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Offlineshellzenone
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Dow plummets 400+ points
    #22122679 - 08/21/15 02:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

What does this mean for our economy? I dont realy know much about economics...


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OfflineDilsnique
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: shellzenone]
    #22122692 - 08/21/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It means party down while you can....


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Invisiblevinsue
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: shellzenone]
    #22122694 - 08/21/15 02:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:haha::monopoly: . . . :peace:


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Offlineshellzenone
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: vinsue]
    #22122747 - 08/21/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

must be the set up for the collapse I guess. I knew the four blood moons would bring a big change! :paranoid:


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: shellzenone] * 1
    #22124336 - 08/21/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Effects of the TPP and people in their 30's not buying houses/tools.


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Dilsnique]
    #22124340 - 08/21/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Dilsnique said:
It means party down while you can....






fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccckkkkkkkkkkk


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: shellzenone] * 1
    #22124362 - 08/21/15 08:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shellzenone said:
What does this mean for our economy? I dont realy know much about economics...



Very little.  The Dow goes up and the Dow goes down but it is not the economy.  Labor force participation, home sales, CPI, oil prices, GDP these are all much more important.


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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: zappaisgod] * 3
    #22124378 - 08/21/15 08:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I means you either should vote Bernie Sanders or you will die.


--------------------

"There are a million reasons to drink and one just popped into my head.  If a man can't drink when he's living how the Hell can he drink when he's dead?" - Irish Limerick
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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: shellzenone] * 4
    #22124414 - 08/21/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shellzenone said:
What does this mean for our economy? I dont realy know much about economics...







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Offlinemy3rdeye
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #22124712 - 08/21/15 09:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It means not long until we are all fighting for food in the Thunderdome.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #22125503 - 08/22/15 03:42 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:lol:

Btw good point zappa. The problem with all these indicators is that they at the same time provide a little insight into the state of the economy, but they also influence the actions of economic agents and therefore the economy itself. The question "what does this mean" in relation to the DOW dropping therefore breaks down into 2 questions: what does this drop indicate, and what likely effects will the drop itself have on the actual economy. The former is mostly about the Asian economy stalling over the past few months, with particularly Chinese economic growth slowing down, which means that a large market for global producers is showing less potential than previously assumed. Hence stocks like Apple taking a big hit. The second question is difficult to answer without a crystal ball. Economic forces may show a self-correcting behavior, but they may also lead to a downward spiral.  You never really know what you'll get before it happens.


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OfflineSoulidarity
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: shellzenone] * 1
    #22125513 - 08/22/15 03:50 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

i'm actually hoping the american dollar depreciates a bit. majority of things are based off of the price of the USD, and so when the USD craps out, products become cheaper to purchase overseas and companies start lowering prices and stuff.

basically wait for the USD to crap out and then start buying up all kinds of electronics at cheap rates


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Soulidarity]
    #22125524 - 08/22/15 04:03 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, although shipping rates from the US to e.g. the EU are so insane that you'd almost think the Americans would rather hold on to their stuff and not sell overseas. They'd help themselves by instating policies such as the Chinese, that make intercontinental shipping a non-issue. Seriously, I'd be buying stuff from the US all the time if I didn't have to pay about $100 more (shipping, customs and import taxes, but mostly shipping) for a $60 item :facepalm:

To give an example: say I'd want to purchase an old, second-hand large format camera lens that is priced really low at $125 - depending on the lens, that's a steal and I'd buy it with little hesitation. But look at what I actually pay for this $125 item:
* Shipping: $65
* Customs charge: around $20
* Import tax: ca. $30
Total costs, item + S&H&T: $240. That's nearly double the price of the original item. Go suck a fatty.


