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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Fruiting advice? (green contams)
    #22120645 - 08/21/15 03:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I am getting increasingly frustrated. My last attempt was a complete and utter failure. The incubation went perfectly but when it came down to fruiting they all got green mold and stopped producing mushrooms halfway through the first flush. With the first attempt I used the shotgun tek with the cakes on foil in my closet propped on top of shot glasses and on other tubs to keep the FAE good and off the floor.

I figured the problem was that my closet was 95 degrees and it was doomed to mold as a result. For THIS attempt I am using a homemade swamp cooler until I move into my new place and I have successfully been able to keep the room at 70-75 degrees. I have a hepa filter and fan which also seemed to lower the temp in the room. I follow all the proper sterile procedures. mask,shower cap,gloves and lysol before entering the room and/or handling the cakes....yet i STILL HAVE CONTAMS. What makes even less sense...is two of the jars that i thought had contams early on I placed in their own small tub and just stabbed the tub with a knife to give it a little more air and placed it in another room. A fairly dirty room with high heat/humidity. I have only handled the cake with my hands and taken no precautions yet these seem to be pinning faster without any problems. I dont get it at all. I am wondering if the shotgun tek is whats flawed because I have no idea what i could possible be doing wrong. I cant afford for this to keep happening. the cost of this project adds up fast.

I have included pictures. the small tub and cakes are the ones in the other room...the other pictures are of my setup and the the arrows on the cake pic are pointing to discoloration that is hard to see but in person it looks green. I'm hoping I figure out what is going wrong soon but, as far as trial and error goes, i cant make improvements if I dont know where i'm fucking up in the first place. If I need to make a post with step..by..step descriptions of everything I have done I will. I have since moved the 5/17 cakes that have that discoloration to the monotub on the left. still have 12 with no signs yet...though this is only 3 days into the fruiting stage.


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22120672 - 08/21/15 04:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The bluing near the arrows is bruising from you handling the cakes. 95F is definitely way too hot to fruit/colonize in. I'd never go above 80F and try and keep mine at a constant 70F or so.

You shouldn't have any fan in a room with a SGFC as it will dry out your cakes. I'd get rid of that and try and cool the room another way.

The other tub you have looks really small as well. You should try and have a neater area in your SGFC. I suspect covering the perlite with verm will block it and disrupt FAE from the bottom.

The cakes look super dry. How often are you misting and fanning?

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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: stareatclouds]
    #22120679 - 08/21/15 04:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I appreciate the reply. Though those spots aren't blue..they are a green tint. I don't even think I handled those much before I saw the discoloration. I live in Arizona and my apartments are shit. I didn't know til it was too late that they don't have a proper AC unit. I have no other way to cool the room. The most I can do is move the fan as far away as possible. I am misting 3 times a day but I can increase that to compensate. I really appreciate the input...still worried about the discoloration though. As far as the smaller tub...it's in a different room with because I thought it had contams. Only put them in a tub in the hopes of getting something out of them at least


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Offlinekeeno
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22120733 - 08/21/15 05:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

hard to say from the picture. normally trich (green foresat mold) won't grow on a newly birthed cake as there's no place for it to grow (the healthy mycelium isn't a good place for it to grow) however the pics do look a little suspect...

can you get another picture that's less blurry? put the cake down and try and steady the camera as much as possible?

does it look like this?


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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: keeno]
    #22120760 - 08/21/15 05:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

no...and honestly the color does look a little blue to me now...and the cakes that have the discoloration are deepening in color so i suppose bruising would make sense. the only thing I can think of is that when I birthed them they didn't just pop out..i had to bag the jars on the counter....unless there is some other magical way of getting the cakes out then that will continue to happen. the only issue I have is that this happened last time too...and the cakes continued to get dark and then started to grow visible mold. I just assumed this was the same shit. here is a better pic for you though. :p


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22120766 - 08/21/15 05:34 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

cool

relax and see what happens then :laugh:

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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: keeno]
    #22120823 - 08/21/15 06:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Though I am a little worried about the humidity...even before the fan was put in the room the shotgun tub didn't seem to be doing anything. I would expect humidity would mean there would be condensation on the sides and there is never so much as a drop. Now I'm wondering if I should just say fuck it..and put tape over all the holes. Maybe the real reason my last group of cakes stopped producing shrooms was because they dried out


