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Amanita86
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What's the signifigance of the number 133?
#22109384 - 08/19/15 01:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can't ever get a straight answer.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Adolin




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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Amanita86] 6
#22109391 - 08/19/15 01:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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133 is the natural number following 132 and preceding 134.
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Amanita86
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Adolin]
#22109395 - 08/19/15 01:09 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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--------------------
Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Adolin




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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Amanita86] 2
#22109397 - 08/19/15 01:12 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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133 is a semiprime, a product of two prime numbers, namely 7 and 19
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Shroomslip
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Amanita86]
#22109399 - 08/19/15 01:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why do I feel like I've seen this question before. I could swear I've seen this exact question asked somewhere. Was this just some random off the wall question, or is there a reason you're asking?
Also when I read the thread title I instantly thought "Oh Jesus, not again" (HatingMeIsEasier).
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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zZZz
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Amanita86] 1
#22109403 - 08/19/15 01:15 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ask HatingMelsEasier, I'm sure he'll know.
I think he's banned tho..
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Adolin




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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109404 - 08/19/15 01:15 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: Why do I feel like I've seen this question before.
ive seen a bunch of thread about the number 108, i dont see the significance of 133 though, even after some googling. its used in identification alot, but the number itself doesnt seem very interesting
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Asante
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109406 - 08/19/15 01:16 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Amanita86
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109408 - 08/19/15 01:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's the first person I thought of when typing this out.
I've seen the number around a few times and it's always in the context of representing something. But I don't know what. So far I've found out that in some place, that I can't remember, they use 133 as 911, but it's another meaning that Im looking for.
--------------------
Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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zZZz
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Amanita86]
#22109422 - 08/19/15 01:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think Asante has it right..
U add up all the numbers until u get single number or sum shit
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Shroomslip
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Amanita86]
#22109431 - 08/19/15 01:26 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gresh said:
Quote:
Shroomslip said: Why do I feel like I've seen this question before.
ive seen a bunch of thread about the number 108, i dont see the significance of 133 though, even after some googling. its used in identification alot, but the number itself doesnt seem very interesting
I'm pretty much 100% positive I've seen this question asked before (multiple times) and not here (or any one place). I did some Googling as well, and some shit about Angels came up. I'm not too sure about this part, but when I saw it asked before, I got a very "Number 23" vibe from whatever answers was finally given. Somehow it was tied into everything. I'm sitting here trying to rack my brain and remember where I saw it came up so I could find that info. (not that I buy into it).
Quote:
Amanita86 said: That's the first person I thought of when typing this out.
I've seen the number around a few times and it's always in the context of representing something. But I don't know what. So far I've found out that in some place, that I can't remember, they use 133 as 911, but it's another meaning that Im looking for.
Yeah I remember that it was somehow very significant. Just can't remember what significance it was.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109655 - 08/19/15 04:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It is a series of three symbols which were created by humans. There is no special significance to any group of any symbols of any kind beyond that which is given to them by humans because they are all social constructs and nothing more.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Shroomslip
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109671 - 08/19/15 04:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Going beyond the captain obvious aspect..
Values are not a human construct. Math exists in nature. The only thing that is a human construct is the symbols and words we use to identify said values. Make a pile of balls with the first pile being 1 ball, the second being 2 and the third being 3, and the value is there. It doesn't matter what word word or symbol we use to represent the value, the value is unchanged regardless of what we label it.
Without knowing whatever significance "133" is supposed to hold, you cannot say that just because we use a certain symbol, word or language to assign a term to the value, that it doesn't exist. That argument can only be made after we determine what significance it is supposed to hold (if it even can). A certain word or phrase in the English language could equal 133 given the right formula, and then you have a case based on your post. But until you can tie the value "133" to a certain language or non-universal truth, you simply can't say it holds no significance.
For the record I don't even believe in the significance of numbers in almost all (I can't say any because because there might be a couple I'm not thinking of) situations. This isn't about me defending the idea, it's about me proving your statements are flawed.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
Edited by Shroomslip (08/19/15 04:25 AM)
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sun_spots
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109672 - 08/19/15 04:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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When something gets stuck in your head, you start noticing it everywhere. Our natural human response to these types of patterns is to analyze them in search of a common thread or larger significance that validates their existence. Sometimes this leads to deeper insights, but a lot of times it just drives you insane.
-------------------- ShiVersblood said: shut ur fucking mouth. before a penis is are be enters LordSenate said: Cheese poop... Who gives a fuck gotta eat lots of cheese.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109673 - 08/19/15 04:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
healing said: It is a series of three symbols which were created by humans. There is no special significance to any group of any symbols of any kind beyond that which is given to them by humans because they are all social constructs and nothing more.
Except numbers which existed before the social constructs, we did not invent math, we discovered it.
3.141592653...(PI)
1.61803398875 (the golden ratio) (phi)
These numbers to have intrinsic universal significance
(The number 9 is spiritually significant in Buddhism, for many reasons, but it's properties being one
Write numbers 1-8, one line running up one line running down as pictured below
1 8 2 7 3 6 4 5 5 4 6 3 7 2 8 1
They become the multiples of 9
18 27 36 45 --- 54 63 72 81
And they all equal 9 when added:
1+8 = 9 2+7 = 9 3+6 = 9 4+5 = 9 5+4 = 9 6+3 = 9 7+2 = 9 8+1 = 9
It's these properties that led man to attribute significance to number 9.)
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109678 - 08/19/15 04:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: Going beyond the captain obvious aspect..