Edited by koraks (08/22/15 04:07 AM)


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OfflineSoulidarity
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: koraks]
    #22125533 - 08/22/15 04:12 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

but even domestic businesses generally source their products internationally, and alot of it is traded on the value of the USD. and these are then stocked locally, so even domestic products get price decreases as the wholesalers start to pass on savings that flow down into distributor and retail pricing also


but yeah shipping costs eat away at the savings on international purchases too


still, something good to be aware of


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Soulidarity]
    #22125536 - 08/22/15 04:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

True that, and most commodities are globally traded in US.  The current economic slowdown gas resulted in lower commodity prices, which is beneficial to consumers. It's a bit more complicated for technical products where several currencies are usually involved including the yen and the euro, and curency hedging is a standard practice with nearly all internationally oriented tech companies. This moderates the effect somewhat.


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Offlinemy3rdeye
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Soulidarity]
    #22125559 - 08/22/15 05:09 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Soulidarity said:
i'm actually hoping the american dollar depreciates a bit. majority of things are based off of the price of the USD, and so when the USD craps out, products become cheaper to purchase overseas and companies start lowering prices and stuff.

basically wait for the USD to crap out and then start buying up all kinds of electronics at cheap rates




When your dollar goes down it gives you less buying power overseas not more.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: my3rdeye]
    #22125562 - 08/22/15 05:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

He's in Australia :wink:


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OfflineSoulidarity
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: koraks]
    #22125565 - 08/22/15 05:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

ya i agree, especially on an international scale there could be any number of factors influencing price. but i did got told recently by an audio shop specifically that they've had to raise prices to cover costs as a result of the aud/usd exchange rate deteriorating consistently.

as you said, if the USD drops it in someways could benefit the global economy, particularly the price of oil which effects everything to some degree. But then again theres probably other negative flow on effects from a depreciating USD in terms of decreasing foreign investment and reduction in trade from america also. :shrug:

economics is pretty interesting when you start to understand more about the system and how its all interconnected and start to get an idea about the flow on effects that world events can have.


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OfflineSoulidarity
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: koraks]
    #22125581 - 08/22/15 05:25 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

also i read your edit about the lense pricing. its not always like that. sometimes it can work out cheaper. international purchases are more of a hassle as well with time lags and issues about warranties also. most products purchased directly from overseas are covered by warranties where that business operates, which generally aren't recognized in your country.


like when i was looking at purchasing a watch, the prices online were ridiculously cheaper then anything that was being offered in local stores with their excessive markups, and they were refusing to match internet pricing as well because it was too cheap. but the problem was that the warranty that came with the watch was pretty much useless because if anything went wrong i'd have to ship it back to america just to be assessed to see if it even qualifies for a warranty repair or w/e.

back in 2012 i managed to snap up an epic set of headphones at an extremely good price when the AUD was doing well. and i didn't have to pay any postage costs or anything because it was ordered direct through the endorsed retailer, i just paid the price of the product itself.


theres alot of variance with these kind of things. still, good to be aware of these things as they can be beneficial. i think in general domestic purchases are just about always preferable to international.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Soulidarity]
    #22125594 - 08/22/15 05:36 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That's certainly true, but most of the stuff I'm interested in cannot be purchased new anymore (and certainly not at a reasonable price!), so I'm usually dealing with private people selling their used goods. I feel that in those situations, particularly the customs fees and taxes don't serve their intended purpose of protecting local manufacturers and I would advocate a much more lax regime for used goods for which no good new alternatives are available. It would benefit local economies as well as international trade.


