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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: Ezuma]
#22136501 - 08/24/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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One simply can't go around accepting all hypotheticals as valid. At a certain point, if you want to have any cursory functional grasp of the world, judgements are gonna be made and sure, beliefs slip in, but they should I think be based on at least experience and evidence, and they shouldn't necessarily be unshakable or set in stone, whether its a dismissal of god or not.
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: akira_akuma]
#22136509 - 08/24/15 05:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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XYou are arguing a very unimportant point. So what is a lack of beleaf is technically a belief?
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SurReality
PsychAdemic


Registered: 12/21/06
Posts: 11,808
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: akira_akuma]
#22136511 - 08/24/15 05:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
money isn't a belief, BTW. 
no but it is still something you can have or not have.
-------------------- ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary) PodCast
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: XYou are arguing a very unimportant point. So what is a lack of beleaf is technically a belief?
it's not so unimportant. i keep hear self-proclaimed Atheists whom say they "believe in nothing yo" and that "my Atheism isn't a belief is exactly the lack of a believe bro"
which is just... hilarious and buggering to me, a sensible mind. i'm WORSE than an Atheist! i get bugged by truly insurmountable shit!
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: psychodelia]
#22136534 - 08/24/15 05:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Science can't prove or disprove religion, it's an entirely different realm than the one we live in. You can't observe or measure it so it's kind of a pointless debate. We will or won't find out when we die.
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bukkake


Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: fapjack]
#22136542 - 08/24/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Bro, I'm so dank on my agnostic game I don't even talk or think about it.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: SurReality]
#22136574 - 08/24/15 05:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SurReality said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
money isn't a belief, BTW. 
no but it is still something you can have or not have.
yeah, but if you're to believe in "nothing", than you wouldn't be stating your beliefs here would you? you can distinctly believe in the lack of a God, because of lack of evidence, or because you simply don't want to. but that doesn't mean you do not believe that, rather than know it factually. you have to belief in something in this case because you don't know for certain the claim that there is no God/is a God is truthful and factual, hence it, like in many other belief systems, is a orthodox belief, and Atheism at large is a orthodox belief structure.
an example of non-belief would be something like: the sky has no clouds. or more to the point here (because the ideal of non-belief being silly is another point altogether): i do not believe elephants are named well enough for me; or i don't believe in adrenaline sports, fuck that; or even more to the point; i do not believe in an intelligent creator. you don't believe in it, and you could, or might not, be correct. it is a non-belief. you could say that if there was one, he's sure dumb as shit to me! not intelligent, that's for sure!
not there is NO creator, however, because it's a non-fact, hence it is a belief if you think there is no creator where there is no evidence for or against that possibility.
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: bukkake]
#22136595 - 08/24/15 05:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Inconclusive is inconclusive.
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: pfxtc]
#22136599 - 08/24/15 05:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
pfxtc said:
Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:
pfxtc said: I saw one theory that a 4 dimensional star simply existed in some other multi/universe and supernova'd and thus the big bang occurred and our 3D space is inside of it's singularity.
That blew my mind. I think its exactly how all this came about. I have always thought something like that and never knew how to put it into words...so I must thank you. Just genius..
http://www.nature.com/news/did-a-hyper-black-hole-spawn-the-universe-1.13743 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/physics/collapsing-4-d-star-could-have-spawned-universe/
Wow...just amazing.
If its true, then that's why scientists have so much trouble defining the universe...because we are living in an impossible world that cant be perceived accurately. I really like that 2nd link's theory..
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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SurReality
PsychAdemic


Registered: 12/21/06
Posts: 11,808
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: akira_akuma]
#22136612 - 08/24/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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yea if you believe in nothing then you have a belief. duh
but if you don't belief... then you don't have a belief.
people say "i don't believe you" it doesn't mean "i believe you are lying" it just means they are not convinced.
-------------------- ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary) PodCast
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pfxtc
RUEXP?


Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 21,166
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:
pfxtc said:
Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:
pfxtc said: I saw one theory that a 4 dimensional star simply existed in some other multi/universe and supernova'd and thus the big bang occurred and our 3D space is inside of it's singularity.
That blew my mind. I think its exactly how all this came about. I have always thought something like that and never knew how to put it into words...so I must thank you. Just genius..
http://www.nature.com/news/did-a-hyper-black-hole-spawn-the-universe-1.13743 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/physics/collapsing-4-d-star-could-have-spawned-universe/
Wow...just amazing.
If its true, then that's why scientists have so much trouble defining the universe...because we are living in an impossible world that cant be perceived accurately. I really like that 2nd link's theory..
When you look back towards the beginning of time every theory falls apart - some say the description of such event is simply not possible by science since such an event is basically impossible of being 'looked at'.
-------------------- koods said: Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus. Life-long trip report
Edited by pfxtc (08/24/15 05:41 PM)
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SirShroomsAlott
Howdy



Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
Loc: United States
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Peace and love liberal? Nah I'm just not young and naive enough.to.think I can control people's minds and beliefs.
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Swyfty Swyf
Shrugsy Shrugs


Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 7,113
Loc: North Alabama
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:
pfxtc said:
Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:
pfxtc said: I saw one theory that a 4 dimensional star simply existed in some other multi/universe and supernova'd and thus the big bang occurred and our 3D space is inside of it's singularity.
That blew my mind. I think its exactly how all this came about. I have always thought something like that and never knew how to put it into words...so I must thank you. Just genius..
http://www.nature.com/news/did-a-hyper-black-hole-spawn-the-universe-1.13743 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/physics/collapsing-4-d-star-could-have-spawned-universe/
Wow...just amazing.
If its true, then that's why scientists have so much trouble defining the universe...because we are living in an impossible world that cant be perceived accurately. I really like that 2nd link's theory..
Just because scientists and physicists have trouble explaining the origin of the universe doesn't mean they are incompetent, They are just they only ones looking for valid explanations without the magic wand of a Creator. Physics and M Theory are some of the greatest thinkers most complicated concepts. We have proof of the existence of what we call dark matter and that can't be rightly explained under the umbrella of physics as we know it. The origin of the universe is exponentially more complex. At least scientists don't claim to have the answer without the appropriate proof
-------------------- If you build it they will shrug.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: SurReality]
#22136656 - 08/24/15 05:43 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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you can't not-believe in something unsubstantiated and then decide you know what you do not-believe, is all i am saying. the certainty is that no one will know about God ever, so it's pointless to be either religious or Atheist. they are systems of redundancy and diminishing returns.
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pfxtc
RUEXP?


Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 21,166
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: akira_akuma]
#22136664 - 08/24/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: you can't not-believe in something unsubstantiated and then decide you know what you do not-believe, is all i am saying. the certainty is that no one will know about God ever, so it's pointless to be either religious or Atheist. they are systems of redundancy and diminishing returns.
We very well might know about God after we die, if there is such a thing. It would be quite scientific to actually meet God.
-------------------- koods said: Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus. Life-long trip report
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: pfxtc]
#22136694 - 08/24/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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well, until God sends us an E-mail with proof, or perhaps a giant finger that scrawls the message in a cornfield (and we don't mistake it for aliens! ) then we'll never know if God is a thing or just an idea.
fingers crossed! humans kinda suck ass anyway.
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SurReality
PsychAdemic


Registered: 12/21/06
Posts: 11,808
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: akira_akuma]
#22136696 - 08/24/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: you can't not-believe in something unsubstantiated and then decide you know what you do not-believe, is all i am saying. the certainty is that no one will know about God ever, so it's pointless to be either religious or Atheist. they are systems of redundancy and diminishing returns.
you are either refusing to actually understand what i'm telling you or just can't. talking about redundancy, fuck its like talking to a broken record.
-------------------- ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary) PodCast
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pfxtc
RUEXP?


Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 21,166
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#22136709 - 08/24/15 05:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: well, until God sends us an E-mail with proof, or perhaps a giant finger that scrawls the message in a cornfield (and we don't mistake it for aliens! ) then we'll never know if God is a thing or just an idea.
fingers crossed! humans kinda suck ass anyway.
I just love hearing about people whining about the future of Earth. Earth will be just fine without us if it ever comes to that.
-------------------- koods said: Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus. Life-long trip report
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SurReality
PsychAdemic


Registered: 12/21/06
Posts: 11,808
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: pfxtc]
#22136738 - 08/24/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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lol yea its funny when its worded that way. don't wanna sound too selfish if we word it accurately: lets not fuck up the human environment because we might die.
-------------------- ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary) PodCast
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: I am an intelligent atheist [Re: SurReality]
#22136768 - 08/24/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SurReality said: you are either refusing to actually understand what i'm telling you or just can't. talking about redundancy, fuck its like talking to a broken record.
funny, i was just thinking the same thing about you.
look: fact: you cannot "not-believe" in something that you cannot substantiate as a fact.
you can believe that there is no God, but that isn't the lack of a belief in God, it's a belief that there is no god.
the "lack of a belief" would be more akin to "i don't believe in Global Warming". you simply don't believe that Global Warming exists.
God however is a misnomer of immense proportion. you cannot believe in it, nor can you "not-believe" in it, just the same. it's the same inherent guess at the unknown, a guess which isn't factual or even around to be factualized or disproven. it's nothing, and you can't believe nor disbelieve in nothing or nothingness, as it is what it is, nothing. you literally have to believe in SOMETHING at these cross roads, because you are questioning the direct unknowingness of the direct opposite of 'something'. you can't know, hence you can't know what to to believe; you can only guess which one sounds more favorable to your perceptions on what to think about about the notion/idea of god.
jeez, how many times can i say the same things with different words. this is slightly challenging.
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