Values are not a human construct. Math exists in nature. The only thing that is a human construct is the symbols and words we use to identify said values. Make a pile of balls with the first pile being 1 ball, the second being 2 and the third being 3, and the value is there. It doesn't matter what word word or symbol we use to represent the value, the value is unchanged regardless of what we label it.
Without knowing whatever significance "133" is supposed to hold, you cannot say that just because we use a certain symbol, word or language to assign a term to the value, that it doesn't exist. That argument can only be made after we determine what significance it is supposed to hold (if it even can). A certain word or phrase in the English language could equal 133 given the right formula, and then you have a case based on your post. But until you can the value "133" to a certain language or non-universal truth, you simply can't say it holds no significance.
For the record I don't even believe in the significance of numbers in almost all (I can't say any because because there might be a couple I'm not thinking of) situations. This isn't about me defending the idea, it's about me proving your statements are flawed.
Hmm...I did not mean to post damn near the same thing you just said...you know when you post and it shows you when people posted while you were writing? I spent a good deal of time writing this out and did not read what had been posted by others until after I posted my response...Sorry for being repetitive unintentionally.
-E. Borodin
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109684 - 08/19/15 04:31 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: Going beyond the captain obvious aspect..
Values are not a human construct. Math exists in nature. The only thing that is a human construct is the symbols and words we use to identify said values. Make a pile of balls with the first pile being 1 ball, the second being 2 and the third being 3, and the value is there. It doesn't matter what word word or symbol we use to represent the value, the value is unchanged regardless of what we label it.
Without knowing whatever significance "133" is supposed to hold, you cannot say that just because we use a certain symbol, word or language to assign a term to the value, that it doesn't exist. That argument can only be made after we determine what significance it is supposed to hold (if it even can). A certain word or phrase in the English language could equal 133 given the right formula, and then you have a case based on your post. But until you can the value "133" to a certain language or non-universal truth, you simply can't say it holds no significance.
For the record I don't even believe in the significance of numbers in almost all (I can't say any because because there might be a couple I'm not thinking of) situations. This isn't about me defending the idea, it's about me proving your statements are flawed.
Mathematics is a branch of logic. Logic is a branch of philosophy. So is skepticism. I can refuse to acknowledge mathematics entirely. Nothing can be proven to a person who is entirely skeptical, leaving you with no recourse whatsoever when I say that I don't believe in values.
Values are a philosophical concept and a social construct.
As a rule of thumb, if you can describe it is a social construct.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109687 - 08/19/15 04:33 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
healing said:
Quote:
Shroomslip said: Going beyond the captain obvious aspect..
Values are not a human construct. Math exists in nature. The only thing that is a human construct is the symbols and words we use to identify said values. Make a pile of balls with the first pile being 1 ball, the second being 2 and the third being 3, and the value is there. It doesn't matter what word word or symbol we use to represent the value, the value is unchanged regardless of what we label it.
Without knowing whatever significance "133" is supposed to hold, you cannot say that just because we use a certain symbol, word or language to assign a term to the value, that it doesn't exist. That argument can only be made after we determine what significance it is supposed to hold (if it even can). A certain word or phrase in the English language could equal 133 given the right formula, and then you have a case based on your post. But until you can the value "133" to a certain language or non-universal truth, you simply can't say it holds no significance.
For the record I don't even believe in the significance of numbers in almost all (I can't say any because because there might be a couple I'm not thinking of) situations. This isn't about me defending the idea, it's about me proving your statements are flawed.
Mathematics is a branch of logic. Logic is a branch of philosophy. So is skepticism. I can refuse to acknowledge mathematics entirely. Nothing can be proven to a person who is entirely skeptical, leaving you with no recourse whatsoever when I say that I don't believe in values.
Values are a philosophical concept and a social construct.
As a rule of thumb, if you can describe it is a social construct.
One object with another object equals two objects no matter how you feel about it.
Math was discovered, not invented.
-E. Borodin
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healing
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skepticism "Philosophical skepticism is a systematic approach that questions the notion that absolutely certain knowledge is possible."
How have you never heard of skepticism?
Prove it to me.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (08/19/15 04:36 AM)
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109693 - 08/19/15 04:37 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
healing said: How have you never heard of skepticism?
Prove it to me.
Take one object, now put another object next to it, you have two objects, be as skeptical as you want, you can't deny that...
-E. Borodin
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DirdyD


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I've heard that if you add 9 to 124, you get 133. Now, this could just be a rumor but the implications of such a discovery, if verified, could be immense.
Oddly enough, one of the connections between the ancient Syrians, Jesus and George W. Bush (ala 9/11) is they all speculated that adding 1 to 132 could render 133....
This is "above my pay grade", as they say, and I work for the feds so I'll leave it for you to decide.
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Shroomslip
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Great minds.
I used to binge watch documentaries, there was a pretty good one BBC put out on the subject called The Story of Maths. Not the only one I've watched on the subject, but it did reveal some pretty amazing stuff (been a long time so I'd be hard pressed to cite examples, the only one I can remember is based on music and how people find music to be more beautiful the more mathematically harmonious it is).
Have always found math truly fascinating though. More geared towards it's emergence and how it came to be. As a kid I was always wondering how it was invented. Found out later, it never was invented, it's just a product of the Universe. Math is as close to a universal truth we will ever see.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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healing
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I can, look. I deny that. I deny that objects exist in the first place. There is no such thing as an object for there to be. Just think of the implications of skepticism for a bit, dude. It's cute. Nothing can be proven with absolute certainty. All statements are suspect. There's no infallible evidence to prove one's own existence. You can't even be sure that you exist. That's the lesson of the skeptics.
