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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 1 minute
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Astral Pain said: It's amazing how liberals think that companies have this secret vault of excess cash that the can just shell out, and this cash will somehow find it's way into the pockets of all the middle class and poor. That increased expenditure will result in the poor and middle class picking up the difference. I read a story where the owner of a pizza company in California decided to in crease the minimum wage early. His business is down 25%, he can no longer stay open for lunch, and he fears having to shut his shop down after 18 years. The problem is he's charging $30 for a pizza now.
http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/08/17/california-15-minimum-wage-30-per-pizza-massive-fail/
That's what taxing and charging companies more will do in a nutshell, and it drives me nuts reading the pejorative term "trickle down" and thinking taxing the rich will do the poor any good at all. It's the opposite.
A fifth of workers are out of work, so if all of us employed just took a 20% pay cut we'd all be employed!
Right? Economics isn't a zero sum game, dude. Taking money from the rich doesn't mean some school for deaf puppies has to shut down. Otherwise every nation with higher taxes would have a shittier quality of life, when in a lot of cases the opposite is true.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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KauaiOrca said:
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qman said:
It's impossible to imagine a scenario where a labor intensive small business becomes unprofitable when it's forced to move wages 25-50% higher?
I don't really care about the pizza if it was a profitable business just a few months ago.
In my town, you can get the same sized pizza at one place for $9.99 and another for $28.
You do the math. More often than not, the place selling the for $28 is busier.
That didn't answer my question. The fact that some restaurants charge more or less for a somewhat similiar product has nothing to do with the discussion.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Astral Pain said: It's amazing how liberals think that companies have this secret vault of excess cash that the can just shell out, and this cash will somehow find it's way into the pockets of all the middle class and poor. That increased expenditure will result in the poor and middle class picking up the difference. I read a story where the owner of a pizza company in California decided to in crease the minimum wage early. His business is down 25%, he can no longer stay open for lunch, and he fears having to shut his shop down after 18 years. The problem is he's charging $30 for a pizza now.
http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/08/17/california-15-minimum-wage-30-per-pizza-massive-fail/
That's what taxing and charging companies more will do in a nutshell, and it drives me nuts reading the pejorative term "trickle down" and thinking taxing the rich will do the poor any good at all. It's the opposite.
A fifth of workers are out of work, so if all of us employed just took a 20% pay cut we'd all be employed!
Right? Economics isn't a zero sum game, dude. Taking money from the rich doesn't mean some school for deaf puppies has to shut down. Otherwise every nation with higher taxes would have a shittier quality of life, when in a lot of cases the opposite is true.
"Taking money from the rich"
How is a individual restaurant owner who's going out of business, rich?
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Anchor Baby [Re: qman]
#22151535 - 08/27/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That is the loony left for you. The fish thinks that if a rich person buys something, that hurts the poor. He wants ceo's to work for min wage, claims to be one too. Warmed over commie nonsense. The nutty left has been in charge of this country for too long, we need grown ups to start running things. Offer the bumbler a severance package if he will leave early and let trump take over.
>"Taking money from the rich"
The fish is so poor everyone looks rich to him. Must be all that socialism.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 3 hours, 24 minutes
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starfire_xes said: OK,Big Bad, and RXB: How man foreign countries have you visited? How many foreign countries have you lived in? How many foreign languages can you speak? How many of the US States have you visited? How mich education do you all have?
I'm curious as to why you all believe you know shit about the world. Maybe you do. If you haven't got a significant amount of world experience, then I suggest you come back and tell me how great the fucking world outside the US is after you all are out of diapers and have an education.
I won't even dignify your stupid ass ad hominem bullshit with a response. I don't need to validate myself personally to you to make a clear argument.
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Stonehenge said: They are typical liberals.
Same to you.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Anchor Baby [Re: qman]
#22151559 - 08/27/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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qman said:
How is a individual restaurant owner who's going out of business, rich?
In the example you keep referencing, the business owner decided to increase wages and he couldn't make it work. So what? Running a business is hard. He didn't have the quality difference to compete. His screw up.
100% guarantee you that there are restaurants all over the country that have wildly different compensation systems with some that succeed and others don't but if you think that the key is that the guy that pays his people the least is the one that succeeds most, you'd be wrong.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Stonehenge said: That is the loony left for you. The fish thinks that if a rich person buys something, that hurts the poor. He wants ceo's to work for min wage, claims to be one too. Warmed over commie nonsense. The nutty left has been in charge of this country for too long, we need grown ups to start running things. Offer the bumbler a severance package if he will leave early and let trump take over.
