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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Soul Shock
#22112680 - 08/19/15 03:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes folks, another thread on my ongoing issues. Is my life-changing encounter with a stranger (not a crush or infatuation) totally explained by brain chemistry? If so, what caused it? Why this woman and not the previous 50 dates if it was just releasing old memories and grief? I have had a few one-night stands since my break-up with no emotional crash.
Here is some more mystical mumbo-jumbo that closely matches my feelings/experiences:
If you’ve met someone who’s changed you forever
If you love someone so much you realize you just weren’t alive before them
If you’ve met someone who’s awakened you to the unbelievable beauty of existence
If you’ve met someone who is more you than even you are (didn't feel this one)
If you miss someone so much you can’t even conceive of existing without them
If you've lost someone and it feels like your soul left with them then read on…
When someone you have a deep connection with suddenly pulls away, the dis-connect leaves you feeling as if your soul has left your body, like an empty shell. You just can’t get back to reality and you can feel as if you simply exist.
This experience is similar to grieving the death of a loved one and I know many counselors, at least those who accept and understand connections, who will treat this pain in the same way as a bereavement.
What we're talking about here is not a conventional emotional relationship. A soul connection is the most powerful soul level connection with someone and when separations like this occur you just can't "get over it" or "move on" however hard you try. Many people can't eat sleep or work for a long time, a lot end up on medication and in counseling.
And one more. This one is almost exactly what I experienced/am experiencing:
Twin Flame
-The first thing about a twin flame connection is that meeting them feels like you have met God. This is not just a metaphor or symbolic for how great you feel, this is an actual occurrence where you meet the creator of the universe and all life inside yourself. There is nothing more holy. This connection is completely spiritual and you become consumed and burned up with divine love. You will feel it not just physically but emotionally, mentally and religiously too. You will want to worship them as you see your perfect godself reflected back at you.
-You are in an initial state of bliss, you often cannot think or even move for hours on end each day, and this lasts for a long time, making you incapable of functioning and continuing life at a normal rate. You feel like you're in a bubble of incredible energy where time and the rest of the world doesn't exist. You spend most of your time spaced out on what feels like ecstasy, tons of chemicals are released in your body and you are flying on an incredibly intense high. It is literally like being drugged up and often consecutive sick days are needed to be taken from work.
-Whether you were spiritual or not before, suddenly you are and everything in the entire universe makes sense. There is perfect order and you realise and understand everything about life. It is like being given a key to the book of life and all the secrets pour into your mind. There is nothing hidden any longer, you are one with all life and you cry uncontrollably in wonder and joy at everything that has been revealed to you. You feel like destiny really does exist after all.
-After the bliss stage you go through such an incredible purging that you feel like you had taken a trip to heaven and then were plunged into hell. Again this is not symbolic or exaggerated, this is actually how it feels. You face everything inside yourself, all the old habits, baggage and negativity you didn't realize was still there. You are faced with your unconscious self and forced to feel it, deal with it, and release it. Nothing can remain shrouded or hidden in darkness.
My mood swings are lessening, but the extreme sense of loss lingers and it is almost unbearable. My shrink simply calls it a fixation. Friends ask what if we got together and she turned out to be more psycho than I am? Doesn't matter. I would literally lay down my life for this stranger and would still marry her tomorrow if the door reopened.
Confused in Conclusionland
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
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I prescribe a ride on the soul train.
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falcon