Honestly, this is high school stuff.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109705 - 08/19/15 04:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's what people say "close to a universal truth..", but ask a longtime practitioner of buddhism and you'l get a different answer.
There is nothing but universal truth and it really couldn't be another way. We are in fact, in and am the universe. Just kinda how it works.
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Shroomslip
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109711 - 08/19/15 04:50 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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He's still right, you can argue semantics all you want. You don't even need a language to understand the concept. You have one object, I hand you another, you now have double the objects. It matters none what you label "one", "double" or even if you label them at all.
Want to say that they don't exist? Then neither do you. Yet we're all in this "non-existence" and in this "non-existence" if you have one object and I hand you another, you have 2. Prove it? If you drop all the objects in your hands, how many fall? Everything is on a relative and comparative basis, whether we exist or not.
We can run around in circles all night, it'd be easier if you just admitted you stated a fallacy as fact though. I'm certainly not going to go back and fourth with you all night.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: DirdyD]
#22109718 - 08/19/15 04:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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No, you don't get it.
How do I know that what I see with my eyes is real? How could I prove to myself that what I see is reality? [insert your answer] How do I know that [insert your answer] is real? And so on.
It's a pretty simple thought experiment. You're supposed to learn this stuff along with other basic epistemology shit as part of your compulsory education.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109719 - 08/19/15 04:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: He's still right, you can argue semantics all you want. You don't even need a language to understand the concept. You have one object, I hand you another, you now have double the objects. It matters none what you label "one", "double" or even if you label them at all.
Want to say that they don't exist? Then neither do you. Yet we're all in this "non-existence" and in this "non-existence" if you have one object and I hand you another, you have 2. Prove it? If you drop all the objects in your hands, how many fall? Everything is on a relative and comparative basis, whether we exist or not.
We can run around in circles all night, it'd be easier if you just admitted you stated a fallacy as fact though. I'm certainly not going to go back and fourth with you all night.
How do you know that the object that you think you are holding exists?
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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sun_spots
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109720 - 08/19/15 04:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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How do you know that you exist?
-------------------- ShiVersblood said: shut ur fucking mouth. before a penis is are be enters LordSenate said: Cheese poop... Who gives a fuck gotta eat lots of cheese.
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: sun_spots]
#22109724 - 08/19/15 04:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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sun_spots
Good boob day


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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing] 1
#22109728 - 08/19/15 05:00 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, me neither.
-------------------- ShiVersblood said: shut ur fucking mouth. before a penis is are be enters LordSenate said: Cheese poop... Who gives a fuck gotta eat lots of cheese.
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DirdyD


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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109731 - 08/19/15 05:03 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I wasn't debating anything you said, just making a passing observation. Put your dick back in your pants, mate. Everything is cool.
I went through 4 years of college and 2-3 years traditional monastic training. Grasping what you're saying is child's play.
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: DirdyD]
#22109734 - 08/19/15 05:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DirdyD said: I wasn't debating anything you said, just making a passing observation. Put your dick back in your pants, mate. Everything is cool.
I went through 4 years of college and 2-3 years traditional monastic training. Grasping what you're saying is child's play.
I know! That part wasn't directed at you. Sorry. It's super annoying that they don't know this already.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Shroomslip
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109738 - 08/19/15 05:07 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I do get it. I get that you're trying to come across as highly enlightened and as if you have some giant knowledge bomb to drop on everyone, but you don't. Your arguments hold no weight. Your philosophical questioning is easily debunked. As I said, I'm not going to go round and round with you all night. This shit will literally go on forever.
The objects are as real as you. What is "real" is just arguing semantics.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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DirdyD


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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109742 - 08/19/15 05:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's 7:10a here.
But yeah, this sort of argument is one hell of a rabbit hole. Best to step away and forget about it asap.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109745 - 08/19/15 05:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
healing said: I can, look. I deny that. I deny that objects exist in the first place. There is no such thing as an object for there to be. Just think of the implications of skepticism for a bit, dude. It's cute. Nothing can be proven with absolute certainty. All statements are suspect. There's no infallible evidence to prove one's own existence. You can't even be sure that you exist. That's the lesson of the skeptics.
Honestly, this is high school stuff.
Taking skepticism to such absurd extremes is high school stuff, regardless if you feel the objects exist or not, one object next to another is two objects, who cares if they "exist" in the philosophical sense, that has nothing to do with their quantity.
-E. Borodin
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109748 - 08/19/15 05:14 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not at all. I don't even believe in enlightenment. You're just not following through with the thought experiment, which shouldn't be new to you.
You should already know that nothing can be proven with any certainty and that philosophy had to accept this and move on. I don't know why you're getting bogged down here.
What we were really talking about was numbers as social constructs. Because the objects that you use are at their basis conceptual because you either see them with your mind or perceive them through your thoughts or communicate them with your words.
You cannot conceive of it without conceptualizing it and so it is a part of the human experience without humans there would be no such thoughts to order whatever you think the universe is when we're not around and we can't know that. We can't even prove our own existence to ourselves, or do you need a big dose of benadryl?
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:
healing said: I can, look. I deny that. I deny that objects exist in the first place. There is no such thing as an object for there to be. Just think of the implications of skepticism for a bit, dude. It's cute. Nothing can be proven with absolute certainty. All statements are suspect. There's no infallible evidence to prove one's own existence. You can't even be sure that you exist. That's the lesson of the skeptics.
Honestly, this is high school stuff.
