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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: Sabnock]
    #22129498 - 08/23/15 02:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The minimum price you pay for extended use is, IF you're healthy, is when you stop, there's a period of a few days when your serotonin levels reset - it's a restricted or constricted affect, to put it in psych terms.  Everything seems flat and 2 dimensional - sort of an "anti-trip".  Unless you have compelling reasons to want to go there, don't. It's not pleasant at all, but it is tolerable.

If you mix an MAO-A inhibitor you just potentiate them and that's still going to result in tolerance.  Tolerance is your body reacting to the change in neurochemistry produced by the sum total of the circulating psilocin, and the inhibitor increases that exposure to yield the stronger effects.  You CAN'T avoid it.

The standard advice is still the best - s p a c e  t h e m  o u t.  I haven't tripped heavily since summer of last year...


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OfflineNeji
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22129621 - 08/23/15 04:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Idk if it's safe but it's not fun and pretty wasteful. Coming from someone with experience I tried it once. But with acid, I tripped the night before hand had nice visuals and head space this was off one tab. I had another tab saved that I was going to keep for that one lonely day when you don't got shit to do. I wake up the next morning because i tripped during the day and wanted to trip again so bad so I just said fuck it and took it. Off the same sheet results was, it was still fun but north worth it. Would of had a way better experience saving it for a later time. I smoked weed on it and the whole thing didn't really feel like a trip more like a intense high. Like I had a little bit of the headspace but very minor visuals. There was practically none. The best i can explain it is is this. Most of the time on acid you know your tripping on this I was like I felt a little bit of acid but not a lot. Like I didn't know i was tripping but it was a totally different experience then a regular fresh trip. It was like a 6 hour strong weed high I can describe it. IMO you need to up your dose to achieve the same experience. Probably about double your original so if you took 1 take 2 etc. but dude it really isn't worth it your going to get bored of being high for that long and it takes the magic out of acid.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: Neji]
    #22130756 - 08/23/15 12:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It requires a lot of planning.  Not something you'd want to do just for shits and giggles. :shrug:

You need 50% more each successive day (with shrooms) until you get to 4x the original dose, which then stays the same as long as you can stand it - full blown trips, visuals, mindfuck, whatever you normally get.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22130915 - 08/23/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You can trip fairly often if you respect set and setting.  You can trip once and have a psychotic episode if you don't.

I wouldn't suggest tripping daily.  Kinda hard to get shit done.


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Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22130940 - 08/23/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If MAO-A inhibition up-regulates the Serotonergic receptors, it could very well remove the tolerance from Shrooms. If someone hasn't tried it out before, i certainly will sometime soon.

The reason for tolerance with Shrooms, is the same as any other tolerance, the receptors get activated and down-regulated, as the receptors are down-regulated, tolerance builds, the same goes most pharmaceuticals as well, since you have to increase the dose as you continue taking it. But, if you can counteract that down-regulation with up-regulation, it should take away the tolerance. So i'm very interested in seeing what Shrooms plus Rue or Moclobemide has to offer on a daily basis. If tolerance kicks in, oh well, i guess it can't be done. But if the tolerance does not occur when Shrooms are mixed with MAO-A inhibition, then that's wonderful.

But yeah, Rue does more than just potentiate Psilocybin from MAO-A inhibition, it also potentiates it from CYP liver enzyme inhibition, which is the real potentiater and not the MAO-A inhibition, i believe. I take a pharmaceutical called Tizanidine to help me get to sleep at night, and i've come to find out that the Tizanidine is potentiated quite a good bit from the Rue, even 7 to 8 hours after first taking the Rue, and it's clearly not the MAO-A inhibition potentiating it because i tried the same with Moclobemide and nadda. So there's definitely more to the potentiation of things by Rue, than just MAO-A inhibition.

And idk, like i said, i just have a hunch that Shrooms with MAO-A inhibition could very well remove the tolerance build up, and i'll try it out soon, i do have some wildly picked Shrooms i got from a friend, so perhaps i'll give it a shot in the next few days or so.

Been taking Mimosa with Moclobemide for the past 5 or so days, no tolerance build up, no loss of effects/magic, it's great medicine for me, which i'm hoping Shrooms will be too, especially with the longer duration.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: Sabnock]
    #22130987 - 08/23/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

There's some evidence that THH boosts the density levels of serotonin receptors for several weeks after ingestion.  This is Ayahuasca though, not Rue.

