|
resonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
|
Is the counter-culture brainwashed?
#22126742 - 08/22/15 12:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
The average shroomerite typically accepts one or more of the following worldviews: (Yes I'm going to generalize)
-psychedelics have the potential to unlock some sort of "truth" or ultimate reality. -material culture is ignorant and blind to truth -the government keeps psychedelics illegal to profit and keep us from accessing truth -question authority, create your own reality -fascination in some sort of spiritual system or philosophy with "enlightenment" as the end goal
so i'd like to ask us...are we all full of bullshit? are we merely repeating the same mental-programs that leary, mckenna and the like ingrained into the counter-culture decades ago? are we really finding truth, or pretending to have conveniently found it? do we really think for ourselves or are we a cliche? did we just choose this psychedelic tribe because we felt out of place in traditional society?
I think these are all valid questions. Let's discuss.
--------------------
|
Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 2,217
Last seen: 6 months, 2 days
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: resonant111]
#22126762 - 08/22/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
If you wade through the shit what do you hope to find at the bottom?
|
resonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Jaegar]
#22126773 - 08/22/15 12:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
More shit? An endless sewerage of poo-water?
--------------------
|
ONE OZ SLUG
-



Registered: 05/22/13
Posts: 17,839
Loc: TX
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: resonant111]
#22126988 - 08/22/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I think a lot of it has to do with people being lost, or perhaps they feel outcasted, and adopting these beliefs makes them feel at home.
Some people feel the system that was supposedly created to protect us find it very harmful, and their solution is to go against the grain as much as possible.
I think most people at some point realize that psychedelics don't hold the key to the truth. Perhaps they realize that psychedelics raise more questions than answers.
If the counter-culture movement in the 60's was so revolutionary, where is it now? Why did it disappear into obscurity?
I'm kind of rambling but I hope what I say is making sense. Counter-culture is a fad to some degree, and people follow it because that's what makes them comfortable.
|
resonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: ONE OZ SLUG]
#22127113 - 08/22/15 01:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Interesting thoughts One Oz...i'd agree with most of that. i wouldn't say it fizzled out at all though...the counterculture is probably bigger than ever thanks to the internet. Anyone in the world can adopt a counter-culture lifestyle by simply reading a few things on the internet now and saying "hey that sounds about right to me!" It may "appear" to have fizzled out but it's more that people are doing drugs behind closed doors and stuff -- whereas in the 70's it was all out in the open.
I think alot of us forget that the counter-culture views we have were actually very much ingrained by leaders of the movement like leary and mckenna. So we convince ourselves we are thinking for ourselves, but really we're just following a philosophy that's been programmed into alot of people over time -- much like society itself.
A problem I see with the counter-culture is it's easy to put yourself "above" society or alienate yourself from it because this worldview is so at odds with traditional culture, in many aspects. I think alot of people that get into this counter-culture eventually get kind of disillusioned with it over time, probably from taking it a bit too far.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: resonant111]
#22127332 - 08/22/15 02:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I tend to think of human thought as one system. All of global culture consists of this system. So, all of the counter-cultural memes in the world are not part of a different system, but this same system, with the same rules.
The Weather Underground and the Republican Party are playing the same game. Not two different games. One cannot escape the organic unity of collective human thought. So, while some of these ideas are quite sound and valid, they are not going to materially affect the course of the world. One should, of course, think whatever one wishes. However, it helps to understand that they're not one's own ideas, just as the language is not made up of one's own words. I'm not sure Leary and McKenna were full of shit, at all, but they were promulgating ideas that were just different permutations of old ideas, very much within the system of human thought.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: resonant111]
#22127439 - 08/22/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
The politically correct, anti-conspiracy theorist moderators do a decent job of squelching any real counter culture ideas. Those not believing in the official story of 9/11 for example are promptly set straight.
"Of course that jet fuel burning well below the melting point of steel caused those buildings to drop at free fall speed, what are you stupid"?
Rinse, and repeat.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
|
Cowb0yNeal00



Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 11,059
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: LunarEclipse]
#22130485 - 08/23/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
its all about the lifestyle people wish to choose. You have to be down with the cause.
|
LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Cowb0yNeal00]
#22131723 - 08/23/15 04:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
myles33 said: its all about the lifestyle people wish to choose. You have to be down with the cause.
I don't have to be "down" with any "cause". Why would you say that, are you trying to brainwash me? Clever.
I'm not joining any causes, or groups, or clubs, or political parties, or the military, or anything that involves people meeting to discuss anything, or contributing to any charity, or supporting any group, cause, religion, event, musical groups given special consideration, but that's just cause..
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
|
Cowb0yNeal00



Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 11,059
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: LunarEclipse] 2
#22131762 - 08/23/15 04:45 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
myles33 said: its all about the lifestyle people wish to choose. You have to be down with the cause.
I don't have to be "down" with any "cause". Why would you say that, are you trying to brainwash me? Clever.
I'm not joining any causes, or groups, or clubs, or political parties, or the military, or anything that involves people meeting to discuss anything, or contributing to any charity, or supporting any group, cause, religion, event, musical groups given special consideration, but that's just cause..
your part of the shroomery
|
ONE OZ SLUG
-