>"Taking money from the rich"
The fish is so poor everyone looks rich to him. Must be all that socialism.
Every claim in this post is a lie. Is that how you roll? I have no problem with rich spending money and it does help the economy and, in fact wish they would spend more instead of squirreling it away in some off shore account somewhere.. I said CEO's should make millions.
So, now you're a liar too. Got it.
My criticism of the system in the US has to do with the super wealthy ... the multi billionaires. You keep avoiding that.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (08/27/15 01:56 PM)
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 5 hours, 36 minutes
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
qman said:
How is a individual restaurant owner who's going out of business, rich?
In the example you keep referencing, the business owner decided to increase wages and he couldn't make it work. So what? Running a business is hard. He didn't have the quality difference to compete. His screw up.
100% guarantee you that there are restaurants all over the country that have wildly different compensation systems with some that succeed and others don't but if you think that the key is that the guy that pays his people the least is the one that succeeds most, you'd be wrong.
In most instances the corporate powers are the ones that favor the higher minimum wage, they can absorb the higher labor costs while many of the individual business owners can't survive it. The corporate companies can patiently wait and grab more market share, it's truly a brilliant strategy.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Anchor Baby [Re: qman]
#22151749 - 08/27/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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qman said:
In most instances the corporate powers are the ones that favor the higher minimum wage, they can absorb the higher labor costs while many of the individual business owners can't survive it. The corporate companies can patiently wait and grab more market share, it's truly a brilliant strategy.
I know plenty of small business owners that wouldn't even consider paying their people minimum wage. Business owners are free to pick their markets, products and whether to compete on price or quality or both. If you pick a strategy of competing mostly on price, then you're going to have a tougher go of it.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
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luvdemshrooms said: When it's illegal... let me know. In the meantime, I'll keep laughing at the stupidity of your ideas.
Hey, humor's great ... whatever gets you off, bud. Laughter is healing. I've yet to actually see you put up an idea ... or humor for that matter.
Still laughing. Putting up shitty ideas doesn't do you any favors.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 3 hours, 24 minutes
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Re: Anchor Baby [Re: qman]
#22151773 - 08/27/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
qman said:
How is a individual restaurant owner who's going out of business, rich?
In the example you keep referencing, the business owner decided to increase wages and he couldn't make it work. So what? Running a business is hard. He didn't have the quality difference to compete. His screw up.
100% guarantee you that there are restaurants all over the country that have wildly different compensation systems with some that succeed and others don't but if you think that the key is that the guy that pays his people the least is the one that succeeds most, you'd be wrong.
In most instances the corporate powers are the ones that favor the higher minimum wage, they can absorb the higher labor costs while many of the individual business owners can't survive it. The corporate companies can patiently wait and grab more market share, it's truly a brilliant strategy.
I have seen innumerable articles of Walmart, McDonalds, and other giant companies that primarily pay the minimum wage being adamantly opposed to wage hikes. Many small restaurants do a lot better when the minimum wage goes up, because people can afford to go out to eat more often.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 5 hours, 36 minutes
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
qman said:
In most instances the corporate powers are the ones that favor the higher minimum wage, they can absorb the higher labor costs while many of the individual business owners can't survive it. The corporate companies can patiently wait and grab more market share, it's truly a brilliant strategy.
I know plenty of small business owners that wouldn't even consider paying their people minimum wage. Business owners are free to pick their markets, products and whether to compete on price or quality or both. If you pick a strategy of competing mostly on price, then you're going to have a tougher go of it.
"pick a strategy of competing mostly on price"
Retail competition revolves around price.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 5 hours, 36 minutes
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
qman said:
How is a individual restaurant owner who's going out of business, rich?
In the example you keep referencing, the business owner decided to increase wages and he couldn't make it work. So what? Running a business is hard. He didn't have the quality difference to compete. His screw up.
100% guarantee you that there are restaurants all over the country that have wildly different compensation systems with some that succeed and others don't but if you think that the key is that the guy that pays his people the least is the one that succeeds most, you'd be wrong.
In most instances the corporate powers are the ones that favor the higher minimum wage, they can absorb the higher labor costs while many of the individual business owners can't survive it. The corporate companies can patiently wait and grab more market share, it's truly a brilliant strategy.
