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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum] * 1
    #22140533 - 08/25/15 11:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Some claim the "hippie" and psychedelic counter culture were inventions of the CIA...




Yeah because the CIA loves anti-establishment anti-war social revolution types:rolleyes:


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22144746 - 08/26/15 07:35 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Allen Ginsberg, Ken kesey, Robert Hunter, and many more were first given LSD via MKULTRA programs...
At Menlo park, where kesey was first dosed, they had a stash of LSD, alpha-methyltryptamine, and mescaline get stolen, coincidently shortly after, these compounds became available on "furthur" (keseys traveling acid test bus) so it's likely kesey or one of his friends robbed Menlo park...

Through MKULTRA the government turned hundreds of thousands of people on to LSD...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Midnight_Climax

There's a good deal of people out there who claim that the CIA used psychedelics to neutralize the radical political scene of the 1960s...

There's another group who claim all the hippie icons were cia operatives, and that laurel canyon was being controlled by a government movie studio called "lookout mountain"...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2GjY8DN-7I


Because Sidney gotlieb (high ranking CIA agent) was known to dress up like a beatnik and go around San Francisco's hip areas giving LSD to strangers (he called LSD "stormy" in his notes because of the varied and wild reactions it induced from person to person), I'm not at all doubting that the CIA had agents in the hippie movement, or that some of the famous musicians and movie stars may have been CIA agents or working for CIA agents, and may have even created the psychedelic movement itself...but I'm also not willing to fully buy into the conspiracy theorists...These are interesting ideas, but I would take them with a grain of salt.

There's some pretty bizzare theories out there, "Jim Morrison is rush Limbaugh" is one of my favorites in the absurd category...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZYTAWRyyO8
Lmfao! This guy has this wanna-be "gangsta" mannerism to his speech which makes it that much more funny...

We will never know how deep MKULTRA went because all the records were destroyed (except for a box of mislabeled files that we have today) maybe the CIA did intentionally create the psychedelic movement and Jim Morrison and Tim Leary, etc.. were CIA operatives...Or maybe they were just giving this stuff out and as a result they blew some really creative minds who made it big in the counter-culture...

History is never accurate, so I love to explore all possibilities, I also believe that the powers in control historically have never been honest about the extent to which they manipulate populations they control, but I'm sure it's far deeper than we expect, when the Nazis fell the United states began to release information regarding their propaganda machine, the funny thing is the United states uses these same methods of manipulation...

MKULTRA is NOT theory, it's confirmed fact, and has always been a fascination of mine...(but you must have a thick filter, there's a lot of nonsense out there)

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22144777 - 08/26/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Some claim the "hippie" and psychedelic counter culture were inventions of the CIA...




Yeah because the CIA loves anti-establishment anti-war social revolution types:rolleyes:




I said SOME claim this, not I claim this, and their logic behind it was that they took groups who were politically active, and turned them onto psychedelics so their interests would shift from radical overthrow of the government to spirituality...

As quoted here:  They neutralized my generation by turning social activists into "flower children" advocating "peace and love."
The mantra of the age was "Tune in, Turn on and Drop Out". (Qouted from http://arcticcompass.blogspot.com/2008/04/who-remembers-1960s-how.html )

-E. Borodin


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Offlinejesserayhatchtrue
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22144865 - 08/26/15 08:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

probaly cause tripin makes you superhuman


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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22145043 - 08/26/15 08:49 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Some claim the "hippie" and psychedelic counter culture were inventions of the CIA...




Yeah because the CIA loves anti-establishment anti-war social revolution types:rolleyes:




I said SOME claim this, not I claim this, and their logic behind it was that they took groups who were politically active, and turned them onto psychedelics so their interests would shift from radical overthrow of the government to spirituality...

As quoted here:  They neutralized my generation by turning social activists into "flower children" advocating "peace and love."
The mantra of the age was "Tune in, Turn on and Drop Out". (Qouted from http://arcticcompass.blogspot.com/2008/04/who-remembers-1960s-how.html )

-E. Borodin




That makes sense. I heard the CIA was behind the actual manufacturing and distribution of the lsd too as some kind of experiment.


