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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: morrowasted]
#22113766 - 08/19/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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morrowasted said:
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blankk said:
I think neuroscience has already confirmed that psychedelics "quiet" the brain so that reality can be perceived more directly.
no.
This is what i was thinking of
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[...] Turn On, Tune In and Drop Out
The British scientists injected either a harmless saltwater concoction (a placebo) or two milligrams of psilocybin directly into the veins of 30 volunteers while they were lying inside a magnetic scanner. As expected, the subjects experienced within a minute or two the effects of the drug. During their short “trip,” their brains were scanned with one of two different functional MRI techniques. Both gave consistent but very surprising results.
Brain activity was widely reduced! That is, these mind-altering drugs decreased hemodynamic activity, including blood flow, in selected regions, such as the thalamus, the medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC), the ACC and the posterior cingulate cortex (PCC). Activity in these regions dropped by up to 20 percent, relative to before the injection. Even more striking, the deeper the reduction in activity in the ACC and mPFC, the stronger the subject felt the effects of the hallucinogen. Nowhere did activity show an increase. Furthermore, the communication between the PFC and cortical regions in the back of the brain was also disrupted. The surprise is not that reduction of hemodynamic activity in specific sectors of the brain is unheard of. Nor was the activity completely turned off—that would lead within minutes to permanent damage and brain death.
Hemodynamic activity as registered by fMRI scanners is tightly linked to neuronal activity. A standard reading of Nutt’s fMRI data seems to imply that expanding your mind by taking magic mushrooms turns many brain circuits down rather than up. Suddenly, Timothy Leary’s famous admonition to hippies to “turn on, tune in and drop out” acquires a whole new meaning.
The ACC and parts of the mPFC inhibit limbic and other structures. Thus, their downregulation, or reduction in response, would allow the content of the limbic systems that process emotion and perhaps sensory cortices to play a relatively more dominant role. It is not that enhanced hemodynamic, or even neuronal, activity by itself gives rise to perception and thought. After all, epileptic seizures are hypersynchronized discharges that engulf the entire cortex in massive rhythmic activity that renders the patient unconscious. It is the pattern of spiking across heterogeneous populations of neurons that carries the specific information, the messages, that are represented in consciousness.
At this point, this is all pure speculation because the detailed biophysical mechanisms and the effects of psilocybin on different neurons remain to be worked out.
Any such remarkable finding needs to be replicated by other groups before it becomes part of textbook knowledge. Moreover, the discrepancy with the earlier PET experiments needs to be explained. Two major differences are the mode of taking the drug (intravenously versus orally) and the time of measurement (immediately versus an hour later).
What is intriguing is that the regions that show the strongest reduction in activity are among the most heavily interconnected in the brain. They act like traffic circles or hubs that link disparate regions. Thus, the brain on psilocybin becomes more disconnected, more fragmented, which might explain some of the dissociative aspects of acid trips. Yet why this state should cause the mind-expanding effects that are the prime reason these drugs are treasured is utterly unclear. The study once again highlights how elusive our knowledge of the mind-brain hinge remains.
This article was published in print as "This is Your Brain on Drugs."
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/this-is-your-brain-on-drugs/
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LSDreamer
Materialist