"When Callaway ran SPECT scans of his own brain following 6 weeks of daily THH ingestion he found that the density of central 5-HT receptors in his prefrontal cortex had increased. After discontinuing the THH administration he reported a return to normal levels over the course of the next several weeks."

https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/ayahuasca_apa/aya_sec1_modernstudies.shtml

There's also pharmaceuticals that are 5ht2a inverse agonists (upregulators).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor

I'd be careful with these though.  I read of someone taking a gram of shrooms and getting really fucked up because they were on one of these meds.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: Sabnock]
    #22131343 - 08/23/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sabnock said:
If MAO-A inhibition up-regulates the Serotonergic receptors, it could very well remove the tolerance from Shrooms. If someone hasn't tried it out before, i certainly will sometime soon.

The reason for tolerance with Shrooms, is the same as any other tolerance, the receptors get activated and down-regulated, as the receptors are down-regulated, tolerance builds, the same goes most pharmaceuticals as well, since you have to increase the dose as you continue taking it. But, if you can counteract that down-regulation with up-regulation, it should take away the tolerance. So i'm very interested in seeing what Shrooms plus Rue or Moclobemide has to offer on a daily basis. If tolerance kicks in, oh well, i guess it can't be done. But if the tolerance does not occur when Shrooms are mixed with MAO-A inhibition, then that's wonderful.

But yeah, Rue does more than just potentiate Psilocybin from MAO-A inhibition, it also potentiates it from CYP liver enzyme inhibition, which is the real potentiater and not the MAO-A inhibition, i believe. I take a pharmaceutical called Tizanidine to help me get to sleep at night, and i've come to find out that the Tizanidine is potentiated quite a good bit from the Rue, even 7 to 8 hours after first taking the Rue, and it's clearly not the MAO-A inhibition potentiating it because i tried the same with Moclobemide and nadda. So there's definitely more to the potentiation of things by Rue, than just MAO-A inhibition.

And idk, like i said, i just have a hunch that Shrooms with MAO-A inhibition could very well remove the tolerance build up, and i'll try it out soon, i do have some wildly picked Shrooms i got from a friend, so perhaps i'll give it a shot in the next few days or so.

Been taking Mimosa with Moclobemide for the past 5 or so days, no tolerance build up, no loss of effects/magic, it's great medicine for me, which i'm hoping Shrooms will be too, especially with the longer duration.




Personally, I think you're asking for trouble, but what the hell do I know. :lol:  It's the reason I've never used any kind of potentiator - just grow more.

Typically though, I'd expect that if this DID work as you think it would already be well known because it definitely has been tried, like so many things.  And who wouldn't welcome a get-out-of-tolerance free card?  Hell, I'd trip as often as I could with that. :awesomenod:

The mechanism as I understand it is that it increases the lifetime of psilocin in the bloodstream before degradation, which has the effect of increasing the serum levels over time, and that would most likely be because it affects the liver's degradation process somehow.

wiki:
Quote:

MAOIs act by inhibiting the activity of monoamine oxidase, thus preventing the breakdown of monoamine neurotransmitters and thereby increasing their availability. There are two isoforms of monoamine oxidase, MAO-A and MAO-B. MAO-A preferentially deaminates serotonin, melatonin, epinephrine, and norepinephrine. MAO-B preferentially deaminates phenethylamine and certain other trace amines; in contrast, MAO-A preferentially deaminates other trace amines, like tyramine, whereas dopamine is equally deaminated by both types.




The brain's response to psilocin is a typical homeostasis feedback loop - tolerance sets in rapidly (within a couple hours of ingestion at most, verified by what happens when you wait to long to re-up during a trip) and it wears off slowly, over days.  It's a fast stabilizing response to a sudden destabilizing input. 