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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
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i've experienced this at least 4 times in my life..
i dont think it was simple brain chemistry either..
something really deep happened..
u dont just meet someone for a couple of minutes and they end up changing ur life forever just from a simple glance..
sadly i never pursued it any further, but i will always wonder, what if?..
perhaps i just wasnt ready for it..
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Re: Soul Shock [Re: falcon]
#22112972 - 08/19/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That twin flames bit sums up an experience I had with my ex on lsd. Almost to the tee. We have both gone over how silly it is to say aloud but in a few moments during a loving embrace we both were convinced we met God, and believe it as much as one can given the circumstances.
My heart has never given her up and would still believe she is the only one despite being a loving relationship at the moment.
It is a shame and in the time spent shortly after our break up (and also further down the road as it comes in waves that spread further and futher apart yet never cease) I was in a state that reminds me much of yours.
There is a feeling of mistake and shame, and while mine was ending the relationship (an act that to this day confuses me) or yours spilling yourself too rapidly and scaring her away (or so I thought you had said) I'm not sure if they're related or even matter but put a pin I'm that because they might.
The next step is the dilemma you're in now I would wager. As someone who had also never really believed or felt that kind of love the proper intellectual discourse is that of your last through threads: looking through the rubble to see if our biochemistry is prankin us or some other such past-related behavior.
The final step I've never gone past is the incessant longing and chiming away that maybe love stories aren't all bullshit or that some have been true, and the wonder if this is the closing-opportunity to do something important and fight for the one you love. The dilemma is then the fear that you'll fight and he'll even WIN but in the end it really was some projection of a mixed up psychology or what not. That's where pull that pin off the board and we're stuck with our will in one hand and our fear and shame in the other.
I don't know my friend, I certainly didn't write this post because I have a solution but more because I feel ya. It's rough. But hey since you barely know each other anyways I would personally love to see you go for a three-point romantic gesture. For better or worse.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Soul Shock [Re: Tropism]
#22113049 - 08/19/15 05:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks all for sharing your stories and commiserating with me.
There is no romantic gesture to be made.
Her last words to me on the phone were "I can't wait to see you in the fall!"
Then after me dumping a ton of crazy in her lap vie e-mail, her last written words wee "Don't ever contact me again!"
Not much wiggle room there before the restraining order is filed. I am handcuffed with no place to go except to find a substitute. I signed onto a dating website as per my shrink's request, but have no interest.
At least I am getting in great shape. My only "plan" - and lord knows I need one - is to one day show-off my physical transformation and say "Hey, this is nothing compared to my emotional transformation." The funny thing is, she was perfectly fine with my lumpier self, so it may mean nothing.
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Hmm, well then sorry for the misunderstanding there, in my imagination that door was still open which I've only found creates more problems internally. In this case though your therapist may be correct in that it is a fixation, but it is the nature of human beings and not specifically negative, the tragedy is when our fixation ends on a loss but you happen to be in luck that you seems to be an individual that will find something to take away from it. Never know what's ahead in the road, a shitty experience might have kick started your heart just in time to lead to something else by the end. Optimism ain't my shtick but I recognize I can't walk through a door I'm ignoring as a possibility. Hang in there man.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

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Re: Soul Shock [Re: Tropism] 1
#22113556 - 08/19/15 06:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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My turn to share in the collective grieving OC. Just as you and Trop have felt those 'Twin Flame' experiences, so did I with my wife. And just as described in the OP, it was nothing short of divine. Bliss, connection, feeling high on life, etc - it all resonates so deeply with me as to how it once was.
And now she's gone so far off the rails I don't know if I'll ever get her back again. She's in rehab for the next 3 weeks for her alcoholism and I don't know who I'm gonna be meeting when she comes out. She's a broken woman and she's (I think subconsciously) tried in every way to sabotage our relationship. There's literally nothing left she could do to push me away. My mind is telling me there's a 50/50 chance from here on out, and so many have commended me on doing the right thing, although I don't really know what my heart is saying right now. I don't think it's recovered from the damage that's been done.
My practices I've developed over the years have kept me strong and moving forward, but if it were not for my sheer determination in the face of adversity which is, by some blessing, a part of my character I think I'd have collapsed by now.
Like you OC, I never figured a woman would have captured my heart and soul in such an esoteric manner. But she did. And for 2 years it was bliss. But the damage to my life that has followed has been insurmountable.
I guess there's only one thing that one can take from an experience like this. To endure and to grow.
p.s - all this Twin Flame stuff that's been coming up seems to only exist to then cause massive pain. Does that kinda feeling ever last for anyone?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Thanks all for sharing your stories and commiserating with me.
There is no romantic gesture to be made.
Her last words to me on the phone were "I can't wait to see you in the fall!"
Then after me dumping a ton of crazy in her lap vie e-mail, her last written words wee "Don't ever contact me again!"
Not much wiggle room there before the restraining order is filed. I am handcuffed with no place to go except to find a substitute. I signed onto a dating website as per my shrink's request, but have no interest.
At least I am getting in great shape. My only "plan" - and lord knows I need one - is to one day show-off my physical transformation and say "Hey, this is nothing compared to my emotional transformation." The funny thing is, she was perfectly fine with my lumpier self, so it may mean nothing.
I'm trying to convert my lesbian neighbor. It's all going to end badly, so just wait. I'll be able to share some misery later.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Why don't you just become a Caitlin? Problem solved!
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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I have some small inkling of what you are going through as I lived with an alcoholic woman for three years. The BIG difference was - I was never in love with her. We were best racquetball buddies for like a long time, yet I had zero interest in her romantically. She was super-fit and an ex-gymnast.
One day, a make friend said "Why don't you ask Cheryl out?" I replied "Are you kidding? We are as different as night and day!" Even though I am a shroomer, Cheryl was all punked out, with dyed spikey hair, tats and piercings and part of her head shaved, whereas I am very conservative.
One night after we paired up on the courts, kicking ass on all male team challengers, we were feeling pretty good and she suggested we go get a drink. In five years we had never did anything outside the court. We both got drunk and frisky and ending up literally fucking for two days, both of us calling in to work sick. We moved in together shortly thereafter.
Flash forward a few years. Cheryl is out partying EVERY night and coming home totally wasted. Zero doubt she is cheating on me. She wonders why she is failing college - duh!
One night I wake up in a giant pool of her piss. She is practically comatose as I cannot wake her. I am terrified and wonder if I should call 911. I say nothing the next day figuring she will be embarrassed, but no! A month later I get the repeat swimming pool in bed. Yech!
I said flatly "Seek help or I am leaving!" She blamed me for her drinking (I was never abusive in any way.) so I packed up and moved as soon as I could and never looked back.
Dude, I hope you find some way to sever the tie as you will likely drown with her.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Then after me dumping a ton of crazy in her lap vie e-mail, her last written words wee "Don't ever contact me again!"
Not much wiggle room there before the restraining order is filed.
Just say your troublesome teenage nephew got on your email and pulled a prank on you.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Manipulation and deceit are the cornerstones of a solid relationship.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Hey, now you get it! I think you two will be alright.
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viktor
psychotechnician