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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: Hobozen] 3
#22113780 - 08/19/15 07:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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blankk said:
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Bitter Cactus said:
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zZZz said:
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Bitter Cactus said: Enlightenment = egotiscal douche who took 2.5 grams of mushrooms and suddenly becomes a know it all about everything.
looks like ure pretty enlightened urself aswell
Psychedelics are mental masturbation that give you all the bullshit thoughts you want and you see them as the truth. You learn a thousand times more about the world through life experiences and talking to people from different cultures and trying different things. Psychedelics give you the illusion of knowledge when in reality you know fuck all and wasted all your time tripping instead of living.
You can learn about the world and universe and shit by just reading a book. Seriously.
I think neuroscience has already confirmed that psychedelics "quiet" the brain so that reality can be perceived more directly. So the opposite of what you're saying would be true. But I do think that they can be a sort of trap for some people, in that they falsely interpret their experience and create a whole new "illusion of knowledge" based on that. That's not the psychedelic's fault, that's human folly. I'd guess that most experienced trippers went through that at some point in their history to some degree anyway.
We do not yet have a complete picture of LSD's pharmacology. It does appear that LSD'S effects are caused by reducing activity in some parts of the brain, while increasing it in others. What you experience is an alteration of how the brain processes information. Your experience of the world is entirely manufactured by the brain in an active process, and basically any piece of that experience can be distorted or broken, and it's amazing and fascinating. I don't want to go on a tangent, but a great examples are Cortard and Capgras delusions. These are relatively well known now, so this may not be new to most people. But, in Cortard's Delusion, the person believes that they Are dead, simply non existent, or sometimes Immortal. Capgras delusion is the delusional belief that one or more close people to you has been replaced by an identical imposter. These are both that to l be caused by the same, or very similar, part of the brain malfunctioning for whatever individual reason. That part of the brain is what allows you to not only recognize faces, but to readily associate those faces, with an individual's identy and your emotional reaction to them. So, someone with this issue sees someone else, or themselvesvesz has no problem identifying the face. They know that face is definitely Bob's. But that next part where emotions and associations and familiarity are associated with it cannot take place. Because this is so puzzling and alient to the afflicted person, they often come to the conclusion that the person they're speaking to (say, your dad) can not possibly be the people they've known for so long. That's more Capgras delusion I've described. However, Cortard's is more or less the same thing but with the patient's own face, leading them to conclude that they must, in some form and beet or another,
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LSDreamer
Materialist



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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: LSDreamer]
#22113785 - 08/19/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I said I didn't want to go on a tangent, then immediate did so the rest of that post. Still typing out my thoughts that:lol,:
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22113789 - 08/19/15 07:43 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Malcolm_Xtasy said:
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blankk said:
I think neuroscience has already confirmed that psychedelics "quiet" the brain so that reality can be perceived more directly. So the opposite of what you're saying would be true. But I do think that they can be a sort of trap for some people, in that they falsely interpret their experience and create a whole new "illusion of knowledge" based on that. That's not the psychedelic's fault, that's human folly. I'd guess that most experienced trippers went through that at some point in their history to some degree anyway.
You are 100% wrong.
eh, no he's not. mushrooms reduce activity at the 'Default Mode Network' consisting but i think not limited to the posterior cingulate cortex, and the medial prefrontal cortex.
also, didn't you kind of agree with the part where psychedelics can create the illusion of knowledge?
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: 404]
#22113799 - 08/19/15 07:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I just don't think a substance that's a serotonin agonist can be considered something that quiets the brain. That's really all i'm saying.
I wasn't really referring the illusion of knowledge part so i guess his post wasn't 100% wrong
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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Hobozen


