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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22176043 - 09/01/15 09:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: How do they apply? They don't negate nihilism, they don't disprove it, they don't add value where there is none.
Because you made a post talking about how you're having trouble with Nihilism, and in it, you're talking about how you're having trouble coming to terms with nihilism. The quote's not trying to negate or disprove anything. It's talking about adopting a certain type of attitude.
When you say things like this:
Quote:
I just can't shake this nagging feeling inside that nothing matters and it's all pointless. I feel a cold sensation in my heart and yet my body feels pretty good. I'm not sure what to make of all this.
and
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I just can't shake this nagging feeling in my head that tells me it's all pointless. No matter what I do to distract myself.
You're talking about how these ideas are hard to come to terms with and how you feel oppressed by them when the quote that JSB posted was about how to quit fooling yourself and to just accept that it's how reality is.
Nihilism seems disheartening when you operate under these expectations that the world should be a certain way. It should cater to humans. There should be an intrinsic meaning to our lives. There should be a standard set of morals handed down to us, when really, life just is.
Edited by r72rock (09/01/15 09:50 PM)
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: r72rock]
#22176066 - 09/01/15 09:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do most people go through the Nihilism faze around 19-20 years old?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Thanatos10
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Registered: 01/19/15
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I'm disheartens because I feel like there is no reason for me to do or attempt anything in life if it doesn't matter. If it all amounts to nothing in the end why bother? Why fall in love? Why try to change the world? Why have fun?
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22176282 - 09/01/15 10:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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In 100 years no one will know who you were and unless you're a historical figure the thought of you will never go through another persons mind till the end of time. Worrying about this is all coming of age stuff though. Eventually you'll figure out life sucks, it's not fair but you just do it anyways.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22176328 - 09/01/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: I'm disheartens because I feel like there is no reason for me to do or attempt anything in life if it doesn't matter. If it all amounts to nothing in the end why bother? Why fall in love? Why try to change the world? Why have fun?
That's exactly what I was talking about. You want to be given a reason. You're expecting a reason. That's what a fool does, as explained by Rool Kat.
Give yourself a reason. You're your own authority.
My response would be, if nothing matters, why wouldn't you bother? Why wouldn't you fall it love? Or try to change the world? Why wouldn't you want to enjoy yourself and have fun? What do you have to lose, nothing? Obviously something matters enough for you to keep coming on this board to try and prove to me, or yourself, that there are no reasons.
Nihilism is an affirmation. It's the affirmation of meaninglessness. I'm personally just skeptical of things that affirm absolutes.
I love this one Sam Keen interview where he was asked about the meaning of life. His answer was something along the lines of, if you abstract it and ask questions about it, then yeah it's trivial and hard to pin down and give an answer, and in an absolute sense, there may be none.
But if you would have asked him a couple weeks prior when he was at a family gathering what the meaning of life was, he'd laugh in your face and dismiss it because at that moment it was obvious to him.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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Thanatos10
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: r72rock]
#22176606 - 09/02/15 12:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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But the point is that if it doesn't matter why do it in the first place?
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#22176883 - 09/02/15 03:01 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: That nothing matters, that there is no point to you, me, or anything else in this universe. There is no purpose or meaning to life and anything we give it is just an illusion to cope with our insignificance.
Purpose simply happens. Part of your purpose seems to be spending time here talking about how life doesn't seem to have purpose.
Permanence is false, but it says nothing of purpose. Life is full of purpose, desperate though it may be at times.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Thanatos10
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Rahz]
#22177454 - 09/02/15 09:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: That nothing matters, that there is no point to you, me, or anything else in this universe. There is no purpose or meaning to life and anything we give it is just an illusion to cope with our insignificance.
Purpose simply happens. Part of your purpose seems to be spending time here talking about how life doesn't seem to have purpose.
Permanence is false, but it says nothing of purpose. Life is full of purpose, desperate though it may be at times.
That is not a purpose, it's trying to find a way to deal with this but nothing is working.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22177573 - 09/02/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is purpose, just not what you would like.
Those are the illusions life is made of. When a person finds value in purpose they may feel they were "born to do this".
The only difference is perceptual.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Thanatos10
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Rahz]
#22177588 - 09/02/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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But doesn't that make it pointless? The way I just see people now is as things, no different than a rock.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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nuentoter
conduit



