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Offlineragadinks
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Faster aging on PDA
    #2211551 - 12/31/03 12:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

have read in a book that mycelium that grows on PDA ages faster since PDA contains more glucose ? The author recommends DFA or MEA. Is that true ?

That's the book.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: ragadinks]
    #2211570 - 12/31/03 12:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

PDA does usually contain more d-glc., but I can't imagine it's a huge problem since almost all experiments I read are done on PDA. Did he prove that with an experiment, or just make an assumption? I would assume he means generations to senesce a strain -- PDA keeps mycelium alive just like anything else.... If he means time to senesce a strain he should know multiple generations shouldn't be done on a single type of media, anyway....

PDA is fine -- I've had better results using PDA then MEA, anyway, so it's usually my agar of choice.

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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: micro]
    #2211941 - 12/31/03 03:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The author writes in that book that strains senesce faster on PDA due to the glucose in it. That is why he is using MEA and DFA. It was just stated in the book like this. I do not know whether this statement is backed up by experiment or just an assumption. But as far as I know the author of this statement is a mycrobiologist and so I hope his statements are based on some experience ...
I usually use PDYA and hope that I can do that in future, too  :frown:


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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: ragadinks]
    #2212138 - 12/31/03 05:20 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Isn't senescense just due to high number of reproductions and the telemeres being depleted. So if PDA is higher in glucose amd nutrients, or an easier environment for reproduction to occur in, couldn't reproduction occur faster with less nutritional barriers to overcome and thereby aging it faster?

Peace - @cro


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: @cro]
    #2212160 - 12/31/03 05:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Isn't senescense just due to high number of reproductions and the telemeres being depleted.




Yes.

Quote:

So if PDA is higher in glucose amd nutrients, or an easier environment for reproduction to occur in, couldn't reproduction occur faster with less nutritional barriers to overcome and thereby aging it faster?




Not really. The size of the petri would limit the number of times it would reproduce. I don't think it's a big deal.

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Invisible@cro
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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: micro]
    #2212181 - 12/31/03 05:48 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Sure if growth was contained, but then senescense wouldn't occur at all. I thought we were assuming unlimited transfers, in which case only speed of coloniztion would matter?


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Offlinejustsmurfy
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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: micro]
    #2212296 - 12/31/03 06:39 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

micro said:
Quote:

Isn't senescense just due to high number of reproductions and the telemeres being depleted.



Yes.




I'm not so sure of that. What makes me wonder is what I understand to be the largest lifeform on the planet: a huge mycelial mat in some forest in Colorado. I'm prety well convinced that there are differences in telomerase activy in plants and animals- I think of grape and apple cultivars that have been cloned successively for several hundred and sometimes thousands of years. If the telomeres degraded after each cell division, it seems there would be nothing left of the chromsomes at this point (=premature aging? what's a prematurely aged plant look like, anyways?). It seems to me that almost any acres-large organism would likely suffer telomere delpletion and then genetic damage unless telomerase activity differs from that in animals.

It also seems to me that for telomere depletion to occur, it would take more than a single petri dish's worth of growth for it to become evident.

-JustSmurfy


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: justsmurfy]
    #2212915 - 01/01/04 05:45 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I also wonder how the mycelium of this Armillariella mellea in Colorado could have become so huge when is aging like that ?


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Offlinellamaboy
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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: ragadinks]
    #2212918 - 01/01/04 05:55 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i could be wrong about all of this, but as i understand it, when you clone something and keep using that same genetic material over and over again, it begins to break down(whether it be telomeres or what not) but with say that giant fungal colony in colorado, it's still breeding, and thus introducing genetic variability...just because it's a huge single life form, doesn't mean that the mycelium isn't undergoing karyogamy. and if it is, then telomeres aren't really going to be displaced.


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OfflineCaptainFuture
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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: llamaboy]
    #2212966 - 01/01/04 07:59 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Hi there,
my favorite ist MEA, but I use the much cheaper brown ME, although some experts say its caramelizing when sterilized. I have good results on the classic receipe- only when I use much more than the 20gr. on 1Liter it makes the mycel grow stopping after initial growth.

PDA behaves in my case often like honey. It lowers the groth rate a lot and mycelia seems to thinner on this Agar. It helps a bit using more potato and less Dextrose. But my second choice is DFA using the buiscuit DF type and mixing/filtering it before cooking with agar. On this media mycelia grows well but you can't see through it- thats a big minus on it.

For Pans I use cow dung and for my semilanceata and mexicana I use horse dung in the normal MEA or DFA. (a few wet pieces in the petri)

Greez
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Edited by CaptainFuture (01/01/04 08:01 AM)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: CaptainFuture]
    #2213036 - 01/01/04 11:38 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

quote:
"only when I use much more than the 20gr. on 1Liter it makes the mycel grow stopping after initial growth."

--------------------------------------------------

I have much better luck mixing up a very weak batch of agar. It seems the mycelia does better when it's a bit hungry. Also, I can't imagine letting mycelia grow long enough on agar to induce senescense.
I think the type of agar is up to individual taste and preference. The main point of agar is to isolate strains/contams and then move on to grains as quickly as possible.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #2220022 - 01/05/04 08:57 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)



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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: ragadinks]
    #2220189 - 01/05/04 10:07 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ragadinks said:
I also wonder how the mycelium of this Armillariella mellea in Colorado could have become so huge when is aging like that ?




Some species degrade faster then other. I have noticed that Pleurotus djamor culture slowly looses pink color and Morchella esculenta forms less and less sclerotia on agar. I think that senescence is a "bug" of fast growing species.
Armillarea grows slowly but unstoppable. It's very weird mushroom, the only I've seen that grows inside of agar and not only on the surface:



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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: zeronio]
    #2221156 - 01/05/04 07:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Woow, great picture ! How did you make that ?
By the way, has anybody ever succeeded in getting to fruit Armillariella mellea ? I like it's taste.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Faster aging on PDA [Re: ragadinks]
    #2222161 - 01/06/04 03:17 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It's a macro photo of a Armillariella (Armillarea) tabescens petri dish. A. mellea has almost identical looking mycellium. Unfortunately I wasn't successful in fruiting them. :frown:


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