It is interesting that other systems have held more clearly that a passive element, or emptiness itself is realizable in a similar way, suffice, that just as much as there is dispassion. I wonder about this.
I think Nietzsche well noted there is such a thing as a passive passions, like of resentment and idle envy of others, which is another kind of seed, that is pretty much coming out of a passive or dark element, but not entirely that. The point in looking to that (say into myself ideally) is either in the sharpness of such a criticism, which suggests a more upright attitude, or the general suggestion that if the emptiness or void in myself is something I look for other people to fill, it is just like the seed being dropped. It's the same relation. If my passivity is like that, I will not be able to root the thing out of myself, which I often wish to.
In respect to this thread, I'd note that "values" in general seem like they can be spoken of relativistically, because there is a place for that. But what is it to seek principle? The principles seem to only be displaced by the new seeds...
Edited by Kurt (09/19/15 09:15 PM)
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BrendanFlock
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Kurt]
#22266321 - 09/20/15 06:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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This is an interesting discussion..im off drugs but for some reason I feel a bit brighter...it might be the case that whatever mood your in..there will always be something that can illuminate your life, like me typing up this response..and what your nihilism might be doing..is just going over everything to see what you want to do..and what applies to your life..The funny thing about nihilism..is that it cant end at nothing at all because you are here..so that you may think that nothing is real..but you can never deny the independent reality of your thoughts, senses and awareness...
So its kind of a motivator and positive reinforcer..although it took me several months to get over my nihilistic depression..in the end you can find the inner awareness and sense of something beyond words..which is totally pure and fun..and then you may me someone who changes your world around
and from there you learn a new responsibility one that may change your life for the better..otherwise you just need to keep searching..Searching for something better..and something that seems honest..and therein has real value..I know nihilism is about deconstructing your normal value system..so im honestly happy for you..even though you think nothing specifically may help you..It is a wonder, the dark night of the soul..but afterwords you build up lots of energy..and gain special powers and stuff..
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