Taking skepticism to such absurd extremes is high school stuff, regardless if you feel the objects exist or not, one object next to another is two objects, who cares if they "exist" in the philosophical sense, that has nothing to do with their quantity.
-E. Borodin
I know that. That's entirely beside the point.
We're talking about the social construct of value.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109753 - 08/19/15 05:16 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
healing said: No, you don't get it.
How do I know that what I see with my eyes is real? How could I prove to myself that what I see is reality? [insert your answer] How do I know that [insert your answer] is real? And so on.
It's a pretty simple thought experiment. You're supposed to learn this stuff along with other basic epistemology shit as part of your compulsory education.
Quote:
healing said:
Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:
healing said: I can, look. I deny that. I deny that objects exist in the first place. There is no such thing as an object for there to be. Just think of the implications of skepticism for a bit, dude. It's cute. Nothing can be proven with absolute certainty. All statements are suspect. There's no infallible evidence to prove one's own existence. You can't even be sure that you exist. That's the lesson of the skeptics.
Honestly, this is high school stuff.
Taking skepticism to such absurd extremes is high school stuff, regardless if you feel the objects exist or not, one object next to another is two objects, who cares if they "exist" in the philosophical sense, that has nothing to do with their quantity.
-E. Borodin
I know that. That's entirely beside the point.
We're talking about the social construct of value.
No, we are talking about math, and how skeptical argument can't apply to it in any reasonable sense.
-E. Borodin
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing] 1
#22109756 - 08/19/15 05:16 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't think they're talking about what you're talking about.
-------------------- ShiVersblood said: shut ur fucking mouth. before a penis is are be enters LordSenate said: Cheese poop... Who gives a fuck gotta eat lots of cheese.
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reasonaQuote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:
healing said: No, you don't get it.
How do I know that what I see with my eyes is real? How could I prove to myself that what I see is reality? [insert your answer] How do I know that [insert your answer] is real? And so on.
It's a pretty simple thought experiment. You're supposed to learn this stuff along with other basic epistemology shit as part of your compulsory education.
Quote:
healing said:
Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:
healing said: I can, look. I deny that. I deny that objects exist in the first place. There is no such thing as an object for there to be. Just think of the implications of skepticism for a bit, dude. It's cute. Nothing can be proven with absolute certainty. All statements are suspect. There's no infallible evidence to prove one's own existence. You can't even be sure that you exist. That's the lesson of the skeptics.
Honestly, this is high school stuff.
Taking skepticism to such absurd extremes is high school stuff, regardless if you feel the objects exist or not, one object next to another is two objects, who cares if they "exist" in the philosophical sense, that has nothing to do with their quantity.
-E. Borodin
I know that. That's entirely beside the point.
We're talking about the social construct of value.
No, we are talking about math, and how skeptical argument can't apply to it in any reasonable sense.
-E. Borodin
Reasonable, yes. Reasonable is an opinion, one with which i agree.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Your arguments can apply, but you have to take them to such an absurd extreme that it would be unreasonable...
-E. Borodin
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healing
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Yes. Again, as long as you recognize that reasonable is your opinion.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (08/19/15 05:20 AM)
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109767 - 08/19/15 05:20 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok, can't argue with you there.
-E. Borodin
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So I agree with your opinion that values very likely have some concrete existence beyond that which humans perceive.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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I guess it was a perspective issue,
...But I still see math as free from everything objective, free from the values we impose on it, free from subjectivity of any mind, it is the one truth, and regardless of the mental tricks you must play to even attempt to deny it, it is universal and universally objective, it's the closest example of truth we have.
-E. Borodin
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I agree, but our feeble approximation is a social construct.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109784 - 08/19/15 05:29 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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...I guess anything outside of math and chemistry could be seen as a social construct.
-E. Borodin
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Shroomslip
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109787 - 08/19/15 05:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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What the hell does Benadryl have to do with anything?
I wasn't going to respond because frankly your arguments are really starting to bug me. You are phrasing sentences that in a grammatical and descriptor way make sense, but in logic just completely break down. I'm just not even going to bother trying to debate that shit. There's no point. Not because your argument is iron clad and impenetrable, but because it's just so far out there it has no business in a realistic debate.
Yes, we can't prove anything with absolute certainty, because we can't even prove that we're "real" however that doesn't apply on the level you're applying it to. In whatever plane of real or unreal existence we live in, everything we experience is as real as we are. Unless you're trying to argue that billions of people all exist in a different plane than you do, yet you're able to interact with all of us. If I pick up 2 oranges and hand them to 5 billion other people one by one, they are also going to be holding 2 oranges. They are not going to dispute they are holding 2 oranges. The only problem in this scenario is you. Who is somehow skeptical they are holding a value of 2 oranges.
Are we in the Matrix and you're Neo and somehow the laws of our world don't apply to you? I really doubt it.
Anyways I'm done with it. But what does Benadryl have to do with anything? Is that the red pill?
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
Edited by Shroomslip (08/19/15 05:31 AM)
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Math is one of our most basic social constructs. It's our limited minds' attempt at understanding a universe that reaches far beyond our conception. The system from which we attempt to reason some order is far too vast for some bunch of apes. Math and science are a product of a group of cultures, our best work, yes, but still a work in progress, you'll agree.
Any thought, any concept is a social construct, or do you not remember all of the people, and energy, and money that went into teaching it to you?
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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psi
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:
healing said: It is a series of three symbols which were created by humans. There is no special significance to any group of any symbols of any kind beyond that which is given to them by humans because they are all social constructs and nothing more.