Just to be pedantically thorough :wink: (wiki):

Quote:


The MAOIs are infamous for their numerous drug interactions, including the following kinds of substances:
· Substances that are metabolized by monoamine oxidase, as they can be boosted by up to several-fold.
· Substances that increase serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine activity, as too much of any of these neurochemicals can result in severe acute consequences, including serotonin syndrome,hypertensive crisis, and psychosis, respectively.
Such substances that can react with MAOIs include:
· Phenethylamines: 2C-B, Mescaline, Phenethylamine (PEA), etc.
· Amphetamines: Amphetamine,[38] MDMA, Dextroamphetamine, Methamphetamine, DOM, etc.
· Tryptamines: DMT, Psilocin/Psilocybin ("Magic Mushrooms"), etc.
· Lysergamides: Ergolines/LSA, LSD ("Acid"), etc.
· Serotonin, Norepinephrine, and/or Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitors:
· Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs): Citalopram, Dapoxetine, Escitalopram, Fluoxetine, Fluvoxamine, Paroxetine, Sertraline.
· Serotonin-Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors (SNRIs): Desvenlafaxine, Duloxetine, Milnacipran, Venlafaxine.
· Norepinephrine-Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitors (NDRIs): Amineptine, Bupropion, Methylphenidate, Nomifensine.
· Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors (NRIs): Atomoxetine, Mazindol, Reboxetine.
· Tricyclic Antidepressants (TCAs): Amitriptyline, Butriptyline, Clomipramine, Desipramine, Dosulepin, Doxepin, Imipramine, Lofepramine, Nortriptyline, Protriptyline, Trimipramine.
· Tetracyclic Antidepressants (TeCAs): Amoxapine, Maprotiline.
· Phenylpiperidine derivative Opioids: Meperidine/Pethidine, Tramadol, Methadone, Fentanyl, Dextropropoxyphene, Propoxyphene.
· Others: Brompheniramine, Chlorpheniramine, Cocaine, Cyclobenzaprine, Dextromethorphan (DXM), Ketamine, MDPV, Nefazodone, Phencyclidine (PCP), Pheniramine, Sibutramine,Trazodone.
· Serotonin, Norepinephrine, and/or Dopamine Releasers: 4-Methylaminorex (4-MAR), Amphetamine, Benzphetamine, Cathine, Cathinone, Diethylcathinone, Ephedrine, Levmetamfetamine,Lisdexamfetamine, MDMA ("Ecstasy"), Methamphetamine, Pemoline, Phendimetrazine, Phenethylamine (PEA), Phentermine, Propylhexedrine, Pseudoephedrine, Phenylephrine, Tyramine.
· Serotonin, Norepinephrine, and/or Dopamine Supplemental Precursors: 5-HTP, L-DOPA, L-Phenylalanine, L-Tryptophan, L-Tyrosine.
· Local and General anesthetic in surgery and dentistry in particular those containing Epinephrine. There is no universally taught or accepted practice regarding dentistry and use of MAOIs such as Phenelzine and it is, therefore, vital to inform all clinicians especially dentists of the potential effect of MAOIs and Local Anesthesia. In preparation for dental work, withdrawal from Phenelzine is specifically advised, however since this takes two weeks it is not always a desirable or practical option. Dentists using Local Anesthesia are advised to use a non-epinephrine anesthetic such as Carbocaine at a level of 3%. Specific attention should be paid to blood pressure during the procedure and the level of the anesthetic should be regularly and appropriately topped up since non-epinephrine anestetics take longer to come into effect and wear off faster. Patients taking Phenelzine are advised to notify their Psychiatrist prior to any dental treatment.
· Certain other supplements: Hypericum perforatum ("St John's Wort"), Inositol, Rhodiola rosea, S-Adenosyl-L-Methionine (SAMe), L-Theanine.
· Other Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors.





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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
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InvisibleJacobStorm
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: Goddess of Beauty]
    #22131356 - 08/23/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Goddess of Beauty said:
Is it safe to take it everyday? Will there be any after effects?




Is this question out of curiosity? or are you wanting to eat mushrooms everyday? or have you been eating mushrooms everyday and are now worried of the side effects?


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #22131610 - 08/23/15 04:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

@ PrimalSoup

My thing is, i have Aspergers/Autism or whatever, diagnosed as ADHD but pretty sure i'm Autistic, and have been through practically every pharmaceutical Psychiatrists have to offer.... then i found Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca helps me feel more normal, and while i'm on it, my life is enhanced quite a bit and i can function better. Ayahuasca can be many things, can be used for many things, it has much potential, and so i view it more from a medicinal perspective, though i certainly fully 100% respect it and use it responsibly.