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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10] 3
#22177598 - 09/02/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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After reading through all of this I think I've come to the conclusion that Thanatos10, you may be just lazy, demanding a reason to do anything. Do you really need a reason to do things? Why can't you just make this shit up as you go? Your life, Your rules, some have consequences. Your right though, that none of this really means anything in the end. From my point of view though that in itself frees me of any worry about screwing stuff up or getting it wrong, I can't cuz it doesn't really matter. So I just do what I wanna do and see how it turns out. If it turns out shit then cool it doesn't really matter. If it turns out awesome then I guess I at the least occupied some time that made me happy doing it.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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Thanatos10
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: nuentoter]
#22178062 - 09/02/15 12:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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But that doesn't answer the question. If there is no point and no meaning then why do it to begin with? What's the motivation to do anything?
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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deff
just love everyone



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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22178084 - 09/02/15 12:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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do things out of joy and love - simply for the reason that it feels good to do it? why do you need a conceptual lens of meaning to align with a non-conceptual experience like joy and fun?
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Thanatos10
Stranger



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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: deff]
#22178103 - 09/02/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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But there is no point to joy or love either though....
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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deff
just love everyone



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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22178119 - 09/02/15 12:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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sure there is! joy is it's own point it sounds like you don't have much joy in your life right now unfortunately
when you experience joy it also can elicit a feeling of deep meaningfulness - not a relational meaning (like "this joy is meaningful because it leads to..." etc) but rather a spontaneous self-referential resonance of self-satisfaction!
i would recommend you try and become happy and joyful - not out of obligation to fulfill a purpose or because there's some objective conceptual point to it - but rather because joy feels great! if you're joyful, I don't think you would find the notion of a lack of inherent objective meaning (which is still just a guess from our point of view) to be something negative. to me it sounds like a case of depression
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Thanatos10
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: deff]
#22178141 - 09/02/15 01:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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What joy is there in the void though? What joy is there in being null? How can I be happy when my life has no meaning or purpose? That I'm just as expendable as anyone else?
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22178152 - 09/02/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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when you're in a state of joy, those questions really don't arise
it's like there's two shores separated by a river. on one side where you are, there's conceptual rationality and seeking a meaning that doesn't seem to be forthcoming. on the other shore there's non-conceptual bliss, happiness, joy, love, and ironically a deep sense of self-satisfying meaning. the river is the journey you would need to take to go from one shore to the other, to let go of your insistence of having a conceptual meaning to life or else there's no point to do anything, basically being in a box of excessive intellect without feeling, and moving into something much more fun but only you can cross that river, if you really want to. and it might be hard if you're quite used to your current state, but imo it's the best idea of what you should do what do you have to lose?
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#22178204 - 09/02/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: But doesn't that make it pointless? The way I just see people now is as things, no different than a rock.
No, not pointless just transient. You seem to be searching for an ultimate and eternal point/purpose. To my mind this is simply unhinged desire and death anxiety. My point/purpose here is to possibly be helpful to you. 5 minutes from now my purpose will be something else. I have less transient purposes in my life, but no matter how long term something is it will come to an end. That is how reality works, but there are common themes and one body replaces another. Ultimate purpose is something that is inferred based on the regularity of what happens. Many want to get caught up in something larger than themselves, in the process creating idols to worship. I think your point of view is a good counter balance to fanaticism, but if you insist too much in ignoring your own complexity you risk being a fanatic all the same. Bloated self importance through unimportance.
As far as how you see people, is this a normal/natural perceptual selfishness you are experiencing? A lopsided viewpoint, or a righteous individuality? The answer is rarely cut and dry. Your perceptions are likely not as cut and dry as you present them. Perhaps you seek a solitary point of view at the expense of complexity, accepting the opposite of what you wish for to avoid grasping at smoke. But what if such a task is insurmountable, to simple for a human mind to feast on for more than a little while? Perhaps best to turn from such a path or find ones self reduced and gnawing at old bones. You don't have to make up your mind about these things. Hold a dual nature and be curious about it all. If someone tells you to come down off the fence you can tell them to fuck off, with measured firmness knowing they are as human as you.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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nuentoter
conduit



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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Rahz]
#22178363 - 09/02/15 02:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The answer is "why not?" just as much as it is "why?".
The void........ The absence
the place where all things are equal in their nothingness. The place where because things in any sense of the word (physical things, mental things, spiritual things, whatever things) make no impact.
The realization and acceptance of losing all these things and the attachment to them is an experience that is profound as you have found out. Now you cannot be discriminate about it though, so throw all your feelings of depression or sorrow into the void because they belong there alongside joy and happiness in the end, right?
So now we toss out all the purposes behind the negativity, and since you've already tossed the positive, we're left at neutrality.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
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Re: Trouble with Nihilism [Re: Thanatos10]
#22178657 - 09/02/15 03:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: But the point is that if it doesn't matter why do it in the first place?
u dont know that forsure tho. u're just making assumptions at this point.
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