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Is it possible that you're an extremely shallow and vacuous human being, and so your first real emotional experience with another person made you shit yourself on account of emotional immaturity?
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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sprinkles
otd president


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sounds like addiction to me rather than soul mate malarkey. Just my opinion, which means nothing.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Me, too, but why now, why this one out of the thousands of women I have met? I am still trying to make sense of it.
It is the first time in 60 years that I felt like home. This was not lust or puppy love. Not saying I buy the soul nonsense, but my shrink just leaves it at "you had a massive dopamine spike". This imprinted the night and the woman at the deepest level. He has no explanation, just current evaluation based on brain chemical balance.
Perhaps I will never understand and just have to leave it under the unexplained file.
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sprinkles
otd president


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excuse me, did you just say 60 years?
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OrgoneConclusion
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Yes. Is it a sin to get old or just to get old on The Shroomery?
That is the thing. I totally gave up on romance and dating long ago. And then this super-fine babe, young enough to be my daughter, makes a play for me and I have an emotional collapse. My first ever episode. No history of mental illness and my shrink says it is unlikely to reoccur.
All of the crap from my entire life, I vomited at once. Suddenly, I was struggling to survive, drowning, in fact, and grabbed on to her as a lifeline. The perfect setup for a second date. 
My serotonin levels were so low, I am lucky I didn't do something even more stupid. Doc, sez it was not my fault and that my anxiety and fear was to be expected.
Was it? Dunno. It is the old "Which came first?" question.
All I know is that there is now an emptiness I never knew existed.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

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I find it interesting that you said this:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Dude, I hope you find some way to sever the tie as you will likely drown with her. 
After you said this:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Friends ask what if we got together and she turned out to be more psycho than I am? Doesn't matter. I would literally lay down my life for this stranger and would still marry her tomorrow if the door reopened.
Is it a case that it is easier to be objective because my situation is not your own or are you not taking onboard how similarly our souls were captured by a woman?
Also, in your reading that you have done, have you ever heard of one of these 'Twin Flame' experiences working out in the long run? I'm really curious about this...
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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trunksan
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I've read your other post about what's happened with this woman. I'm usually very good at finding solutions for these kind of situations (couples having problems or generally relationship problems). However, I must admit that your case is very complicated.
If you truly have so strong feelings for this person than I suggest you don't give up. Use these feelings of frustration/despair as the drive for becoming a better version of yourself, sort out you well-being, find your balance and in a few months time try to get in contact with her again.
And, for fuck's sake, forget that marriage talk, that's what probably freaked her out.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Quote:
If you truly have so strong feelings for this person than I suggest you don't give up. Use these feelings of frustration/despair as the drive for becoming a better version of yourself, sort out you well-being, find your balance and in a few months time try to get in contact with her again.
That is what I am attempting. Good advice.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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I see where I was being confusing by talking in opposites, comparing an ordinary relationship with an extraordinary relationship.
Most articles say the Twin Flame thing rarely works out. However, the more I read, the more it seems people are just making it all up. Maybe Twin Flames are just a collection of post hoc New Age labels for a temporary mental illness like mine or a very deep emotional connection like yours.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