Edited by saenchai (08/26/15 08:53 AM)


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: saenchai] * 1
    #22146054 - 08/26/15 11:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The last thing any establishment wants is to turn on, tune in and drop out:lol:  Yes they gave people LSD to study it's effects and find out if it was useful to them.  Maybe it could be in a little capsule you bite down on if your shot down so the enemy can't interrogate you or something like that.  They wanted to see if it had any real world applications.  Yes plenty of FBI agents go undercover in subversive political and social movements to find out what's going on and how threatening the group is.  Flower children are NOT what the CIA wanted at all.  They want hard working yes men dedicated to the status quo, not people who live in communes off the land.  The social and politcal movements of the 1960's were the biggest pain in the ass to nixon.  You can listen to his tapes and hear him complaining about it.


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OfflineRoyalSlurm
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: saenchai]
    #22146331 - 08/26/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

But also, the gov banned LSD & many other recreational substances to give them a reason to jail otherwise innocent, law-abiding counter-culture activists. At that point it would make sense that they would produce and distribute LSD for political movements so they could create methods to shut down the leaders of the movements.

On another note, I think our modern underground psychedelic community is being brainwashed by the mainstream hip-hop community (which is perpetuated by the media, which is controlled by the government). I cant tell you how many events Ive been to this summer where all the music is "Pop that pussy ho, pop that pop that pussy ho, pop that pussy ho, pop that pop that pussy ho." or some other terrible variation. On top of that, nearly everybody I know is now deep into cocaine and prescription pills -- it just randomly flooded the scene in 2013 and seems like its here to stay. A few years ago it all used to be futuristic think tank IDM and psychedelics.. now its all electronic repetitive gangster rap and mind-clouding substances. I used to complain about the rampant ketamine usage before this all came about.. now to be honest I miss it because that vibe was way better than coke, alcohol, and benzos.


Edited by RoyalSlurm (08/26/15 12:57 PM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: RoyalSlurm]
    #22147942 - 08/26/15 05:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RoyalSlurm said:
On another note, I think our modern underground psychedelic community is being brainwashed by the mainstream hip-hop community (which is perpetuated by the media, which is controlled by the government). I cant tell you how many events Ive been to this summer where all the music is "Pop that pussy ho, pop that pop that pussy ho, pop that pussy ho, pop that pop that pussy ho." or some other terrible variation. On top of that, nearly everybody I know is now deep into cocaine and prescription pills -- it just randomly flooded the scene in 2013 and seems like its here to stay. A few years ago it all used to be futuristic think tank IDM and psychedelics.. now its all electronic repetitive gangster rap and mind-clouding substances. I used to complain about the rampant ketamine usage before this all came about.. now to be honest I miss it because that vibe was way better than coke, alcohol, and benzos.




That's a sad truth man.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22148393 - 08/26/15 07:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I take issue with the word brainwashed. I think it's just humanity at work :shrug:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: saenchai]
    #22150059 - 08/27/15 06:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

saenchai said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Some claim the "hippie" and psychedelic counter culture were inventions of the CIA...




Yeah because the CIA loves anti-establishment anti-war social revolution types:rolleyes:




I said SOME claim this, not I claim this, and their logic behind it was that they took groups who were politically active, and turned them onto psychedelics so their interests would shift from radical overthrow of the government to spirituality...

As quoted here:  They neutralized my generation by turning social activists into "flower children" advocating "peace and love."
The mantra of the age was "Tune in, Turn on and Drop Out". (Qouted from http://arcticcompass.blogspot.com/2008/04/who-remembers-1960s-how.html )

-E. Borodin




That makes sense. I heard the CIA was behind the actual manufacturing and distribution of the lsd too as some kind of experiment.




The first LSD was manufactured by Albert Hoffman and sabdoz chemical, sandoz distributed the LSD until 1966.

The project you are referring to was MKULTRA, operation artichoke, operation midnight climax, etc..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22150132 - 08/27/15 07:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Whether they did it intentionally or not the government created the hippie movement...

The reason the politicos say the CIA used psychedelics to destroy  the political movement was because they got all these SDS and weatherman type kids to abandoned politics to become belly-gazing  drug fried vegetables, the political movement of 66 was a drug movement by 68...