Except numbers which existed before the social constructs, we did not invent math, we discovered it.
3.141592653...(PI)
1.61803398875 (the golden ratio) (phi)
These numbers to have intrinsic universal significance
(The number 9 is spiritually significant in Buddhism, for many reasons, but it's properties being one
Write numbers 1-8, one line running up one line running down as pictured below
1 8 2 7 3 6 4 5 5 4 6 3 7 2 8 1
They become the multiples of 9
18 27 36 45 --- 54 63 72 81
And they all equal 9 when added:
1+8 = 9 2+7 = 9 3+6 = 9 4+5 = 9 5+4 = 9 6+3 = 9 7+2 = 9 8+1 = 9
It's these properties that led man to attribute significance to number 9.)
-E. Borodin
This kind of stuff is all specific to base 10 though, so these are properties of the decimal system more than they are properties of the number 9. I'm pretty sure it works with whatever number is the highest digit in a given base.
In octal for example:
07 in base 8 is 7 in base 10 (7 * 1) 16 in base 8 is 14 in base 10 (7 * 2) 25 in base 8 is 21 in base 10 (7 * 3) 34 in base 8 is 28 in base 10 (7 * 4) 43 in base 8 is 35 in base 10 (7 * 5) 52 in base 8 is 42 in base 10 (7 * 6) 61 in base 8 is 49 in base 10 (7 * 7) 70 in base 8 is 56 in base 10 (7 * 8)
0 + 7 = 7 1 + 6 = 7 2 + 5 = 7 3 + 4 = 7 4 + 3 = 7 5 + 2 = 7 6 + 1 = 7 7 + 0 = 7
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: psi]
#22109797 - 08/19/15 05:34 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Take a huge dose of benadryl and try to count.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (08/19/15 05:35 AM)
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109804 - 08/19/15 05:36 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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And I'm to discover what exactly?
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109807 - 08/19/15 05:37 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Benadryl is a powerful deliriant. Have you ever been delirious? If you'll give it a try, you'll never take the obviousness of your existence for granted again.
One, green, flower, I'm dying oh my god I'm dying, five...
You'll come up with some numbers you won't even believe.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (08/19/15 05:38 AM)
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109825 - 08/19/15 05:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes I have. I just wanted to make sure what I was supposed to learn. I know what delirium is, I'm far more acquainted with it than I really would like to be. I never took a bunch of benadryl to get high, but I've done it a number of times for other reasons and I'm not talking "10 pills". I have also been delirious via other means more than once (the last being having a rotovirus and puking every 20-30 minutes for 4 days straight).
Believe me when I say you're not on some higher plane of existence than me because you got delirious. I have been there, plenty of times. Yet somehow I'm still sitting here opposing your views. Odd.
Though now your arguments make more sense.
And if you think I'm just saying that, look back through my posts, you can forum search my name and benadryl. You'll find I've talked about it more than once, usually to warn someone off of taking high doses as if the high was worth it (one quite recently as a matter of fact).
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
Edited by Shroomslip (08/19/15 05:53 AM)
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109828 - 08/19/15 05:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah. You do drugs, so your arguments don't have any value. Except you also took the same drug right? You're kind of dumb dude.
We already hashed this all out above, man. Stop dragging the conversation down. I'm trying to completely derail a thread here.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (08/19/15 06:07 AM)
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109829 - 08/19/15 05:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Seriously, you think in fucking movie references.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109849 - 08/19/15 06:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I argue based on logic. You argue based on some completely insane and surreal set of "facts" you've managed to concoct out of who knows where, although heavily based purely on semantics. Yet I'm the dumb one.
I think in movie references? No. Point one out in this whole thread besides the ONE post where it was relevant to what I was trying to describe. That's not thinking in movie references, that's referencing a movie when it's relevant to the point.
I'm sorry I'm not bowing down to your ridiculous bullshit. I'm sure you're used to minds crumbling before your awe inspiring knowledge, I am not impressed. You sound like every single other prophet spouting inane bullshit in the midst of a trip. However for reasons I can't determine, you seem to be stuck in that mindset. Most people just kinda leave that shit behind in the trip, because most people adhere to logic. Even those who do bring some of it back, like me, we don't start trying to spout it off as if it's fact.
Tonight, even in the other thread, is not the first time you've attempted to challenge me with ridiculous rhetoric. We've been here before, and I usually just ignore it. But tonight I didn't feel like doing so.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109853 - 08/19/15 06:09 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Dude. You're still stuck on the skepticism point I made on page two. We've moved way past that. Did you read about how I believe it's reasonable to believe that numbers have some concrete value beyond human perception? What aren't you getting? Catch up with the conversation or make good on your promise to leave.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109866 - 08/19/15 06:15 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm annoyed that I had to bring up skepticism in the first place. You all should know what a social construct is already. This is a psychedelic drug message board. Why am I having to prove the definition of a social construct? Whatever, i like teaching and arguing with people. Especially this guy: -E. Borodin. He learns fast and is one of my new favorite members.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (08/19/15 06:22 AM)
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109887 - 08/19/15 06:25 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Conversations shift and they lag. We've not moved past anything until you can flat out admit that if you're holding one object and I hand you another that you're now holding 2 objects. Which you have yet to do. The closest you've gotten is admitting it could be a possibility or is "reasonable". That's since you want to pick my post apart.
However, the overall message of what I just typed has nothing to do with your skepticism. It's that you're batshit crazy and you're used to people not being able to show you the error in your thoughts and are now getting angry because I am defying that paradigm.
