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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: Avatar5]
#22166669 - 08/30/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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soooo…when u do work, do u feel a breeze blowing out from the HEPA, or do u feel shit sucking in? its really different dude. u would need a HEPA filtered room to use what ur suggesting, but even then, it makes more sense to blow out, not suck in.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: Avatar5]
#22166679 - 08/30/15 09:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Avatar5 said: I understand what your saying. What I'm trying to articulate is this paticular device is used to insure sterile conditions for subculturing on agar. I
Then u either are using the wrong term, u are using the wrong kind of machine.....
Quote:
Avatar5 said: Unless you are working in a biochemistry lab or at the cdc or have a budget of over 100,000 dollars I think it's better then what 99% of private homes would have.
I have a 99-100% success rate using a $30 SAB....define "better"....you could have done the same thing with the same success rate(if not better) with a LFH, and not a fume hood.....
If I had a LFH my success rate would be the same....maybe a few less contaminated dishes, but when I get a contaminated plate it's usually from laziness in my sterile technique anyways....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (08/30/15 09:03 PM)
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Avatar5
Stranger


Registered: 08/23/15
Posts: 38
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: PussyFart]
#22166722 - 08/30/15 09:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PussyFart said:
Quote:
Avatar5 said: I understand what your saying. What I'm trying to articulate is this paticular device is used to insure sterile conditions for subculturing on agar. I
Then u either are using the wrong term, u are using the wrong kind of machine.....
Quote:
Avatar5 said: Unless you are working in a biochemistry lab or at the cdc or have a budget of over 100,000 dollars I think it's better then what 99% of private homes would have.
I have a 99-100% success rate using a $30 SAB....define "better"....you could have done the same thing with the same success rate(if not better) with a LFH, and not a fume hood.....
If I had a LFH my success rate would be the same....maybe a few less contaminated dishes, but when I get a contaminated plate it's usually from laziness in my sterile technique anyways....
It's all a mute point I didn't use this anyway. Lol I don't know what the whole discussion was even about.In reality I suppose Im just questioning the true effectiveness of a 30 dollar sab, I have a strong feeling a quick inoculation in virtually any room without much airflow will have the same chance of success. However I could easily be wrong...
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 22 hours
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: Avatar5]
#22166753 - 08/30/15 09:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Avatar5 said: It's all a mute point I didn't use this anyway. Lol I don't know what the whole discussion was even about.
It was about this....the thing that u said u used every day, and then that u didn't.... 
Quote:
Avatar5 said: Don't be fooled I've worked with a fume hood and agar for my job daily
Quote:
Avatar5 said: In reality I suppose Im just questioning the true effectiveness of a 30 dollar sab, I have a strong feeling a quick inoculation in virtually any room without much airflow will have the same chance of success. However I could easily be wrong...
I do everything in my SAB, and I do not use syringes...I pour plates, clone, do G2G transfers, and all other sterile work in it....it has never failed me.
If the air is still, contams can't blow on to your work.....now do 10 g2g transfers in open air, and 10 in a SAB, and you will easily tell it's effectiveness....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: PussyFart]
#22166774 - 08/30/15 09:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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open air is risky at best. u can fuck with ports and shit. but ports can fail over time and in full. best to stick with what mushroom growers have used forever….good sterile technique, be it a hood or SAB. even McKenna's MMGG requires an SAB, and that shit is older than stamets teenage cum rags
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Avatar5
Stranger


Registered: 08/23/15
Posts: 38
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: PussyFart]
#22166840 - 08/30/15 09:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PussyFart said:
Quote:
Avatar5 said: It's all a mute point I didn't use this anyway. Lol I don't know what the whole discussion was even about.
It was about this....the thing that u said u used every day, and then that u didn't.... 
Quote:
Avatar5 said: Don't be fooled I've worked with a fume hood and agar for my job daily
Quote:
Avatar5 said: In reality I suppose Im just questioning the true effectiveness of a 30 dollar sab, I have a strong feeling a quick inoculation in virtually any room without much airflow will have the same chance of success. However I could easily be wrong...
I do everything in my SAB, and I do not use syringes...I pour plates, clone, do G2G transfers, and all other sterile work in it....it has never failed me.
If the air is still, contams can't blow on to your work.....now do 10 g2g transfers in open air, and 10 in a SAB, and you will easily tell it's effectiveness....
I'm not saying that it's not effective I'm just questioning how effective Given the crude methods employed. The reason I didn't use the hood is because it's at my workplace. Again I feel this is simply much too risky. The strange thing is I'm getting all of this negative feedback over what I admitted was a terrible part of the tek. However if you read the tek it clearly states that there is a "good" chance of success either way. Let's just assume good is 50 percent. Now with 4 jars that's fairly decent that at least one will grow. Again this is my very first time ever doing this if it fails the only one to blame is myself. However I've still had fun either way and I can always try again.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: blindingleaf]
#22166853 - 08/30/15 09:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The SAB is a lot more useful than just being in a closet. Using proper procedure you would be spraying the walls of the SAB with water, soapy or plain, putting all your stuff inside, and then waiting at least 30 minutes with all sources of moving air shut off for all the air to become still enough that everything will stick to the water droplets and a large amount of the air in the box will be more or less sterile, as well as still.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20048771#20048771
I highly recommend this design and size in particular.
I made mine a little weird by adding some extra arm-shield to it with ducting, but it's otherwise the same.