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OfflineSoulidarity
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: koraks]
    #22125717 - 08/22/15 07:03 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

ya for sure, used goods can work out to be heaps cheaper if you're able to find a good deal on them. like those ebay bid things.



in the context that you're referring to i can see where you're coming from because its not directly competing with local industry and taxing non-commercial activity.

but shouldnt 2nd hand private sales be considered as non-commercial dealings and thus exempt from import/fees and taxes in the first place? or maybe i've got that wrong. prob best to stay on the safe side in over-protecting local industry though. those import taxes must be a massive ball breaker for import/export businesses.




also with that watch i mentioned earlier, the vendor said that the actual price of the watch was just above a threshold that incurred a 10% import tax, and he said he would list the price on paper just under the threshold so it wouldn't incur any import fees/tax which was awesome.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Soulidarity]
    #22125752 - 08/22/15 07:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah I agree that they should, but they aren't under the legislation here. It really sucks; the only exception is items up to a certain value that are traded within the EU. But that's no help when you want to be able to use the 2nd hand market overseas. It's legislation that thwarts people instead of supporting them.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: koraks]
    #22126752 - 08/22/15 12:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Yeah, although shipping rates from the US to e.g. the EU are so insane that you'd almost think the Americans would rather hold on to their stuff and not sell overseas. They'd help themselves by instating policies such as the Chinese, that make intercontinental shipping a non-issue. Seriously, I'd be buying stuff from the US all the time if I didn't have to pay about $100 more (shipping, customs and import taxes, but mostly shipping) for a $60 item :facepalm:

To give an example: say I'd want to purchase an old, second-hand large format camera lens that is priced really low at $125 - depending on the lens, that's a steal and I'd buy it with little hesitation. But look at what I actually pay for this $125 item:
* Shipping: $65
* Customs charge: around $20
* Import tax: ca. $30
Total costs, item + S&H&T: $240. That's nearly double the price of the original item. Go suck a fatty.





You are getting hosed on the shipping and other stuff or else you are confused. A camera lens is a light weight object. First class shipping to Canada is way less than $65, probably more like $8 to $10. Customs does not charge $20, I don't know what the tax is but $30 sounds high. I have sent many things to Canada and I know that is wrong.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22127107 - 08/22/15 01:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for your advice, but we're not talking about Canada here. We're talking about Europe as is clearly stated in the post you quoted. And yes, a camera lens is quite light (between 1/2lb and 5lb generally) but they don't fit the flat type of boxes that allow for shipping rates along the lines of $25. I'm well aware that US to Canada is a lot less costly.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: koraks]
    #22127198 - 08/22/15 02:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Well, the post said

>Import tax: ca. $30

So I assumed Canada, ca being the abbreviation.

It still sounds very inflated. I've sent packages to Europe and first class mail is still very low, like about $15 or so. No way a camera lens should weigh 5 lb.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22127229 - 08/22/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Just keep an eye on gas and produce prices. Those are the laymans economic crystal ball.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22127307 - 08/22/15 02:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Import tax: ca. $30

So I assumed Canada, ca being the abbreviation.




ca. = circa = approximately.

Quote:

No way a camera lens should weigh 5 lb.



A small Nikkor or Schneider 150/5.6 weighs only about a pound, a super angulon 165/8 including packaging is about 4lbs (the lens alone is about 1.5kg or a little over 3lbs). Many longer lenses with large coverage are even heavier.

About a week ago I asked for a quote for three shutters (about a pound in weight together) and shipping costs came out at over $60. 2 packages of x-ray film (maybe 2lbs in total) was around $35 because they fit into a flat parcel. A small 150/4.7 lens (less than a pound) cost me $100 or thereabouts but the total bill including shipping, handling and customs and taxes came out at over €200.


Edited by koraks (08/22/15 02:36 PM)


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InvisibleAdden
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: koraks] * 1
    #22127321 - 08/22/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

More importantly, can a five ounce swallow in a temperate climate carry a one pound coconut? Even if gripped by its husk?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Adden]
    #22127422 - 08/22/15 02:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If a chicken and a half lays an egg and a half in a day and a half how long does it take a monkey with a wooden leg to knock all the seeds out of a watermelon?


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OfflineSoulidarity
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: koraks]
    #22127511 - 08/22/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Yeah I agree that they should, but they aren't under the legislation here. It really sucks; the only exception is items up to a certain value that are traded within the EU. But that's no help when you want to be able to use the 2nd hand market overseas. It's legislation that thwarts people instead of supporting them.