I also said I wasn't going to continue to debate your ridiculous ideas, which I'm not. I'm now stating my opinion of you. For someone who wants me to catch up, you sure don't seem able to.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109895 - 08/19/15 06:31 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is too many quotes so let me make a few posts to show you.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109897 - 08/19/15 06:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:
healing said: No, you don't get it.
How do I know that what I see with my eyes is real? How could I prove to myself that what I see is reality? [insert your answer] How do I know that [insert your answer] is real? And so on.
It's a pretty simple thought experiment. You're supposed to learn this stuff along with other basic epistemology shit as part of your compulsory education.
Quote:
healing said:
Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:
healing said: I can, look. I deny that. I deny that objects exist in the first place. There is no such thing as an object for there to be. Just think of the implications of skepticism for a bit, dude. It's cute. Nothing can be proven with absolute certainty. All statements are suspect. There's no infallible evidence to prove one's own existence. You can't even be sure that you exist. That's the lesson of the skeptics.
Honestly, this is high school stuff.
Taking skepticism to such absurd extremes is high school stuff, regardless if you feel the objects exist or not, one object next to another is two objects, who cares if they "exist" in the philosophical sense, that has nothing to do with their quantity.
-E. Borodin
I know that. That's entirely beside the point.
We're talking about the social construct of value.
No, we are talking about math, and how skeptical argument can't apply to it in any reasonable sense.
-E. Borodin
Reasonable, yes. Reasonable is an opinion, one with which i agree.
That's the first one^
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (08/19/15 06:32 AM)
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109899 - 08/19/15 06:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: Your arguments can apply, but you have to take them to such an absurd extreme that it would be unreasonable...
-E. Borodin
Quote:
healing said: Yes. Again, as long as you recognize that reasonable is your opinion.
That's the second one ^
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (08/19/15 06:33 AM)
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109901 - 08/19/15 06:33 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
healing said: So I agree with your opinion that values very likely have some concrete existence beyond that which humans perceive.
There's number three ^
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109902 - 08/19/15 06:34 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
healing said: Dude. You're still stuck on the skepticism point I made on page two. We've moved way past that. Did you read about how I believe it's reasonable to believe that numbers have some concrete value beyond human perception? What aren't you getting? Catch up with the conversation or make good on your promise to leave.
There's number four. The one I directly stated to you ^
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109905 - 08/19/15 06:35 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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As I said, "reasonable" is your answer. At no point, as I said in my last post, had you admitted that if you had one object and someone handed you another, you would have 2. Quote all you like, but nothing you quote is going to make what I said untrue.
You always phrase it as if there's any doubt. Hence, you're batshit crazy. This is fundamental math.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109914 - 08/19/15 06:40 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I really am trying to teach you something, dude. Stick with me here because you're getting close. I'm using the word reasonable to make a point, the point being that humans are not infallible. Does that part make sense?
Humans do not know everything, do they? Science and math are not a complete knowledge of the universe right? They are still growing and evolving aren't they?
Our understanding of numbers is still being advanced. It is not complete.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (08/19/15 06:40 AM)
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109947 - 08/19/15 06:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sorry, I'll respond directly to your statements. I am a reasonable person. It is reasonable to say that 1+1=2 and I am a reasonable person, so I agree with basic arithmetic. So you win that one. Chalk that one up for you. 1+1 does in fact equal 2. You proved it!
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109956 - 08/19/15 07:00 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Again you've asked me to catch up and I've already covered this part as well.
Quote:
Shroomslip said: Yes, we can't prove anything with absolute certainty, because we can't even prove that we're "real" however that doesn't apply on the level you're applying it to.
As for the last bit, no our understanding of numbers is not expanding. Not in any sense that's even been hinted at in this thread. It is true there are a number of mathematical formulas that we cannot comprehend or calculate, but our understanding of numbers (the basic building blocks of math) is complete. Everything we do not understand is based on the the digits 0-9 and the functions used to combine those numbers. This is fully understood. It's only once you start throwing extremely complex combinations together that we haven't nailed it down.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: psi]
#22109958 - 08/19/15 07:01 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:
healing said: It is a series of three symbols which were created by humans. There is no special significance to any group of any symbols of any kind beyond that which is given to them by humans because they are all social constructs and nothing more.
Except numbers which existed before the social constructs, we did not invent math, we discovered it.
3.141592653...(PI)
1.61803398875 (the golden ratio) (phi)
These numbers to have intrinsic universal significance
(The number 9 is spiritually significant in Buddhism, for many reasons, but it's properties being one
Write numbers 1-8, one line running up one line running down as pictured below
1 8 2 7 3 6 4 5 5 4 6 3 7 2 8 1
They become the multiples of 9
18 27 36 45 --- 54 63 72 81
And they all equal 9 when added:
1+8 = 9 2+7 = 9 3+6 = 9 4+5 = 9 5+4 = 9 6+3 = 9 7+2 = 9 8+1 = 9
It's these properties that led man to attribute significance to number 9.)
-E. Borodin
This kind of stuff is all specific to base 10 though, so these are properties of the decimal system more than they are properties of the number 9. I'm pretty sure it works with whatever number is the highest digit in a given base.