Again, because of MKULTRA I have no doubt the CIA had agents fueling the counter culture...have you read the laurel canyon stuff? I don't fully buy it, but they do point out some really strange things...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2GjY8DN-7I

Jim Morrison is a bizzare character, one of my favorites, he came out if nowhere, his career lasted 4 short years, in which time he went from a skinny pretty boy, to a bearded poet, to a biker type, then died, only 2 people saw his body...

Jim's dad was directly involved with the incident that sparked the Viet nam war:

George Stephen Morrison (January 7, 1919 – November 17, 2008) was a United States Navy rear admiral (upper half) and naval aviator. Morrison was commander of the U.S. naval forces in the Gulf of Tonkin during the Gulf of Tonkin Incident of August 1964, which sparked an escalation of American involvement in the Vietnam War. -Wikipedia

It's funny how the man who was key in starting the war had a son who was key in leading the movement against it...during operation  "midnight climax" Sidney gotlieb (high ranking CIA Agent) would disguise himself as a hippie or beatnik and go through San Francisco's hip neighborhoods giving unsuspecting people LSD...so it's been proven that CIA opperatives did pretend to be hippies...

I really did not want to get into this here because there's so much information to go over, so sorry this is so long...

Why would they (the CIA) want people on drugs?

Because the CIA uses the drug market to fund foreign armies fighting our enemies. Iran contra was an example where they used weapons that were sold to Iran to fund contras in Nicaragua, all illegal, they preform this same practice with drugs, they sell drugs to fund foreign armies fighting our enemies without public knowledge, congressional approval, or need to take responsibility when these rebels turn on us.

This is why they would go to such lengths to promote the drug culture, it funds secret wars and neutralizes homegrown radicals...
FRANCE

According to Alfred W. McCoy in The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia, CIA arms, money, and disinformation enabled Corsican criminal syndicates in Marseille to wrestle control of labor unions from the Communist Party. The Corsicans gained political influence and control over the docks — ideal conditions for cementing a long-term partnership with mafia drug distributors, which turned Marseille into the postwar heroin capital of the Western world. Marseille’s first heroin laboratones were opened in 1951, only months after the Corsicans took over the waterfront.

EARLY 1950s, SOUTHEAST ASIA

The Nationalist Chinese army, organized by the CIA to wage war against Communist China, became the opium barons of The Golden Triangle (parts of Burma, Thailand and Laos), the world’s largest source of opium and heroin. Air America, the ClA’s principal airline proprietary, flew the drugs all over Southeast Asia. (See Christopher Robbins, Air America, Avon Books, 1985, chapter 9)

1950s to early 1970s, INDOCHINA During U.S. military involvement in Laos and other parts of Indochina, Air America flew opium and heroin throughout the area. Many Gl’s in Vietnam became addicts. A laboratory built at CIA headquarters in northern Laos was used to refine heroin. After a decade of American military intervention, Southeast Asia had become the source of 70 percent of the world’s illicit opium and the major supplier of raw materials for America’s booming heroin market.

1973-80, AUSTRALIA

The Nugan Hand Bank of Sydney was a CIA bank in all but name. Among its officers were a network of US generals, admirals and CIA men, including fommer CIA Director William Colby, who was also one of its lawyers. With branches in Saudi Arabia, Europe, Southeast Asia, South America and the U.S., Nugan Hand Bank financed drug trafficking, money laundering and international arms dealings. In 1980, amidst several mysterious deaths, the bank collapsed, $50 million in debt. (See Jonathan Kwitny, The Crimes of Patriots: A True Tale of Dope, Dirty Money and the CIA, W.W. Norton & Co., 1 987.)

1970s and 1980s, PANAMA

For more than a decade, Panamanian strongman Manuel Noriega was a highly paid CIA asset and collaborator, despite knowledge by U.S. drug authorities as early as 1971 that the general was heavily involved in drug trafficking and money laundering. Noriega facilitated ”guns-for-drugs” flights for the contras, providing protection and pilots, as well as safe havens for drug cartel otficials, and discreet banking facilities. U.S. officials, including then-ClA Director William Webster and several DEA officers, sent Noriega letters of praise for efforts to thwart drug trafficking (albeit only against competitors of his Medellin Cartel patrons). The U.S. government only turned against Noriega, invading Panama in December 1989 and kidnapping the general once they discovered he was providing intelligence and services to the Cubans and Sandinistas. Ironically drug trafficking through Panama increased after the US invasion. (John Dinges, Our Man in Panama, Random House, 1991; National Security Archive Documentation Packet The Contras, Cocaine, and Covert Operations.)