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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22113828 - 08/19/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I admit I jumped the gun a bit there, but if you read the article I linked to above, it doesn't seem that far off base 
During their short “trip,” their brains were scanned with one of two different functional MRI techniques. Both gave consistent but very surprising results.
Brain activity was widely reduced! That is, these mind-altering drugs decreased hemodynamic activity, including blood flow, in selected regions, such as the thalamus, the medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC), the ACC and the posterior cingulate cortex (PCC). ... A standard reading of Nutt’s fMRI data seems to imply that expanding your mind by taking magic mushrooms turns many brain circuits down rather than up.
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,656
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: zZZz]
#22113830 - 08/19/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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zZZz said: i find it strange that people say psychedelics have nothing to offer, and it's all just colors and bullshit, but what those people dont realize is the psychedelics are powered by u and ur life experiences whether they were conscious or subconsciousness. if u didnt exist then there would be absolutely no psychedelic experience because there wouldnt be a you to experience it.
we are the psychedelics experience, these psychedelic drugs just bring out what is already within us.
i'm not surprised when they say that about acid because most people I meet IRL who try it have no clue that there's a distinct possibility that it's an RC and aren't aware that acid should be tasteless so if they get nbombed they're none the wiser. Though I've had a pretty gnarly trip on nbomb before despite being subpar to acid.
and if they end up with real acid a hit could be 50mics or some weak ass bullshit, and if they haven't experienced a solid trip before I imagine they'd be pretty underwhelmed and think it was way too hyped up.
I remember some guy telling me how lame it was and I told him he either got a shit hand dealt to him from whoever he got it from, or he was possibly taking medication that can inhibit the effects. But I guess some people are brick walls when it comes to sensitivity and maybe he just needed more than average for a bon voyage.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22113843 - 08/19/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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was just reading this: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/what-happens-to-brains-during-spiritual-experiences/361882/
it's interesting that during 'spiritual experiences' frontal lobe activity also decreases just as it does when mushrooms have been ingested.
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Malcolm_Xtasy said: I just don't think a substance that's a serotonin agonist can be considered something that quiets the brain. That's really all i'm saying.
I wasn't really referring the illusion of knowledge part so i guess his post wasn't 100% wrong
serotonin's molecular structure brings about a 'normal' functioning of the brain modulating other neurotransmitter levels and directly dealing with many bodily functions in the gut, vasodilation and constriction, and mood regulation. if you're introducing a substance that competes with serotonin at specific networks, i would think it would inhibit some functioning, if only just interfering with normal functioning whatever the result may be
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: 404] 1
#22113856 - 08/19/15 07:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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there's also this - http://www.iflscience.com/brain/magic-mushroom-chemical-hyper-connects-brain
like i said before, the brain is connecting in ways and places it didn't normally under the influence of psychedelics, so who's to say that you can't piece together new thoughts in your mind under the influence of these substances?
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Gottaloveacid
Weedbass



Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 3,421
Loc: Colorado, USA
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: pirate-blues]
#22113862 - 08/19/15 07:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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SirShroomsAlott said: You're not enlightened, sorry to break it to you.
Learn acceptance, that's leaning more towards the side of enlightenment.
Acceptance is a part of enlightenment for sure. I am really happy and content with most shit but I have not fully accepted all the idiot bullshit out there.
I don't mind people usually, even if they are trying to get on my nerves. What the kicker for me is is ignorance. It's okay to be wrong, Quote:
pirate-blues said:
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zZZz said: i find it strange that people say psychedelics have nothing to offer, and it's all just colors and bullshit, but what those people dont realize is the psychedelics are powered by u and ur life experiences whether they were conscious or subconsciousness. if u didnt exist then there would be absolutely no psychedelic experience because there wouldnt be a you to experience it.
we are the psychedelics experience, these psychedelic drugs just bring out what is already within us.
i'm not surprised when they say that about acid because most people I meet IRL who try it have no clue that there's a distinct possibility that it's an RC and aren't aware that acid should be tasteless so if they get nbombed they're none the wiser. Though I've had a pretty gnarly trip on nbomb before despite being subpar to acid.
and if they end up with real acid a hit could be 50mics or some weak ass bullshit, and if they haven't experienced a solid trip before I imagine they'd be pretty underwhelmed and think it was way too hyped up.
I remember some guy telling me how lame it was and I told him he either got a shit hand dealt to him from whoever he got it from, or he was possibly taking medication that can inhibit the effects. But I guess some people are brick walls when it comes to sensitivity and maybe he just needed more than average for a bon voyage.
Very true. People would be surprised how few people actually know how to spot real LSD and the rest usually get bullshitted by greedy dealers.
People like william pickard were literally saving the fucking world. It is very obvious that psychedelics, or at least the people who use them, are the types of people who the world needs most. Ignorance is the source of the worlds problems but psychedelics let you see past it all and it shows you the REAL world with you in the front row seat.
Free thinkers are the ones who I place faith in. Politicians, radicals, uneducated people, and all other types of ignorants are slamming the brake on so many things in the world.
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 The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends! wubba lubba dub dubstep
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
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Loc:
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: pirate-blues]
#22113871 - 08/19/15 08:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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pirate-blues said:
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zZZz said: i find it strange that people say psychedelics have nothing to offer, and it's all just colors and bullshit, but what those people dont realize is the psychedelics are powered by u and ur life experiences whether they were conscious or subconsciousness. if u didnt exist then there would be absolutely no psychedelic experience because there wouldnt be a you to experience it.
we are the psychedelics experience, these psychedelic drugs just bring out what is already within us.
i'm not surprised when they say that about acid because most people I meet IRL who try it have no clue that there's a distinct possibility that it's an RC and aren't aware that acid should be tasteless so if they get nbombed they're none the wiser. Though I've had a pretty gnarly trip on nbomb before despite being subpar to acid.
and if they end up with real acid a hit could be 50mics or some weak ass bullshit, and if they haven't experienced a solid trip before I imagine they'd be pretty underwhelmed and think it was way too hyped up.
I remember some guy telling me how lame it was and I told him he either got a shit hand dealt to him from whoever he got it from, or he was possibly taking medication that can inhibit the effects. But I guess some people are brick walls when it comes to sensitivity and maybe he just needed more than average for a bon voyage.
Any time people say this I give them 2 hits of some really good WoW and then they usually get the message
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: pirate-blues]
#22113887 - 08/19/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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FWIW, i have personally had 50 ug of LSD (had it tested and weighed by a chemist friend of mine) and it was well enough to produce pronounced visuals and a psychedelic experience. wasn't the strongest experience i've ever had, but it was strong enough for a 'solid' trip.
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drege
This space for lease