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Good 'ol OC, cynical to the end! I'm really glad to hear your opinion it man, thank you. I can totally buy the fact that it *could* be some kind of temporary mental illness - it reminds me of an episode of Red Dwarf (Holoship) where they suggested that love was just that and that, and in the future, human kind had recognised it as such and moved past it. They also imposed twice daily sex for health and considered it 'the height of bad manners to refuse an offer of sex'. Sounds like a nice idea of the future.
I also get the New Age label thing - in my brief forays into that world I've generally found myself thinking what a load of crap it all seemed like to me. But then the concept in and of itself is pretty old right? I mean 'True Love' sounds to me just like what the New Agers are calling 'Twin Flame'.
I dunno man, I remember all of the synchronicity, telepathy and feeling of 'rightness' that seemed to occur before and during the early years with my wife (along with all the other more easily explained chemical bliss). I'm cynical, but I can't deny what I know I have experienced. Unless of course, I was actually mentally ill at the time!!
Either way, as said by trunksan, I know that I'm a much better version of myself for having had the experience, whether it lasts or not, and whether I find it again or not.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Jaegar
Formless One



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Thinking more about the phenomena you experienced OC I was reminded of a incident in my early childhood. I became completely infatuated with a girl at the school who was a complete stranger to me forsaking my friends even offering my lunch and accompanied by a overwhelming desire just to be around her. Completely out of character for me at six or seven years of age where you barely even acknowledge girls existence.
Poor girl I think was confused as my brothers who wondered what was wrong with me. Anyway this complete and overwhelming infatuation I think only lasted a day or couple and obviously didn't involve any sexual influences.
Reinforces my belief these experiences are neurotic escapades with biological underpinnings. A glitch in the machinery
Edited by Jaegar (08/20/15 12:01 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Quote:
Either way, as said by trunksan, I know that I'm a much better version of myself for having had the experience, whether it lasts or not, and whether I find it again or not.
As of today, if I could go back in time and erase the whole thing including our meeting, I would do it. Don't think I buy the "It's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all," cliché.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Soul Shock [Re: Jaegar] 1
#22116845 - 08/20/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Reinforces my belief these experiences are neurotic escapades with biological underpinnings. A glitch in the machinery
That may be the simplest answer. Was not a standard infatuation though. Here is something none of you are likely to believe, yet I have no reason to lie about it.
In the entire 6 weeks since I met her, I have never once had a sexual fantasy about her, even though her body was a solid 9. Some of you guys may make age jokes here, but I fantasize about women I meet all the time, and yes, my equipment works just fine.
So, definitely not lust.
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sprinkles
otd president


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if she isnt attracted to you or doesn't like you, the best thing for you to do is get over it. period. end of story.
the sooner you do the better off you are going to be. it is out of your control so just accept it and let it go.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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My rational mind agrees. My heart rails at letting go of the best dream I ever had, delusional or not.
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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u know what they say, if u love something let it go, and if it comes back kick their ass to the curve
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sprinkles
otd president


Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 21,527
Loc: washington state
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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feelings lie. your heart is a fucking liar just like mine
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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For one month I was alive. Now I am going back to sleep, to sleep, to sleep...
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: As of today, if I could go back in time and erase the whole thing including our meeting, I would do it. Don't think I buy the "It's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all," cliché.
Eh, too soon to tell.. you're still in withdrawal, maybe this experience will benefit you in some way you can't see yet.
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soldatheero
lastirishman