1980s, CENTRAL AMERICA

The San Jose Mercury News series documents just one thread of the interwoven operations linking the CIA, the contras and the cocaine cartels. Obsessed with overthrowing the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua, Reagan administration officials tolerated drug trafficking as long as the traffickers gave support to the contras. In 1989, the Senate Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics, and International Operations (the Kerry committee) concluded a three-year investigation by stating:

“There was substantial evidence of drug smuggling through the war zones on the part of individual Contras, Contra suppliers, Contra pilots mercenaries who worked with the Contras, and Contra supporters throughout the region…. U.S. officials involved in Central America failed to address the drug issue for fear of jeopardizing the war efforts against Nicaragua…. In each case, one or another agency of the U.S. govemment had intormation regarding the involvement either while it was occurring, or immediately thereafter…. Senior U S policy makers were nit immune to the idea that drug money was a perfect solution to the Contras’ funding problems.” (Drugs, Law Enforcement and Foreign Policy, a Report of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics and Intemational Operations, 1989)

In Costa Rica, which served as the “Southern Front” for the contras (Honduras being the Northern Front), there were several different ClA-contra networks involved in drug trafficking. In addition to those servicing the Meneses-Blandon operation detailed by the Mercury News, and Noriega’s operation, there was CIA operative John Hull, whose farms along Costa Rica’s border with Nicaragua were the main staging area for the contras. Hull and other ClA-connected contra supporters and pilots teamed up with George Morales, a major Miami-based Colombian drug trafficker who later admitted to giving $3 million in cash and several planes to contra leaders. In 1989, after the Costa Rica government indicted Hull for drug trafficking, a DEA-hired plane clandestinely and illegally flew the CIA operative to Miami, via Haiti. The US repeatedly thwarted Costa Rican efforts to extradite Hull back to Costa Rica to stand trial. Another Costa Rican-based drug ring involved a group of Cuban Amencans whom the CIA had hired as military trainers for the contras. Many had long been involved with the CIA and drug trafficking They used contra planes and a Costa Rican-based shnmp company, which laundered money for the CIA, to move cocaine to the U.S. Costa Rica was not the only route. Guatemala, whose military intelligence service — closely associated with the CIA — harbored many drug traffickers, according to the DEA, was another way station along the cocaine highway.

Additionally, the Medellin Cartel’s Miami accountant, Ramon Milian Rodriguez, testified that he funneled nearly $10 million to Nicaraguan contras through long-time CIA operative Felix Rodriguez, who was based at Ilopango Air Force Base in El Salvador. The contras provided both protection and infrastructure (planes, pilots, airstrips, warehouses, front companies and banks) to these ClA-linked drug networks. At least four transport companies under investigation for drug trafficking received US govemment contracts to carry non-lethal supplies to the contras. Southern Air Transport, “formerly” ClA-owned, and later under Pentagon contract, was involved in the drug running as well. Cocaine-laden planes flew to Florida, Texas, Louisiana and other locations, including several militarv bases Designated as ‘Contra Craft,” these shipments were not to be inspected. When some authority wasn’t clued in and made an arrest, powerful strings were pulled on behalf of dropping the case, acquittal, reduced sentence, or deportation.

1980s to early 1990s, AFGHANISTAN

ClA-supported Moujahedeen rebels engaged heavily in drug trafficking while fighting against the Soviet-supported govemment and its plans to reform the very backward Afghan society. The Agency’s principal client was Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, one of the leading druglords and leading heroin refiner. CIA supplied trucks and mules, which had carried arms into Afghanistan, were used to transport opium to laboratories along the Afghan Pakistan border. The output provided up to one half of the heroin used annually in the United States and three-quarters of that used in Western Europe. US officials admitted in 1990 that they had failed to investigate or take action against the drug operabon because of a desire not to offend their Pakistani and Afghan allies. In 1993, an official of the DEA called Afghanistan the new Colombia of the drug world.