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Offlinekeeno
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22120897 - 08/21/15 07:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

humidity on the sides of the box doesn't mean the humidity is there. it usually shows a temperature difference between the inside and outside of the box
a properly working SGFC doesn't have condensation on it. humidity is important, but not as important as Fresh Air Exchange, so DON'T tape up the holes


as long as you have 1/4" holes on all sides (including the bottom,  infact, especially the bottom, they allow the air to rise up through the damp perlite, gain humidity and pass on the benefits to the mushrooms)

don't tape it up, get rid of the tin foil tray underneath your SGFC, take a few deep breaths and believe that you will get joy at some point


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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: keeno]
    #22120907 - 08/21/15 07:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I did the tinfoil because my last setup molded..figured I'd change it a little for the hell of it I guess. But yea I'll do that immediately. Thank you for the info. :smile:


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22120929 - 08/21/15 07:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

welcome :laugh:

best of luck! and keep us updated

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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: keeno]
    #22120940 - 08/21/15 07:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I will. :smile:...realllllly hoping it turns out better than the last run through. I'll know in a few days


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Offlineinked4life
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22121358 - 08/21/15 09:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

temps are too high, if your place stays around 70 to 80 i would recommend getting rid of the heat source, it will just add to your frustration and care for your cakes as high temps  make it a perfect breeding ground for contams, also can dry your cakes out and cause them to bruise , the pic of the discoloration i believe is bruising from either handling the to much, misting them with a globby mister or from being to dry. with those heaters and high temps i believe that is the main suspect. start there. and i would make a lil bigger holes in that one fc as they look uneven in size, clean the holes up and that will help with fae. best of luck to ya.


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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: inked4life]
    #22121403 - 08/21/15 09:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

My apartment is that hot because I live in the desert. I am keeping the closet at 70-75 with a homemade swamp cooler. I can't possibly fix the tubs right now with all those cakes in them. Might have to do that next to round though


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22121444 - 08/21/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The bigger the room it's in the better. A closet is never enough fae. Also did I read that right? You have a fan going? No fans for a sgfc! When your shit is dry, it isn't a humidity problem. It means you need to be misting more. Keep them glistening wet. Make sure it has those crystal glistles. Stick your finger in the perlite. Make sure it's damp. Is it raised off the ground? How deep's the perlite?


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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: Mad Season]
    #22121459 - 08/21/15 09:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I have no choice but to have a fan and have it in a small room. My apartment is really fucking hot lol...the fan is facing The ground and ice to cool The room though The perlite is about 4 inches deep and the bins are propped up an,inch off bins underneath them..about 4 feet off the floor


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22121477 - 08/21/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I like them raised at least 6 inches off the surface under them. You don't want anything that could hinder how much air gets pulled in or out. Also 80F for fruiting is perfectly safe. For colonization it's crap. But for fruiting high temps aren't such a big deal.


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: Mad Season]
    #22121478 - 08/21/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Your SGFC is way to small, it cannot function properly and that's why your cakes are suffering. Go get yourself atleast a 66 quart tub and make sure there's 5+ inches of perlite and holes every 2 inches. I've seen some 30 quart sgfcs on here but they aren't ideal. You want 12-16 inches above the perlite. Those 8quarts make okay trays and dubtubs but not sgfcs.


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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: Appalachian Brony]
    #22121499 - 08/21/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What exactly does high temps for incubation cause to happen? Mold? Slow growth?..

And that kinda makes sense. A bigger tub with more perlite...course I can't do that now. Kinda too late. I'll just have to wait til I fruit my other 40 jars I have incubating


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22121540 - 08/21/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Bacteria thrives in hither temps, lowering your BE as well as increasing chances of early contams during fruiting. Also colonizing myc slows down after 80F.

Honestly the fc might not be ideal, but it really doesn't matter. Just keep them glistening through misting. That's the thing they need. If you can keep them glistening 24/7 through misting, you don't even a fc in under 10% humidity(another Open air grow). All problems of being dry are always from the grower not misting enough.

Also did you make sure the perlites wet? Are you misting the perlite thoroughly at least once a day?


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Edited by Mad Season (08/21/15 09:44 AM)

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OfflineAppalachian Brony
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: Mad Season]
    #22122194 - 08/21/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It's not too late, I think those cakes would flush well in a proper sgfc, being misted and fanned twice a day.

I disagree with misting being the key factor here. The mycelium needs evaporation from the surface of the substrate as a pinning trigger.