I do use the towel as well, I just snapped that right after I finished it up. It's worked pretty damn well for about a year. Any failures can be attributed to me rushing or putting my hands over my work.
We're talking stuff that's open for about 3-4 seconds at a time, with no contams, it's reliable.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: Avatar5]
#22166866 - 08/30/15 09:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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u should have fun. u should always try again.
but the important point here is to understand the difference, and how it applies to what we do as mushroom growers. taking ambient air, jamming into a smallish box to with exhaust (the HEPA with high SP) LESS than incoming blower power, is a positive pressure box, not negative pressure. this positive pressure, is then forced out (evenly if u build hood correctly) thru HEPA filter, blowing towards u, preferably at at least 150FPM per minute. anything on ur shit is blown towards u, the rest of the room is (for all intents and purposes with a good hood) irrelevant. good. if it was opposite, anything weird behind u can be sucked into ur area. u don't want that.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 22 hours
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: Inocuole]
#22166897 - 08/30/15 09:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: and then waiting at least 30 minutes
I wait like 2 minutes...it doesnt take that long for the air in the box to settle.....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Avatar5
Stranger


Registered: 08/23/15
Posts: 38
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: Inocuole]
#22166909 - 08/30/15 09:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: The SAB is a lot more useful than just being in a closet. Using proper procedure you would be spraying the walls of the SAB with water, soapy or plain, putting all your stuff inside, and then waiting at least 30 minutes with all sources of moving air shut off for all the air to become still enough that everything will stick to the water droplets and a large amount of the air in the box will be more or less sterile, as well as still.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20048771#20048771
I highly recommend this design and size in particular.
I made mine a little weird by adding some extra arm-shield to it with ducting, but it's otherwise the same.

I do use the towel as well, I just snapped that right after I finished it up. It's worked pretty damn well for about a year. Any failures can be attributed to me rushing or putting my hands over my work.
We're talking stuff that's open for about 3-4 seconds at a time, with no contams, it's reliable.
I have no doubt it is. I'm actually almost in tears laughing at this whole situation. everyone here seems really nice and quiet bright but this defense of a plastic box with holes cut into it is almost too much. think right how big is a spore? Maybe 1-10 micrometers? So when you insert yours hands into this contraption is ther no space between yours hands and the box? Did you not just push air into it by inserting your hands? it's my opinion your real protection Is not the box but the 3-4 secs. Let's say for instance in that time 1-10 spores from the ambient air float in. So one container gets 1, one gets 7, one gets 4, one gets 10. Now how many spores from this spore syringe are there? Probably tens or hundreds of thousands. So the chances seem decent to me at least one container will be ok provided the media and spores were gtg.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: Avatar5]
#22166917 - 08/30/15 09:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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ur concern is valid, but the results are not congruent with that concern.
we can talk science all day. results matter more though.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 22 hours
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: blindingleaf]
#22166920 - 08/30/15 09:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
blindingleaf said: we can talk science all day. results matter more though.
It works for 99% of the people that use it properly.....thats the real science....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (08/30/15 09:56 PM)
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: PussyFart]
#22166923 - 08/30/15 09:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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i agree. im saying what some people fear as far as SAB's go makes sense. but then, when u use one correctly, those concerns go out the window.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 22 hours
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: blindingleaf]
#22166930 - 08/30/15 09:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was agreeing with you lol.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: PussyFart]
#22166957 - 08/30/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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aye chihuhua!! i've read wrong
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: Avatar5]
#22167005 - 08/30/15 10:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you think you're better than a plastic box with holes in it, there's the real problem.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: Inocuole]
#22167013 - 08/30/15 10:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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all u need is a plastic tote. seriously. spores + plastic tote = retire early. u can buy some more stuff and retire earlier, but i digress….
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: Inocuole]
#22167019 - 08/30/15 10:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mine is just a cheap ass 56qt sterilite. I drilled a bunch of small holes in a circle for the arms, then cut it out with a sharp boning knife at an extreme angle. Accomplished a lot with that POS.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Avatar5
Stranger


Registered: 08/23/15
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: Inocuole]
#22167023 - 08/30/15 10:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't think I'm better than a plastic box. I think open Air is definitely worse. But by how much? That's the point I am trying to make. I'm excited to see what happens, either way I think I'm upsetting people by talking bad about the SAB. Either way hope you guys are in for the ride.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
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Re: Need Advice, unique situation. [Re: Avatar5]
#22167031 - 08/30/15 10:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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do what u want man, do what works for you. but…we grow booms indoors. sterile technique can get u far. its easier to have sterile technique in SAB, ESPECIALLY g2g.
if open air works for you, ok cool. i will wonder how it works for u in 5 years. and if it still works, i will wonder what kind of set up u run, and how often u run it.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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