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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22113889 - 08/19/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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go to slab city like me. I'll just sit in the shade of my trash shanty and contemplate the absurdity of life, the universe and everything and eat more psychedelics by night.
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https://discord.gg/hqdy5ymn
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Gottaloveacid
Weedbass



Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 3,421
Loc: Colorado, USA
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: 404]
#22113903 - 08/19/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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404 said: FWIW, i have personally had 50 ug of LSD (had it tested and weighed by a chemist friend of mine) and it was well enough to produce pronounced visuals and a psychedelic experience. wasn't the strongest experience i've ever had, but it was strong enough for a 'solid' trip.
Haven't taken 50ug but I did 70ug once. Had some visuals for sure and I would call it a trip but it was much more uncomfortable than say a 100ug trip. 70ug had me on the edge for the entire 12 hours, gave me the same stimulation and body sensation as a normal trip but the headspace was in and out of what I'd call psychedelic and the visuals were very minor.
I much prefer lower shroom doses
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 The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends! wubba lubba dub dubstep
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caman
The Sauntering Stranger



Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 414
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: pirate-blues]
#22113911 - 08/19/15 08:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I feel ya OP, I personally find that society is a great concept but at this time in age could be greatly improved upon. I don't mean to rock the boat but I feel the majority of folks posting in here will not agree with what I say (which is fine, we are ALL entitled to our own opinions!) but I just want to the show OP he is not alone. I am all for psychedelics & even advocate their usage as long as its done in a correct setting with a proper mindset & a sitter (for the first few experiences atleast). There certainly is more to life then psychedelics but they definitely have a lot to teach/show us.
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In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the mind, there are no limits.- John C. Lilly
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


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Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: caman] 1
#22113922 - 08/19/15 08:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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caman said: I feel ya OP, I personally find that society is a great concept but at this time in age could be greatly improved upon. I don't mean to rock the boat but I feel the majority of folks posting in here will not agree with what I say (which is fine, we are ALL entitled to our own opinions!) but I just want to the show OP he is not alone. I am all for psychedelics & even advocate their usage as long as its done in a correct setting with a proper mindset & a sitter (for the first few experiences atleast). There certainly is more to life then psychedelics but they definitely have a lot to teach/show us.
Sitting around tripping and complaining won't change anything tho.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Gottaloveacid
Weedbass