That's fair enough, but it also sounds like this is also disregarding the size of the EU as well. Surely there would be some kind of option within Europe.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: koraks]
    #22127658 - 08/22/15 03:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

They are hosing you on the shipping. A 4lb package to Belgium costs about $41, $37 if done online. If its over 4lb it will cost more because first class is limited to that. A 5lb flat rate box will be about $66, breaking up the order so it doesn't go over 4 lb is a winning move.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22129693 - 08/23/15 06:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

This stuff tends to be impossible to fit into flat rate boxes; that only seems to work for film, not for stuff like lenses. Still your shipping rates seen lower than the various quotes and actual rates I've seen so far; which carrier do you use?

@soulidarity: the market for these things is limited. And apart from that, it doesn't change the principle.


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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: koraks]
    #22129892 - 08/23/15 08:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

USPS, first class is cheap up to 4lb and it does not matter the shape of the box. If its being sent from usa usps is the best option. UPS and the others are extremely expensive. Priority is expensive which kicks in over 4lb. You can look up the rates yourself online. Then of course there is global express if you want to spend a lot of money.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22130025 - 08/23/15 08:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah I checked FedEx and ups and they came out at $100 to $150 for a small 2lb package. Insane. USPS international flat rate envelope seems very attractive, but most items I'm interested in would not fit in the envelope. The medium sized flat rate box should suffice but that has a shipping cost of $63, which is exactly what I was quoted in the example I provided. Like I said earlier, the xray film that fits in an envelope is feasible in terms of shipping, slightly bigger items just don't work.


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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: koraks]
    #22130055 - 08/23/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You don't have to use flat rate. Priority mail international for 5 lb is $47.11 online for any shape box up to a fairly large size.

>Yeah I checked FedEx and ups and they came out at $100 to $150 for a small 2lb package. Insane.

They simply do not compete.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: shellzenone]
    #22130059 - 08/23/15 09:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shellzenone said:
What does this mean for our economy? I dont realy know much about economics...




The stock market is a predictive indicator. In other words, what happens on the stock market is not felt until later on in the real world.

So, if the crash continues you can expect that in the near future (6 months to a year) our economy will probably shrink, more unemployment, less job creation/hiring, less corporate profit, banks less willing to give out loans, etc.

If you don't have an attachment to the stock market you're not gonna notice anything. Could even help you with a drop in house prices and low gas prices.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22130240 - 08/23/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
You don't have to use flat rate. Priority mail international for 5 lb is $47.11 online for any shape box up to a fairly large size.




Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it! Given that an item is sufficiently attractive, this may be a good option and at least it saves another $15 or so. I'll keep it in mind for future purchases!


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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: Confucian]
    #22130318 - 08/23/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
Quote:

shellzenone said:
What does this mean for our economy? I dont realy know much about economics...




The stock market is a predictive indicator. In other words, what happens on the stock market is not felt until later on in the real world.

So, if the crash continues you can expect that in the near future (6 months to a year) our economy will probably shrink, more unemployment, less job creation/hiring, less corporate profit, banks less willing to give out loans, etc.

If you don't have an attachment to the stock market you're not gonna notice anything. Could even help you with a drop in house prices and low gas prices.




the problem with this is that the stock market can be artificially inflated and
deflated which leaves i as a shitty indicator of anything


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: The Doobie Dude]
    #22130344 - 08/23/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Doobie Dude said:
I means you either should vote Bernie Sanders or you will die.




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"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Re: Dow plummets 400+ points [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22132465 - 08/23/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

shellzenone said:
What does this mean for our economy? I dont realy know much about economics...



Very little.  The Dow goes up and the Dow goes down but it is not the economy.  Labor force participation, home sales, CPI, oil prices, GDP these are all much more important.



This^ it's going to affect you personally even less(Almost not at all)


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