Registered: 05/22/13
Posts: 17,839
Loc: TX
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Cowb0yNeal00]
#22131788 - 08/23/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Shroomery isn't a cause or a belief.
|
Cowb0yNeal00



Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 11,059
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: ONE OZ SLUG]
#22131874 - 08/23/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
all I'm saying is don't be a fool
|
Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: resonant111] 1
#22133077 - 08/23/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I question authority but i'm not sure if I make my own reality. I don't know of any truth to preach about. Is the counter-culture brainwashed? Yeah to some degree depending on how open and accepting that person is but you can say that about any culture.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
|
jesserayhatchtrue
master



Registered: 08/25/15
Posts: 121
Loc: ravenna ohio unitedstates
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
|
|
many are controlled by there self created fears not me soon we love your life let go of fear and you shall be free
|
saenchai
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/14
Posts: 238
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
|
It's interesting to think about. True autonomy doesn't come from having dogmatic beliefs regardless of their degree of accuracy. Even well intentioned devotion to a particularly set of beliefs like Buddhism or counter culture seems to yield more seekers than autonomous souls. Isn't that the original point of the ideas that were passed down? How many Buddhists die having become the Buddha?
At this point in time it seems pretty hard to avoid growing into some kind of dogmatic belief system. Maybe it is a good starting point to be abandoned later on. If they are used as anything else but signposts they seem to become serious hindrances.
You have confused people of varying intentions in the new age community holding up the signposts as some great blessing from god, fetishizing enlightenment and completely abandoning the original point of things, confusing people who haven't made that discernment yet and often parting with some of their money in the process. It's a circus. But if I had to pick the most fertile dogma soil from which I could eventually achieve real autonomy you could do a lot worse than those particular set of beliefs. Know what I mean?
All the little nudges you get from life set you straight from whatever you need to be dispossessed from if you're willing to listen. Even "correct" dogmas may need to be shed because if you trust anything but yourself and your guides you risk getting bad data or mispercieving.
|
jesserayhatchtrue
master



Registered: 08/25/15
Posts: 121
Loc: ravenna ohio unitedstates
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: saenchai]
#22138765 - 08/25/15 04:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
want what you need
-------------------- TRUTH
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
|
Quote:
ONE OZ SLUG said: I think a lot of it has to do with people being lost, or perhaps they feel outcasted, and adopting these beliefs makes them feel at home.
This resonated deeply with me. I often feel like an alien amongst my peers for looking deeply at, and questioning, the status quo. Most people talk about it of course, but I feel that most are brainwashed by media and other peoples influences towards social norms. Oscar Wilde has this to say on the subject, which I believe is true of all of us to some degree:
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
Which is where DQ's opinion comes in to play. I think this is a very succinct overview of this subject. There is very little that one can 'think' or have as a 'worldview' that has not been previously espoused:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: I tend to think of human thought as one system. All of global culture consists of this system. So, all of the counter-cultural memes in the world are not part of a different system, but this same system, with the same rules.
The Weather Underground and the Republican Party are playing the same game. Not two different games. One cannot escape the organic unity of collective human thought. So, while some of these ideas are quite sound and valid, they are not going to materially affect the course of the world. One should, of course, think whatever one wishes. However, it helps to understand that they're not one's own ideas, just as the language is not made up of one's own words. I'm not sure Leary and McKenna were full of shit, at all, but they were promulgating ideas that were just different permutations of old ideas, very much within the system of human thought.
IMO, as long as you are making an effort to question all that you can, then you're making the best go of it. Labels like 'counter-culture' are just another way of chucking thinkers with a certain propensity to look outside the box, into a box, and whist the concepts resonate with me, I firmly reject the labels.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: Is the counter-culture brainwashed? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#22139920 - 08/25/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks for highlighting, Jsb. Nice post there. Yes, I merely wanted to point out that in reality the separation we think exists between different cultural elements is really an illusion. Good ideas are good ideas, but the system of human thought is one organic whole; no set of memes is truly independent from any other. If we wish to make any progress as a society, we have to recognize this and work from the bottom up. Although, I admit I don't hold out much hope for that.
All a person can ever do is make an earnest effort to stay as close to the truth as possible. That's the best thing.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
|
Some claim the "hippie" and psychedelic counter culture were inventions of the CIA...
Laurel Canyon had a military base (lookout mountain) not far from it, this was a fully equipped film studio...it was claimed to be there for editing A-bomb films...
Jim Morrison's dad had direct involvement with the incident that sparked the Viet nam war...george Morrison was commander of the U.S. naval forces in the Gulf of Tonkin during the Gulf of Tonkin Incident of August 1964, which sparked an escalation of American involvement in the Vietnam War.-Wikipedia
Most of these psychedelic rock icons have high level military or intelligence members in their family...
And knowing about things like that in operation "midnight climax" Sidney gotlieb (high ranking CIA officer) would disguise himself as a beatnik and go around San Francisco's hip neighborhoods giving unsuspecting civilians LSD...they love pretending to be hippies...
Ken kesey got his first LSD dose from the government...as did many of the hippie icons...
Intentionally or not, the CIA played a big role in the hippie movements creation and image...
I don't fully buy the conspiracy theorists view on all this, by I do feel the government has many unknown relations to the psychedelic counter-culture...
-E. Borodin
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
|
Interesting.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
|