MlD-1980s to early 199Os, HAITI

While working to keep key Haitian military and political leaders in power, the CIA turned a blind eye to their clients’ drug trafficking. In 1986, the Agency added some more names to its payroll by creating a new Haitian organization, the National Intelligence Service (SIN). SIN was purportedly created to fight the cocaine trade, though SIN officers themselves engaged in the trafficking, a trade aided and abetted by some of the Haitian military and political leaders.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/03/opinion/03iht-edlarry.html

This is a net York Times article titled "the CIA drug connection is as old as the agency"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking



American drug war: the last white hope
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8fBbH3K18s

http://www.rt.com/usa/194992-cia-crack-scandal-webb/
An article backing the initial report of CIA running cocaine for the contras, the initial reporter killed himself, but now people involved are comming forward.

http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/index.html#1 https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/10/02/cont-o02.html
In the links there's a document proving the CIA knew of cocaine smuggling activities tied to the contras

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/12247-cia-manages-drug-trade-mexican-official-says


http://americanfreepress.net/?p=16169
This is an article on how the CIA is fueling the heroin epidemic.

In April 1998, Celerino Castillo, a former top-level Drug Enforcement Agency operative, provided sensitive, first-hand testimony to the US Senate House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.  He told the Senators of his direct personal knowledge of massive CIA complicity in the drug trade.
http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/cia_drug_trafficking.htm
Here is the article from which the above clip was taken...

This is just scratching the surface, there's report after report, documents, ex-CIA and DEA testimony, programs like MKULTRA which became public, look into"operation midnight climax" this is where a high level CIA agent (Sidney gotlieb) would dress as a beatnik and go to coffee houses in the bay area feeding unsuspecting citizens LSD, which he named "stormy" due to the varied and wild reactions.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Midnight_Climax

:tmckenna:When I wrote this book, I did a lot of research on an area I didn't know that much about, which is, let's say from 1500 to the present, drugs of addiction. And what I discovered is drug smuggling is like assassination. If the government isn't involved, it never seems to really happen. And governments have been using drugs for centuries as forms of secret revenue. This whole sugar thing that I laid out to you, those were decisions made by the crown heads of Europe in collusion with the Pope. It wasn't common people who set those policies in place.

During the 1960's, when the black ghettos began to come apart, suddenly number three China white heroin was cheaper and more available than it had ever been in any time in this history of the heroin problem in the United States. Why? Because the CIA saw, you know, all these black guys are getting up, a bunch of uppity niggers as the government calls them, you just smother it in heroin. Get everybody either hooked or making money...

And they don't care really about the effects of drugs, and one group, one faction will work against another. For example, I'm a great afficianado of hashish, and hashish became very hard to get in the United States in the late 70's. But as soon as the Russians invaded Afghanistan, suddenly there was massive amounts of excellent Afghani hashish, at prices that nobody had seen for fifteen years. Well, the reason was, the CIA knows that hashish is not really a problem. But what they wanted is, they wanted an income for the mujahadin. And they had to pay for all these weapons. So they just started bringing it in wholesale. And it wasn't even a smuggling operation. I mean, I received reports from people who said, you know, 'Smuggling? They're not smuggling. They're unloading it on pier 39, union local 1030 is taking off, you know, five hundred pound blocks of hashish by the tens of thousands.' And the day the Afghan war ended? They staged an enormous series of interlocking busts on their own infrastructure, and they closed it down, and they pulled it to pieces.

When Khomeni kicked out the Shah, the Iranian heroin business then fell under the control of the mulahs, and at that point, suddenly cocaine emerges as a major problem in the United States, because we just switched our supply lines. We could no longer depend on Iranian heroin, because we couldn't depend on these screwy Islamic fundamentalists, so we just turned toward all of these company assets in Honduras and Ecuador and Columbia. Very, very cynical.

You know, it's only been a hundred and twenty years since the so called opium wars. Very few people know what the opium wars, what was the issue in the opium wars. Well, it turns out the British government wanted to deal opium in China, and the Chinese Emperor told them to get lost. And they flipped. And they sent naval units, and they laid siege to several Chinese cities, and they forced the Chinese imperial court to agree that they could deal as much opium as they wanted on the wharves of Shanghai...