Registered: 03/09/07
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Just some ideas here..
Your experience with this woman made me digup this quote from Meher Baba. It seems to fit what is occurring with you here.
"The implications in assuming death to be the termination of individual existence run counter to the ineradicable expectations based upon rationalised intuition. A conflict usually arises between the claims of intuition and the conclusion of impure intellect, which assume death to be the termination of individual existence. Such conflict is often a beginning of pure thinking, which immediately seriously challenges the usually accepted belief that death is the real termination of individual existence. Death as an extinction of life can never be wholly acceptable to the spiritual aspirations of man. Therefore belief in the immortality of the individualized soul is often accepted by the human mind without much resistance, even in the absence of direct supersensible knowledge about the existence of life after death."
If reincarnation is indeed real than it stands to reason that we all know it is real but only subconsciously, we know it through our forgotten experience of it, through our intuition. However in our mind and in our conscious memories we have no knowledge of this, so a person could intellectually conclude that rebirth is impossible and think this in their minds but in the heart there is a sense or intuition of it.
You sense a connection with this woman, and yet you have no idea why. It doesn't even necessarily have to be sexual like you say because the attraction isn't about sex. You could know have known this person in a past life, she could have been anyone really, someone closely related to you. I had a very similar feeling when I first met my best friend when I was about 10 years old, I knew subconsciously he was going to be a great friend of mine, and we were and we are to this day, we are very similar souls or personalities. There was some sort of subconscious knowing there.
Also another interesting idea is what Meher says about sexual desire. That male and female incarnations serve different purposes and different lessons are learned according to the sex. Men excel and matters of the head and intellect whereas woman are capable of powerful feelings of love. We are trying to make up for a lost aspect of our psyche and it is a sort of effort to become whole again. You have been very overly intellectual and overlooking feelings and emotions so perhaps something is going on there as well.. and she is serving as a sort of mirror to this part of your psyche of which you have buried.. but then I would ask why this woman specifically?
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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I thought this experience might enlighten me. I had grand dreams of transformation.
I am packing on the pounds again, watching more TV and getting drunk. Now, I can make it through the day without tears - yay!
But I am totally dishonoring the amazing connection and lessons (possibly) learned. Fuck! Stuff is too complicated for this poor brain to comprehend.
Extreme pain and learning - or being stuck in Nowheresville and not hurting?

That is the question!
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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (08/22/15 03:59 AM)
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Midnight_Toker
Gone Fishin'


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 11,589
Loc: Canada
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Nowheresville won't stay pain-free forever.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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I can dig that, hepcat.
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Midnight_Toker
Gone Fishin'


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 11,589
Loc: Canada
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I have a question now.
Given how you feel now, if you could choose to go back and never meet her, to never have the incredible experience you did, would you? Or do you think the pleasure experienced then is worth the pain felt now?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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I would go back and have it NOT happen. A few days of max happiness * 100; 6 weeks of max pain * 100.
My serotonin levels are now back to normal, so I have no more daily freak-outs - and I can no longer see her face in my memory no matter how hard I try. I think that is my psyche protecting me.
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Jaegar
Formless One



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What is the difference if it was a drug induced experience with lingering effects.
Excepting personal dramas.
If oc had such a provocative attraction and affect from a dream girl would it get this attention?
Edited by Jaegar (08/22/15 10:39 AM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Soul Shock [Re: Jaegar]
#22126322 - 08/22/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Not sure exactly what you are asking.
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Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 2,217
Last seen: 6 months, 2 days
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Oc nothing personal thought instigating some derivative might be also interesting. But I'm drunk. Excuse me lol.
Edited by Jaegar (08/22/15 10:49 AM)
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YourTimesGonnaCome
Stranger

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 50
Last seen: 9 months, 29 days
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Drowning in a Sea of Love.
Ever see that movie? Another stellar Pacino role where he plays himself. Kind of creepy woman role Ellen Burstyn she's a bit creepy anyway and that movie really brought out the creepiness.
Twin Flames? Here, have a Pudding Pop that'll cool your jets...
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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You sound like every teenager in america. All of that stuff is normal thinking and yes it can be explained biologically. She is the most suitable mate you have ever found. The other ones were tolerable or good but this one was ideal. Not just physical attraction but a connection on an intellectual and emotional level AKA the perfect woman to have kids with.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 2,217
Last seen: 6 months, 2 days
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Don't beat yourself up OC. Determinism means that whatever happened,you had no control over and could not have happened any other way.
You can excuse yourself. Maybe even have a good laugh at it all when detritus settles down.
Edited by Jaegar (08/24/15 12:00 AM)
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