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Deviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: Taking high amounts of LSD without the 'negative experience' ??? [Re: LSDreamer]
#22119725 - 08/21/15 01:02 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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LSDreamer said:
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Deviate said: you need to be pure and holy beforehand, not attached to yourself or the world but wholly devoted to God or at least aspiring toward that goal. If you are impure, or attached to worldly things then there is always the potential for a bad experience, as the LSD might decide to show you the folly in that. This is no small task. When you play with psychedelics you are playing with powerful energy and this is not something you can do casually and expect to only have positive experiences. You might, but you might not. You have to be devoted to the spiritual life, then all your experiences can become catalysts for growth and you will no longer care so much whether they are good or bad.
What the fuck? I have never once had a bad experience on LSD, and I'm an atheist, rationalist, and materialist. This right here is total nonsense.
Friend, maybe it is your reading comprehension that is the problem. I said:
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When you play with psychedelics you are playing with powerful energy and this is not something you can do casually and expect to only have positive experiences. You might, but you might not.
Might is a very important word. It means that I acknowledge it is absolutely possible to only have positive experiences without any spiritual preparation. However, that is not what the thread was asking.
Further, you say:
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The best things you can do to not have a rough time on psychs is to accept things as they are and not resist any of the effects
In other words, faith.
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Regularly practicing mindfulness and taking time to meditate every day will definitely improve your life across the board. There were several months not too long ago that I made sure to practice mantra meditation every day. Once you get good at it, it can produce deep relaxation and even euphoria. Studies have shown that as little as 15 minutes a day is beneficial.
Now you confess to doing spiritual practices.
We may speak a different language, but I don't see why you think that means we aren't on at least a similar page regarding psychedelics.
It was Tim Leary and Ram Daas who proposed the religious model for interpreting psychedelic experience and I tend to agree with them. How can I put this, just because you consider yourself an atheist doesn't necessarily mean you are worse off spiritually than a Christian. Don't get me wrong, being an atheist certainly isn't what I would recommend for anyone spiritually because it's simply incorrect. There is a creator or source, from which all things originate. It is hard for me to understand how anyone experienced in psychedelics can fail to apprehend this, but that's another debate. Has LSD really never showed you that all is composed of the same basic energy which originates from a transcendent source? Or to make it even easier on you, forget the transcendent part for the moment and tell me do you believe in nature and recognize that you are a part of nature, a creation of nature? Yes? and would you say that nature is beautiful, majestic, mysterious and powerful? That's God. The only difference between us is that you are apparently missing the transcendent (supernatural) aspect of God. But that's ok, you are still acknowledging the manifest form of God if you acknowledge nature. That's good enough for me. I feel it proves my point well enough and we don't need to even get into discussing the supernatural.
So to clarify, all human beings are in one spiritual (energetic) state or another but your beliefs only play a part in that. It is good to have sound beliefs and bad to have unsound ones, that's for sure, but it's far from the only thing that counts. The universe is energetic. It responds to energy and vibration, not English. So you can use the word atheist, but the universe doesn't care so much about the words you are using to describe yourself, as it cares about the energy you are sending out. SO an atheist who is very loving and compassionate and unselfish in their actions toward others, might actually be in a superior state spiritually to a Christian who is hateful and full of fear. Read the Bible sometime, you'd be amazed at how psychedelic it is.
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LSDreamer
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Re: Taking high amounts of LSD without the 'negative experience' ??? [Re: Deviate]
#22119780 - 08/21/15 01:14 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Mindfulness and meditation are features of some religions, but are in no way inherently "spiritual". You sorta seem to be using " spiritual" in a way that means mental health and psychological well-being.
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Deviate
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Re: Taking high amounts of LSD without the 'negative experience' ??? [Re: LSDreamer]
#22120017 - 08/21/15 01:50 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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LSDreamer said: Mindfulness and meditation are features of some religions, but are in no way inherently "spiritual".
Because (from my perspective) human beings are spiritual beings, just about everything we do effects us spiritually, especially spiritual practices like meditation. I'm not saying that there aren't "conventional" benefits to meditation, a clearer, more focused mind, less clingy emotionally, etc. I am simply saying that from a spiritual perspective, having a clearer, more focused, less clingy mind is very beneficial. Whether or not the meditator is aware of this is irrelevant. That mental clinglyiness is responsible for much suffering and when we take psychedelics, it can become even more pronounced. If however, one cultivates dispassion toward the physical sense and the ability to let go and go with the flow, then it can become much easier navigate psychedelic experiences as well as every day life experiences.