That said though, when i can bring myself to take it, i've used it daily every now and then since 2012, but there have definitely been some long breaks every so often. And it got me wondering about Shrooms and if they could be used how i'm using oral DMT, medicinally, and the only thing stopping me from doing that is tolerance, which idk i just have a feeling that Rue or Moclobemide could help to remove the tolerance from Shrooms. If anything, Rue could be used to help lower the dosage of Shrooms needed.

Plus, while Shrooms by themselves are probably no doubt awesome (haven't had much time with them yet), i'm more of an Ayahuasca guy and for me the MAO-A inhibition and some of the other stuff that Rue does, makes for a wonderful medicine and has effects that are more to my liking, even outbeats LSD in my opinion, though i've only had one 300mcg LSD experience. Now, i know DMT and Psilocin are different, but i can imagine them providing similar medicinal benefits for me. If i could grow an abundance of Shrooms, i would, and probably could if i really put the effort into it. But i'd like to see if i could potentially remove the tolerance from it, so maybe it'll work, maybe it won't.

One thought i've had a few times before though is using 1 to 2 grams of Shrooms with Ayahuasca, like work out the ratio between the Shrooms and the Mimosa or Acacia, and have a pretty wild time lol. I one time included about 600 to 700mgs of Shroom powder (potent pink buffalos, homegrown) and i could definitely tell that it synergized with the Acacia, enhanced the visual activity, and made for a much more giggly experience. lol.

I like mixing things together, you can get different kinds of effects or experiences by combining things rather than just taking something by itself.

As for the potential consequences of mixing Shrooms, DMT, perhaps even LSD, Mescaline, as well as many different kinds of plants, with a reversible inhibitor of MAO-A such as Rue or Moclobemide, i'm well aware one needs to be safe and cautious, but the whole "serotonin syndrome, hypertensive crisis, and psychosis" isn't really a concern, for me at least. I've suffered SS from some pharmaceuticals i used to be on, so i know how that feels and have never experienced it with Ayahuasca or mixing things with Rue or Moclobemide. The hypertensive crisis (high blood pressure) i haven't ever experienced either except for when DMT pumps out that Adrenaline lol, but there's certainly no Tyramine reaction with Rue or Moclobemide, and the psychosis... well, we're taking supposed psychoto-mimetric compounds, and other than the effects of the Psychedelics themselves, i've never personally experienced psychosis. People tend to over-exaggerate the possible negative side-effects/reactions of using an MAO-A inhibitor, which don't get me wrong, there are definitely some things you don't want to mix with them, but even SSRI's for example have been combined with Moclobemide in at least 2 studies and have been shown to have promising results with a pretty good safety profile, as long as the dosage of both the SSRI and MAO-A inhibitor are within a good ratio. My brother takes Zoloft, and has taken Ayahuasca multiple times (though he needs a higher dose than usual of the DMT because of the Zoloft) but the Rue or Moclobemide hasn't ever affected him negatively while on Zoloft. Once again, not saying it's completely safe or anything, so always use caution and be responsible with one's experimentation, but i think RIMA's have wonderful potential in medicine, especially when combined with other things.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: Sabnock]
    #22131717 - 08/23/15 04:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I took shrooms with Rue.  It was alright but I'm not really a fan of Rue.  Shrooms with Ayahuasca and a touch of ACRB was really nice.

It's changed my perspective on shrooms quite a bit.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22132014 - 08/23/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
I took shrooms with Rue.  It was alright but I'm not really a fan of Rue.  Shrooms with Ayahuasca and a touch of ACRB was really nice.

It's changed my perspective on shrooms quite a bit.





Yeah the Rue can be a bit rough sometimes, though i have found that i can clean up how the Rue feels by counteracting Harmaline's GABA-A inverse agonism, which Lemon Balm seems to do a good job at without dulling anything down. When i take Rue with Lemon Balm, it's so clean/clear feeling, but without the Lemon Balm, it can feel a bit raw/dirty. I've been wanting to try some Caapi, and i do have a pound of yellow Caapi that i want to brew up and extract the alkaloids, but i tried extracting from a pound of red Caapi a few months ago and could never get any extract to precipitate out, so i've been put off of Caapi for a bit. How does a Caapi brew taste? I'd imagine freezing and thawing the brew would help to improve taste, but i'd much rather work with a full spectrum freebase extract that can either be encapsulated or smoked.