In octal for example:
07 in base 8 is 7 in base 10 (7 * 1) 16 in base 8 is 14 in base 10 (7 * 2) 25 in base 8 is 21 in base 10 (7 * 3) 34 in base 8 is 28 in base 10 (7 * 4) 43 in base 8 is 35 in base 10 (7 * 5) 52 in base 8 is 42 in base 10 (7 * 6) 61 in base 8 is 49 in base 10 (7 * 7) 70 in base 8 is 56 in base 10 (7 * 8)
0 + 7 = 7 1 + 6 = 7 2 + 5 = 7 3 + 4 = 7 4 + 3 = 7 5 + 2 = 7 6 + 1 = 7 7 + 0 = 7
I suppose it does, I'm assuming it was the shear symmetry of 9 when expressed this way that lead to its being regarded by spiritual practitioners as sacred, who even built this 9 series into their temples... .. 09 18 27 36 45 -----mirror 54 63 72 81 90
And the sum total of every multiple of 9 = 9.
Then we have PI (3.14159...), which is what you get when you divide the distance around a circle (radius) by the distance across it (diameter), aside from being an infinite number and a curiosity, pi ends up playing an incredibly practical and useful role in math.
And there's the golden ratio (1.61803398875) which is everywhere, and applies to many things...
There are these discovered mathematics in nature that seem to almost play a Devine role in the universe's construction, it's the structure behind what we perceive as chaos..
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Nevermind....they are all symmetrical like this...I wonder why they chose 9 then...
-E. Borodin
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22109965 - 08/19/15 07:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: Again you've asked me to catch up and I've already covered this part as well.
Quote:
Shroomslip said: Yes, we can't prove anything with absolute certainty, because we can't even prove that we're "real" however that doesn't apply on the level you're applying it to.
As for the last bit, no our understanding of numbers is not expanding. Not in any sense that's even been hinted at in this thread. It is true there are a number of mathematical formulas that we cannot comprehend or calculate, but our understanding of numbers (the basic building blocks of math) is complete. Everything we do not understand is based on the the digits 0-9 and the functions used to combine those numbers. This is fully understood. It's only once you start throwing extremely complex combinations together that we haven't nailed it down.
Yes. Those furthest extremities of mathematic knowledge are what I speak of, and of which I have no understanding, but that's beside the point. We have a very good knowledge of mathematics, but not as of yet a complete understanding of the universe even though science is advancing very quickly.
But I'm talking about our fundamental capacity for understanding of the entirety of humanity. Even with all of our technology, we have a limited capacity to compute, to reason and understand.
We do not, as some say, know the mind of god, and that is the basic premise that I am attempting to convey.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22109995 - 08/19/15 07:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Then you chose the wrong place to try convey it. Those extremities had absolutely nothing to do with the OP, and have no bearing on your repeated attempts to dispute that 1 + 1 = 2. I really don't feel like going back and quoting it, so if you really care, go back and look for yourself, but now you're grasping at straws to justify it all.
Here I'll just quote your first post
Quote:
healing said: It is a series of three symbols which were created by humans. There is no special significance to any group of any symbols of any kind beyond that which is given to them by humans because they are all social constructs and nothing more.
What does THAT have to do with mathematical formulas we have yet to solve? Honestly? You are flat out saying that numbers are meaningless and just a construct of humans, to which I proved wrong in that math exists in nature regardless of some being capable of putting a label or concept to it. Numbers have significance regardless of the human race. Yes humans created "133" but "133" existed loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong before we were here to give it the characters "133".
So here we go round in a circle just like I said in the beginning. You've taught me nothing, though I'll admit I was curious.
You could actually learn something from me if you actually had the open mind you like to advertise in your sig. Start with the documentary I mentioned earlier. It's fascinating to see how numbers weave their way through universe without needing humans to label it.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22110012 - 08/19/15 07:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The idea is that we have a working approximation of the way the universe works which was developed through a tradition of conveyance of knowledge through a variety of means, the sum of which is our society as a whole.
Children do not have an innate knowledge of mathematics and few would be likely to develop something as complex as the furthest reaches of our current understanding of theoretical mathematics on their own, right? Without our society we wouldn't have all of the knowledge we have today.
Someone had to build the schools, someone had to drive the busses. The evolution of our society over thousands of years has resulted in the incomplete system of mathematics and science that we currently have.
All of our understanding relies upon the educational lineage of our society since before Pythagoras or Euclid.
That's what a social construct is. The sum total of the understanding of our universe in the western tradition is a group of concepts that were developed and advanced by the members of our society. Our society as a whole worked together to construct these extremely complex systems of knowledge. They created these amazingly complex social constructs.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (08/19/15 07:23 AM)
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22110030 - 08/19/15 07:31 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The only part of that argument that even makes any kind of sense is that children don't just know that the character 1 is related to the value of 1. Send a child to live with wolves, and he's going to know to 1 is greater than 0 and 2 is greater than one. He doesn't need to know the arbitrarily chosen word or symbol humans attach to it to understand the value.
All that is a construct, is the symbol used to represent that value. That's it, nothing more. Numbers are numbers. They are near universal constants. I'm not sure how numbers and their values relate to quantum mechanics, but a long of things tend to break down at that level. Pretty much every other single thing we accept as a constant does.
Even math has existed for far longer than schools have. You're trying to argue irrelevant shit again just to make yourself appear valid. Basic math is a benefit to people at all levels. Whether simple farmers/traders/gatherers, or millionaire walstreet goons. The only time the complex shit comes into play is when people are trying to understand more than the basic world they live in. So of course, it's going to require study and schools. But this is 100% irrelevant to the op or your original post which spawned this entire argument. Do I need to quote it again.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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psi
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: Nevermind....they are all symmetrical like this...I wonder why they chose 9 then...
-E. Borodin
There is some more cool decimal-specific shit with 9s as well. For example,
1/7 = 0.142857 = 142857 / 999999
This kind of thing works out for any rational number whose base-10 representation is a repeating decimal.