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Posts: 3,421
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: caman] 2
#22113942 - 08/19/15 08:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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caman said: I feel ya OP, I personally find that society is a great concept but at this time in age could be greatly improved upon. I don't mean to rock the boat but I feel the majority of folks posting in here will not agree with what I say (which is fine, we are ALL entitled to our own opinions!) but I just want to the show OP he is not alone. I am all for psychedelics & even advocate their usage as long as its done in a correct setting with a proper mindset & a sitter (for the first few experiences atleast). There certainly is more to life then psychedelics but they definitely have a lot to teach/show us.
They have a LOT to teach those willing to learn. It isn't some mysticism bullshit, they shred apart barriers and help you find doors you didn't know existed.
I agree society as a whole is fucked and it makes me disgusted to be a part of something as fucked up as it is.
I only hang around people who have open minds. Having a viewpoint doesn't mean you don't have open thinking, and there is always room for debate on subjects. It's when blatant things like drug prohibition, racism, bigotry, and money come in to play. It's okay to have an opinion and even make laws but forcing entire countries to follow incorrect, ignorant laws/ideas and making those who disagree to suffer is just a joke.
Not saying anarchy is a good thing, because it isn't. The world isn't ready for laws to be erased. There are people out there who are though. That is why I cannot stand ignorant, stupid people because they are the only thing preventing the rest of us from living in a land without oppression.
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 The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends! wubba lubba dub dubstep
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: Gottaloveacid]
#22113944 - 08/19/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Whatever, I think society does a pretty good job overall. We have nice buildings, we have roads, most people get along. 
Most of us have a roof over our heads, a warm meal every morning.
I think most people here are just negative nancies. At least we are not ethiopia.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
Edited by Bitter Cactus (08/19/15 08:20 PM)
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caman
The Sauntering Stranger



Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 414
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: Gottaloveacid]
#22113977 - 08/19/15 08:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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They have a LOT to teach those willing to learn. It isn't some mysticism bullshit, they shred apart barriers and help you find doors you didn't know existed.
I agree society as a whole is fucked and it makes me disgusted to be a part of something as fucked up as it is.
I only hang around people who have open minds. Having a viewpoint doesn't mean you don't have open thinking, and there is always room for debate on subjects. It's when blatant things like drug prohibition, racism, bigotry, and money come in to play. It's okay to have an opinion and even make laws but forcing entire countries to follow incorrect, ignorant laws/ideas and making those who disagree to suffer is just a joke.
Not saying anarchy is a good thing, because it isn't. The world isn't ready for laws to be erased. There are people out there who are though. That is why I cannot stand ignorant, stupid people because they are the only thing preventing the rest of us from living in a land without oppression.
Right on !
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In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the mind, there are no limits.- John C. Lilly
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Gottaloveacid
Weedbass



Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 3,421
Loc: Colorado, USA
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Re: I am enlightened but can't stand living in society. [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22113985 - 08/19/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Bitter Cactus said: Whatever, I think society does a pretty good job overall. We have nice buildings, we have roads, most people get along. 
Most of us have a roof over our heads, a warm meal every morning.
I think most people here are just negative nancies. At least we are not ethiopia.
You can thank money for that. It's just another part of society that we COULD truthfully do without.
Even people who hate each other more than anything are willing to work together as long as money is involved. It's not like most people have a choice either, money has become such a requirement in the modern world.
It isn't solving the root problems, which are mainly ignorance and hatred. It is simply an incentive that we are forced to meet.
There is a difference between a productive society and a successful one. The world as it is now (especially the western world) is a PRODUCTIVE one, but calling it successful is far fetched IMHO.
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 The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends! wubba lubba dub dubstep
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