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OfflineCujllickduo
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: Sabnock]
    #22132034 - 08/23/15 05:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yes It Is SAFE !

if your a person who understands and doesn't get Twisted on negative thoughts and stay happy who doesn't care about all that im sure your human life will be successful and lovable !


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: Sabnock]
    #22132050 - 08/23/15 05:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It tastes like burnt chocolate mixed with dirty socks.  Most horrible thing I've had next to cactus tea which I would describe as 10,000 year old cactus asshole.

Freeze precipitation doesn't work.  A lot of the actives bind to the caramelized sludge.  It's not like ACRB or Mimosa that way.

I find it gentler than Rue, mentally.  If Rue is your brutally honest friend Ayahuasca is your patient therapist and I found the former threw up too many of my defense mechanisms to get much out of.

The purge on both of them is brutal but much more productive for me on Ayahuasca.

I've only taken Rue a few times mind you.  Once I started taking Caapi I didn't look back.

Currently I'm on an SSRI so I don't take either one.  But I recently gave away all my Rue and still have a few doses of Ayahuasca in my freezer for if I ever come back to it.

*edit* There's a cwe somewhere around the net which is supposed to make very potent and much better tasting brew.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


Edited by paperbackwriter (08/23/15 05:47 PM)


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OfflineBlazeyy
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: Cujllickduo]
    #22132051 - 08/23/15 05:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

day 1 - 1g
day 2 - 1.7g
day 3 - 2.6g
day 4 - 3.8g
day 5 - 4.9g
day 6 - 6.0g
day 7 - bankrupt

Stick to once or twice a week maximum n even that's a bit overboard.


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I give you the choice of 2 pills.

With each containing one of the following:
Cyanide... Psilocin... Would you take the risk?
Didn't think so.

This is why Positive Identification prior to consumption is important.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: Sabnock]
    #22132613 - 08/23/15 08:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Sabnock - give it a try.  If you know what you're doing you'll be fine.  But something tells me it won't work like you think.  Tripping w/out tolerance buildup would be the holy grail...




And thanks for the info!


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22132969 - 08/23/15 09:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Sabnock - give it a try.  If you know what you're doing you'll be fine.  But something tells me it won't work like you think.  Tripping w/out tolerance buildup would be the holy grail...





Thank ya sir :P

Yeah i think i'll be fine, if it does work. I took 1.5 grams of Shrooms with 3 capsules of ground Mimosa root and Moclobemide tonight, the Shrooms even at 1.5 grams seems like a good dose, not strong or anything, but definitely not mild. And i can feel the Mimosa but the characteristics of the experience has changed and seems calmer. I'm possibly going to try taking just Shrooms with Moclobemide tomorrow, perhaps 2.5 to 3 grams, and see how that goes, if it's alright, i'll repeat it again for a few days and see if the effects die down or stay just as strong. Either way, it's worth trying it out i think, at least just to know.

And yeah, if you could remove the tolerance from Shrooms, it probably would be the holy grail, but at least for me the holy grail is Ayahuasca and there's no tolerance there, even Pharmahuasca with Mimosa and Moclobemide, there doesn't seem to be a tolerance.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: Sabnock]
    #22133087 - 08/23/15 10:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I just like shrooms, though I'm thinking about making some DMT to dose up in the middle of a shroom trip with. :awecid:


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22133131 - 08/23/15 10:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
I just like shrooms, though I'm thinking about making some DMT to dose up in the middle of a shroom trip with. :awecid:



no better yet take 3 grams of shrooms 200mg of harmala salts and 120 mg of dmt if you really want to know what psychedelics are about


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22133151 - 08/23/15 10:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mrbart4444 said:
what psychedelics are about




What would that be, then? :llamastare:

On a side note - starting to think the OP is really just a troll...


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Is it safe to take magic mushrooms everyday? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22133184 - 08/23/15 10:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That's okay. This thread went way off topic and is pretty interesting.


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Open mind, open heart, open book.



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