The Japanese, when they invaded Manchuria in the Second World War, they immediately began producing heroin and opium in vast amounts, not then as an economic strategy, but as a strategy to break the will of the Chinese population by encouraging addiction, and there was vast amounts of opium addiction. If any of you saw 'The Last Emperor,' you recall that his mistress was severely addicted to opium, and it depicted it in a number of scenes.

So governments have very cynically manipulated drugs, so that the drugs which make it possible for capitalism to function are cheap and freely available, and the drugs which erode dominator values, or cause people to question their situation, are savagely supressed.

...so you see there may be very complex reasons why the CIA wants to promote drug use and drug culture....

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22150179 - 08/27/15 07:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
I really did not want to get into this here because there's so much information to go over, so sorry this is so long...




I'm glad you did man, that was an absolutely fascinating read.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22150185 - 08/27/15 07:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

sometimes I counteract negative thoughts or emotions in meditation with their counteropposite!


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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22150461 - 08/27/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Abandon politics?  You call million person marches on DC abandoning politics?  The 60's were some of the most politically charged moments in american history.  Yeah I agree the US does some pretty scummy things, but the whole CIA created hippies conspiracy theory makes absolutely no sense when you analyze it.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22154931 - 08/28/15 05:03 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Abandon politics?  You call million person marches on DC abandoning politics?  The 60's were some of the most politically charged moments in american history.  Yeah I agree the US does some pretty scummy things, but the whole CIA created hippies conspiracy theory makes absolutely no sense when you analyze it.




To give the CIA total credit for the hippie movement would be a mistake. It was a number of co-occurrences that came to a concrescence at that time point...but the CIA did play a huge role in the spread of LSD through MKULTRA and similar programs.

I don't fully buy the lurel canyon conspiracy stuff, but it is interesting.

Though I'm certain the main drug distributors globally are the CIA...

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22154935 - 08/28/15 05:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
I really did not want to get into this here because there's so much information to go over, so sorry this is so long...




I'm glad you did man, that was an absolutely fascinating read.




Thanks, I love to discuss these topics, but without the background information my claims hold very little weight, unfortunately there's a TON of background information here, I was barely scratching the surface...all I can say is that through my extensive research I've reached some unusual conclusions...

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22154948 - 08/28/15 05:16 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
all I can say is that through my extensive research I've reached some unusual conclusions...




Do you mean the conclusions outlined above? Or is there more? I would love to hear them if you have not expressed them.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22155214 - 08/28/15 07:34 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
all I can say is that through my extensive research I've reached some unusual conclusions...




Do you mean the conclusions outlined above? Or is there more? I would love to hear them if you have not expressed them.





It's very rare that I express my actual personal opinions or views, but I can give you as much background as you want on the opinions expressed above.

During "operation midnight climax" the CIA had a team of prostitutes, they would lure Johns into a set hotel, equipped with two way mirrors, the prostitutes would slip the johns high dose LSD, and CIA agents would observe through  These two way mirrors...(there's a concept known as "breaking the third wall" which is basically where you bring a fictional character to life in the real world. as spys, the CIA were experts in this field) eventually Sidney gotlieb (high ranking CIA agent/MKULTRA frontmant ) began to actually take to the streets of San Francisco himself, disguised as a hippy or a beatnik, where he would take personal pleasure in dosing random citizens with LSD, generally without their knowledge, he named LSD "stormy" in his notes, due to the wild and varied reactions the compound would produce...so who knows how many of your hippie icons were MKULTRA agents (the fact the lurel canyon had a secret government film studio (lookout mountain) right on top of it, raises questions as well...( even during the 50s people such as John Wayne had secret government clearance to  laurel canyon and this studio)

Governments manipulate media, this is known, Joseph Goebbels, the head Nazi propaganda officer, had a hand in the production of every German movie and radio show being shown to the public, I'm sure the CIA performs similar media manipulations, actually I know they do...but I would have to get into a whole other yarn to detail this...