In an open air grow, especially with 10% humidity, there will be constant evaporation, so constant misting is necessary. I think cakes can be over misted, especially in a cramped fc where humidity is remaining high. Too high of humidity will retard evaporation and result in a weaker flush.


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: Appalachian Brony]
    #22122245 - 08/21/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

In my links it says in multiple places no pooling water. That's what too much is.. so I'm not disagreeing, nor did I say he should mist too much. I said glistening. You want them to be glistening CONSTANTLY. This will bring CONSTANT evaporation in a chamber with high fae.

Believe it or not, the smaller the chamber, the better the fae. Why? Less area that needs to be exchanged. This is why you can do invitro with jars by leaving the lid loose, because the space in the jar is so small, so it gets many more exchanges per hour. If you left the lid loose on a mono (with no holes) you'd see very starved fruits. That cobbled with the guy shooting a fan at the chamber when you're clearly not supposed to.. how on earth would he have fae and high humidity problems?.. it's obvious it's dry in the pics. They're not glistening at all, and the verm is light, not the dark colour it's supposed to be. It's bruising from being dry.

A larger chamber will up humidity, and means he'd have to mist less. In his particular situation he either needs a larger chamber, or mist more OFTEN (not mist too much) to keep those cakes glistening 24/7. Either way he'll see lots of fruits.


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Edited by Mad Season (08/21/15 12:39 PM)

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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: Mad Season]
    #22122287 - 08/21/15 12:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm going out of town tomorrow for a day or two and my roommate is taking over....I absolutely have to figure I it how to get these going. The pic up too of the small bin...well those cakes are pinning like crazy...all of my other cakes in the monotubs are dry and no pins to speak up. Starting to think I need to say FUCK the shotgun tubs and just place the cakes in small tubs like the one shown. That tilub is just sitting in my room..85-90 degrees with very high humidity and no contams to speak of...please tell me how that makes sense


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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: Mad Season]
    #22122307 - 08/21/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Honestly don't know if I trust the shotgun tek anymore...at least not at my current apartment...it was a complete failure last time...and now I can't even get pins. Either way I have to do something about this today or its all screwed again.


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22122369 - 08/21/15 01:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

If you show pics of your pins I bet they'd say they're starved of fae (assuming you're saying they're in tubs with no holes).

If you want more humidity, get a bigger chamber and raise them more than 1 inch from the boxes under them. 6 inches minimum.

Also they're dry because you aren't misting often enough!! You have to mist when they need it! Don't just complain they're dry :/


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: Mad Season]
    #22122412 - 08/21/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It's the tub pictured above...the small one..and I put knife holes all around it plus I fan. And  idk why getting a bigger tub and raising it a little higher would magically fix the problem. My last batch may have molded but they pinned . these, while in a proper temp, are dry. And I have been misting a lot.  The small bin cakes pinning a lot...it's sitting out in the heat of my apartment...the humidity is high. It seems perfect...I can't afford to take a risk of making minor changes like that when I'm going out of town unless it's a guarantee it will work. There are LITERALLY no pins in the shotgun tubs...but my small tub in higher temps than recommended in a unsterile enviroment are growing perfectly. What should I conclude from that? Beacaue I don see how a larger tub is going to make that drastic of an impact.


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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22122508 - 08/21/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Look..."glistening" pins. absolutely no growth on anything in the shotgun tubs.


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22122548 - 08/21/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I wouldn't call that a sgfc man.. that's extremely deviated from the tek. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20195542

Read that top to bottom. It explains why the bottom holes are the most important, and why raising the chamber so they're not restricted is important. They're literally the source of all humidity.

Also a bigger chamber will have less air exchanges per hour.. so yeah it'll have more humidity.

They look glistening now. Gotta keep em like that. Sometimes shit takes longer to pin. It's called patience. I'm sure you've heard that in this hobby before :lol:

Also everything in fruiting is unsterile. Even the shit I got going. Ambient air during fruiting doesn't cause contams. Even though that's where the contam may have come from. Why contams come is because the myc was weakened.
Quote:

Using a syringe instead of clean af agar is a lot more risky, and when it contaminates you have no idea what to blame.

What's always to blame is your mycelium shit the bed. Not your environment.
Quote:

Mad Season said:
Um weakened mycelium comes from a huge array of things. Including spawn. Always ALWAYS work on improving your prep procedures.