I have seen innumerable articles of Walmart, McDonalds, and other giant companies that primarily pay the minimum wage being adamantly opposed to wage hikes. Many small restaurants do a lot better when the minimum wage goes up, because people can afford to go out to eat more often.
Walmart and McDonalds can operate many stores at a operating loss for many years while the small business can't, don't buy the hype. The corporate interests know exactly what they're doing when it comes to the higher minimum wage.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 3 hours, 24 minutes
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Re: Anchor Baby [Re: qman]
#22151884 - 08/27/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
qman said:
In most instances the corporate powers are the ones that favor the higher minimum wage, they can absorb the higher labor costs while many of the individual business owners can't survive it. The corporate companies can patiently wait and grab more market share, it's truly a brilliant strategy.
I know plenty of small business owners that wouldn't even consider paying their people minimum wage. Business owners are free to pick their markets, products and whether to compete on price or quality or both. If you pick a strategy of competing mostly on price, then you're going to have a tougher go of it.
"pick a strategy of competing mostly on price"
Retail competition revolves around price.
Not entirely. It depends on what you're buying, but low price and high quality are both niches within any market.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 3 hours, 24 minutes
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Re: Anchor Baby [Re: qman]
#22151908 - 08/27/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The hype is the exact opposite. The hype is that raising minimum wage kills small business, and its a lie, which has been proven wrong by a large proportion of economic studies.
McDonalds loses on quality to the mom and pop diner down the road. When people can afford to go elsewhere for takeout, they will. That's just one facet of this issue.
The high minimum wage in Australia, Germany and Denmark aren't killing those countries, and they have plenty of small businesses just like we do.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 5 hours, 36 minutes
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: The hype is the exact opposite. The hype is that raising minimum wage kills small business, and its a lie, which has been proven wrong by a large proportion of economic studies.
McDonalds loses on quality to the mom and pop diner down the road. When people can afford to go elsewhere for takeout, they will. That's just one facet of this issue.
The high minimum wage in Australia, Germany and Denmark aren't killing those countries, and they have plenty of small businesses just like we do.
You do realize that corporate interests have been know to say one thing and believe/do the complete opposite? Why do you take everything they spew at face value?
As far as those other countries, that maybe works for them, not everyone else. You do realize the stronger the economy and tighter labor market makes the biggest difference when it comes to minimum wage rates?
Why doesn't China, Mexico, Vietnam, India, ect. use the same rate as Australia if it's the recipe for economic success? Because it wouldn't work there!!
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 3 hours, 24 minutes
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Re: Anchor Baby [Re: qman]
#22152070 - 08/27/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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America isn't fucking china. We are far more similar to the countries thay have high minimum wages than the countries that dont. I know people on the right like to point at Africa and China and express how much better we're doing than them, but I would rather compare ourselves to countries of similar status to ours.
We're the wealthiest country in the world. You honestly believe America couldn't handle a wage hike? I know billionaires work hard and everything, but they can afford to give up a few pennies on the dollar, just my 2 cents.
I want to see your evidence that wage hikes hurt the economy. I've seen plenty of studies that show no net job loss from increasing the minimum wage, but I've yet to anything demonstrating your argument. Its an argument against the poor, and that is all it is. A side-argument of trickle-downers.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Lets see those studies you always talk about but never show? We could use the laugh. Why is china not like usa? We are #1 they are #2. Africa is down the shithole because of who is running those countries. Under white rule they did great, now, not so great.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 3 hours, 24 minutes
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Lets see those studies you always talk about but never show? We could use the laugh. Why is china not like usa? We are #1 they are #2. Africa is down the shithole because of who is running those countries. Under white rule they did great, now, not so great.
Oh yeah, they did great. You're such a fucking racist, how can you even pretend to be otherwise?
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rxb
n00b-sabot



Registered: 08/24/13
Posts: 9,534
Loc: FREE PSYCHONAUTICA
Last seen: 5 seconds
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: OK,Big Bad, and RXB: How man foreign countries have you visited? How many foreign countries have you lived in? How many foreign languages can you speak? How many of the US States have you visited? How mich education do you all have?
I'm curious as to why you all believe you know shit about the world. Maybe you do. If you haven't got a significant amount of world experience, then I suggest you come back and tell me how great the fucking world outside the US is after you all are out of diapers and have an education.
i've done a large amount of travel for work.
pleasure wise, 4 maybe 5 different countries.
my best friends live in Europe.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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