Again I want to emphasize that if you go in this direction, that is toward mindfulness, awareness and dispassion, it doesn't matter whether you are doing it because you think it will bring you nearer to God or because you believe there will be some "conventional" or "secular" benefit (as studies have shown benefits to meditation). It is good to believe in God or some spiritual ideal but it is not essential in order to make spiritual progress. An atheist can make spiritual progress.
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You sorta seem to be using " spiritual" in a way that means mental health and psychological well-being.
Is that a problem? I mean, what else would it mean? Although I will clarify, to me spiritual health means true health. Naturally mental and psychological health will flow from spiritual health and likewise cultivating mental and psychological health will be good for one's spiritual health. The only distinction I'd like to make is that it is possible to be well adjusted to a sick society. One could be considered mentally healthy by that standard and yet be quite ill spiritually.
So your spiritual health is your overall attitude toward life, all of life. And that is why it is important in regard to the psychedelic experience. Psychedelics have the power to operate outside the bounds of conventional cultural programming. So someone who is mentally healthy relative to the society they live in, might find they are not so healthy when facing a powerful psychedelic experience. That is the beauty of the psychedelic experience. It can bring us face to face with our own demons.
Edited by Deviate (08/21/15 01:52 AM)
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ONE OZ SLUG
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Registered: 05/22/13
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Loc: TX
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Re: Taking high amounts of LSD without the 'negative experience' ??? [Re: Deviate]
#22122198 - 08/21/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I worship satan and slaughter cute bunny rabbits, and all my trips have just been dandy
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DurgaDurg
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Re: Taking high amounts of LSD without the 'negative experience' ??? [Re: LSDreamer]
#22122216 - 08/21/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Meditation is indeed spiritual. You might want to look up the actual definition. I dont think many people on here know the definition.
-------------------- When you see him look him in the eye, look him in the eye and he won’t dare to follow If you need to, hook him with your right, hook him with your right till he wiggles and wallows He sleeps atop a bag of raven’s legs, curled up rats napping by his head Takes his eye out with a ball point pen And makes nunchaku with his torn off legs You wake up with a hatchet over your head You wake up with a hatchet over your head
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Rebelutionsssss
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Re: Taking high amounts of LSD without the 'negative experience' ??? [Re: DurgaDurg]
#22122271 - 08/21/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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200mics is a high dose to you? so what you're saying is "how do I take a high dose of LSD without really tripping"
Buy the ticket take the ride man
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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Deviate
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Re: Taking high amounts of LSD without the 'negative experience' ??? [Re: ONE OZ SLUG]
#22122300 - 08/21/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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ONE OZ SLUG said: I worship satan and slaughter cute bunny rabbits, and all my trips have just been dandy 
Satanism is a form of spiritually too so that doesn't surprise me. One can learn to navigate and use psychedelics for both good and evil. Of course, I only recommend using them for good but they can certainly be used for evil.
In fact, this is why many Christians are against using psychedelics. Nowhere in the Bible does it explicitly prohibit the use of entheogenic plants, however it does forbid sorcery. When Christian missionaries came into contact with indigenous peoples who used psychedelics, they assumed they were doing sorcery.
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LSDreamer
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Re: Taking high amounts of LSD without the 'negative experience' ??? [Re: Deviate]
#22122323 - 08/21/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You could fill a full set of encyclopedias with things Christians believe that aren't in the bible. And indigenous populations used psychedelics to commune with spirits. That's definitely sorcery by the bible's standards.
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Deviate
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Re: Taking high amounts of LSD without the 'negative experience' ??? [Re: LSDreamer]
#22122391 - 08/21/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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LSDreamer said: You could fill a full set of encyclopedias with things Christians believe that aren't in the bible. And indigenous populations used psychedelics to commune with spirits. That's definitely sorcery by the bible's standards.
Not necessarily. Merriam Webster defines sorcery as 1 : the use of power gained from the assistance or control of evil spirits especially for divining :
Many Christians have had contact with angels and/or saints. This is not considered sorcery.
Sorcery is when you use spiritual power for your own selfish ends, contrary to the will of God. Yes, some native peoples did/do that.
But it is also possible to commune with spirits for healing and or/guidance purposes. This sort of communion is accepted to God. When I trip cactus, I often commune with peyote spirits and these spirits seek nothing but to heal me. I don't feel like this is sorcery.
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