Quote:

Mad Season said:
There's lots of reasons. All of them stemming from the fact the mycelium shit the bed. And if it does sooner than it should, it's a problem that should be fixed. bacteria(more bacteria) through improperly sterilized grains(I've upped my pc times and changed grains too many times to count, but I'm loving oats, I do most qt jars 2 hours @15-20psi), improper pasteurization, improper hydration, hidden contams from improper procedures and there's many more stuff I bet you could improve on.

P.S. I didn't say toss them all. Just the ones with trich, and to always work on improving the conditions for the myc. The healthier the myc, the better things will be :thumbup:



All things agar:

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Quote:

hiperhiper said:
so what's the right procedure with grains?
I've checked the teks and nobody said anything about this. I didn't know I was not supposed to use syringe on grains. What is cleaning up syringe on agar? what does it mean?




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18431006
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18430998
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21889950/page/1








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Edited by Mad Season (08/21/15 01:49 PM)

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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: Mad Season]
    #22122587 - 08/21/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The foil wasn't there when I originally did it. I put that on this go around to stop too much air exchange because I thought that was part of why it all molded before...I've changed it. No difference. Its not maintaining humidity/moisture at all.....keep in mind that these are the SAME EXACT tubs I used last time. They pinned and grew quickly. There were just contams. The only thing that's different between now than then is that I got the temperature of the room down. This is why I'm asking...and as you can see btw the pics I just posted a second ago...the standalone small tub with minimal air exchange plus misting and fanning is pinning fine.


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22122610 - 08/21/15 01:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah just gotta be patient. Lower temps do reduce humidity (evaporation) though. In my first grow log it took about a month to see a first flush from all 17 trays. Just because something isn't pinning at the same time, doest mean it's shit. As long as it isn't contaminated, you've just gotta keep them happy and be patient.

Making a proper sgfc will definitely improve results though.


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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: Mad Season]
    #22122632 - 08/21/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

A month for your first flush? I may be new at this but I'm pretty sure that's that's highly unusual. I'm expecting it to pin in a matter of days...as far as I'm concerned. The first flush should take no more than a week and a half from start to finish. I don't have the time to be waiting a month...much less the patience for that.


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22122653 - 08/21/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yep a month. Sometimes it happens. Nothing you can do :shrug:. As long as there's no visible contams, it'll pin when it's ready. You're at the mushrooms mercy! If you don't have patience you should get out early. This hobby is a demand of patience. Just make more projects to fill your time if you're impatient, and keep the things you've got going happy.


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Edited by Mad Season (08/21/15 02:01 PM)

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OfflineAuoraBorealis
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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: Mad Season]
    #22122710 - 08/21/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yea..im not willing to accept that. Having to wait that long isn't even worth anyone's time. Of course I've read that it can take a couple weeks..but never a month. And no one I have ever met that grew had to wait that long...not saying you're wrong...just saying that's ridiculous. I mean if anything, I don't see why I shouldn't just induce pinning early. It took 2 days for the other cakes to start. I'm also moving out of my apartment relatively soon so waiting that long literally is just not an option. But aside from that...with cakes averaging 3-7 grams per flush...waiting a month each time?...definitely not worth it.


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22122728 - 08/21/15 02:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Hey that was the last one in 17 trays.. Most people don't do that many stuff. The average was about 2 weeks to pin. Also that's why you do bulk broski! Anyone who does looks back at cakes and laughs


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: Mad Season]
    #22122766 - 08/21/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I intend to when I move out of here. I live in a very ghetto area and I don't feel safe. I mean a guy forced his way into my apt with a gun a couple weeks ago...not,to,mention my apt is just shady in general. Last time I go through that realtor..... In the meantime I have 70 jars that I need to finish with in the next couple months. I'm impatient because I am limited on time..it's not like I have a choice right now.

I might try doubling the depth of the perlite...


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22122783 - 08/21/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Make a few proper sgfcs. You won't regret it man. Especially if you have so many cakes lol

Quote:

mrbart4444 said:
this guys knows what he is doing though for sure.





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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: Mad Season]
    #22122808 - 08/21/15 02:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm going to..but not for the ones I already birthed. I need to research what's proper apparently. The tub in the picture you just posted doesn't look any bigger than mine...smaller in fact. I had thought the size of the tub should be related to how many jars you have so they can be close together.


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Re: Fruiting advice? (green contams) [Re: AuoraBorealis]
    #22122870 - 08/21/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure how big it is. Everyone recommends 66 qt tho with a minimum of 4 inches of perlite. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20195542

This is really all you need to know with sgfc


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