Then you have figures like Jim Morrison (the doors are my favorite band, and Jim Morrison's other work is just as amazing) this guy's dad basically started Viet nam (George Stephen Morrison (January 7, 1919 – November 17, 2008) was a United States Navy rear admiral (upper half) and naval aviator. Morrison was commander of the U.S. naval forces in the Gulf of Tonkin during the Gulf of Tonkin Incident of August 1964, which sparked an escalation of American involvement in the Vietnam War.-wikipedia) and then Jim shows up on the music scene, no prior musical past, no prior interest in music, and becomes this major fugue in the counter-culture, his career was from 1967-1971, during which time his image changed drastically, he went from a hip clean shaven pretty boy to a fat bearded poet type to being mysteriously dead (only two people saw Jim dead...supposedly). Jim's IQ was in the genius range, in 1964, in this picture with his dad, he is a very clean cut preppy type,
So he was great at changing his image, he had a genius IQ, and his dad was a high ranking military member, Morrison fits the perfect credentials for a CIA agent...I'm NOT saying he was, but he would have been great at it...he may have been "braking the third wall" with Jim Morrison, and at his death simply decided to move onto another character, or decided to retire and become anonymous...Or this could all be strange coincidence, it's really hard to say...


...one agent when questioned why they would do this (acts of MKULTRA) simply said "I could not let go of something so beautiful"...

.

*Pont-Saint-Esprit, france, 1951, the entire town experiences simultaneous psychedelia, "saint Anthony's fire" meaning ergot poisoning, is blamed...yet when ergot infected rye bread is ingested it causes dangerous vassoconstriction as well as convulsive symptoms and gangrenous symptoms, yet at pont-saint-espirit, france in 1951, we don't see this, NOBODY in the entire town who was effected suffered the symptoms of ergotism...the CIA placed LSD or an LSD like compound on the town's food or water supply as part of MKULTRA...in the United states the chlorine and fluoride in our drinking water destroys the LSD, so you can't dose our water supply, I'm guessing this French town did NOT chemically treat their water, and just to observe what would happen, though on a small scale, if LSD were to get into the water or food supply, the CIA drove an entire French village mad with LSD or an LSD like compound...

(Though MKULTRA was in fact real,as was project midnight climax and Sidney gotliebs bizzare actions...I fully believe all the  MKULTRA information...how ever all the MKULTRA files were destroyed before they could get to public eyes, so we will never really know how deep MKULTRA really went...Though a box that was mislabeled and stored was found to contain some of these files, the information we have about MKULTRA is only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what these people actually did...

Ok, I'm getting all over the place, too many subjects being jumbled together as quickly as possible...

Regardless of what I may personally think or believe, I would be happy to go into detail on any of the topics outlined above or in any of my previous posts, and as I remember things that I left out I can post them...I hope there was not too much review in the above post, I tried to throw some new information in there...

What conclusions do you draw from all this?

-E. Borodin


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OfflineRennHuhn
Stranger

Registered: 03/12/15
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22155501 - 08/28/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Acid Dreams, read it. One of the best books on the MK Ultra and related projects and the counter culture. It shows a good and realistic interpretation of the relationship between  CIA/other agencies and counter culture, with lots of proof.

Another important book is the Brotherhood of Eternal love, especially regarding Ronald Stark. To understand the counterculture as good as possible there is a lot of reading needed, but I think anyone thinking abput psychedelics and politics should be informed about the counter culture to understand its failures strenghts and in what way police, state, media and various three letter agencies will fight radical change.

Everyone dreaming of revolution should learn how others failed and what remained.


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OfflineFryersQuest
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Registered: 11/10/14
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Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: resonant111]
    #22157647 - 08/28/15 05:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

There doesn't even seem to really even be a uniform counter-culture movement right now. Us shroomy types are all different but we all see the important spiritual nature of psychedelics. Then you have a real counter-culture formed by hip-hop who really just seem to want to have anarchy and don't give a shit about anybody but themselves.


--------------------

Species Found: Gymnopilus Luteofolius ~ Panaeolus Cinctulus ~ Psilocybe Baeocystis ~ Psilocybe Cyanescens ~ Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa ~ Psilocybe Semilanceata ~ Psilocybe Stuntzii


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