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22110045 - 08/19/15 07:36 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: The only part of that argument that even makes any kind of sense is that children don't just know that the character 1 is related to the value of 1. Send a child to live with wolves, and he's going to know to 1 is greater than 0 and 2 is greater than one. He doesn't need to know the arbitrarily chosen word or symbol humans attach to it to understand the value.
All that is a construct, is the symbol used to represent that value. That's it, nothing more. Numbers are numbers. They are near universal constants. I'm not sure how numbers and their values relate to quantum mechanics, but a long of things tend to break down at that level. Pretty much every other single thing we accept as a constant does.
Even math has existed for far longer than schools have. You're trying to argue irrelevant shit again just to make yourself appear valid. Basic math is a benefit to people at all levels. Whether simple farmers/traders/gatherers, or millionaire walstreet goons. The only time the complex shit comes into play is when people are trying to understand more than the basic world they live in. So of course, it's going to require study and schools. But this is 100% irrelevant to the op or your original post which spawned this entire argument. Do I need to quote it again.
I'm attempting to confer with you so that we can stay on the same page. I'm not disagreeing with basic mathematics. I never was. I was simply showing that it's possible for people to disagree with any and every piece of knowledge even if you know it to be true.
But we have a working definition of a social construct right?
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing] 1
#22110057 - 08/19/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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How many circles do we have to go in. Just get to whatever jaw dropping point you have to make already.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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healing
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22110078 - 08/19/15 07:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's nothing jaw dropping, just high school junior english class stuff you were supposed to learn.
Your society has it's social constructs and other societies have their social constructs and when they disagree they both have their own long lines of storied educational heroes to support whatever beliefs they have. So even though you may have some amazing predictive capabilities that allow you to know the orbits of planets and the decay of radioactive matter, you still don't know that god is the light, or that the middle path is the way, or whatever piece of knowledge it is from whatever other culture it is that you disagree with.
It's just you're dense, so it took a lot posting. Maybe you need to do your high school junior english class again.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing] 1
#22110106 - 08/19/15 08:00 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Holy fuck. You really drug me through another whole page to say what you had already said? Are you fucking kidding me?
I'm just at a loss for words right now, seriously. You are so beyond retarded it is mind numbing. You have psychedelic induced down syndrome or something.
You want a movie reference?
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: psi]
#22110155 - 08/19/15 08:16 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: Nevermind....they are all symmetrical like this...I wonder why they chose 9 then...
-E. Borodin
There is some more cool decimal-specific shit with 9s as well. For example,
1/7 = 0.142857 = 142857 / 999999
This kind of thing works out for any rational number whose base-10 representation is a repeating decimal.
Very interesting...
When I was younger I used to hate math, because I felt I was all dry calculation...I mean I know all the basics, but I really did not start actually taking a personal interest in math until just recently, and the more I learn the more amazing the concept becomes, there are all these seemingly intentionally constructed, intricate, complex mathematical formulas and anomalies that have recently caught my attention and sparked my interest in mathematics.
Thanks for the information, it's very appreciated, feel free to post any other interesting mathematical principles.
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: What's the signifigance of the number 133? [Re: healing]
#22110186 - 08/19/15 08:31 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
healing said: Math is one of our most basic social constructs. It's our limited minds' attempt at understanding a universe that reaches far beyond our conception. The system from which we attempt to reason some order is far too vast for some bunch of apes. Math and science are a product of a group of cultures, our best work, yes, but still a work in progress, you'll agree.
Any thought, any concept is a social construct, or do you not remember all of the people, and energy, and money that went into teaching it to you?
It's not a Quote:
minds' attempt at understanding a universe that reaches far beyond our conception
it IS the universe, these are the basic principles by which our universe was constructed, math was here before humans and will remain after, we did not invent math, we stumbled upon it, it's not a social construct by any means.
you said Quote:
Math and science are a product of a group of cultures
this is in no way true...
Man did not decide that one object added to another object equals two objects, he observed that it was so. Man did not create the structure that is math, even though it seems so intricate and precise that it had a creator, it was simply observed, it's an observable principle of the reality which surrounds us.
-E. Borodin
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psi
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One thing that's kind of cool in number theory is proof by mathematical induction. A proof by simple induction goes like this:
Say we have a claim that may or may not hold true for a given natural number n, and we want to prove that the claim is true for every natural number. Testing every natural number is impossible since the set of natural numbers is infinite. To prove by simple induction that our claim is true for all natural numbers, we need to demonstrate two things:
(A) - The claim is true for the first natural number. Depending on the specific field of study, this is either 0 or 1. (B) - If the claim is true for a given value of n, then the claim must also be true for the following number n+1. Typically you demonstrate this with algebra.
If both of those parts are true, then by sort of a domino effect we've shown it to be true for every natural number. If our original claim is true for n=0, then (B) tells us it must also be true for n=1. Now that we know it's true for n=1, we can apply (B) again to show it's true for n=2, and so on. The process can be repeated an arbitrary number of times, so for any natural number you can think of, we can show it to be true for that number by applying (B) as many times as necessary.
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healing
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:
healing said: Math is one of our most basic social constructs. It's our limited minds' attempt at understanding a universe that reaches far beyond our conception. The system from which we attempt to reason some order is far too vast for some bunch of apes. Math and science are a product of a group of cultures, our best work, yes, but still a work in progress, you'll agree.
Any thought, any concept is a social construct, or do you not remember all of the people, and energy, and money that went into teaching it to you?
It's not a Quote:
minds' attempt at understanding a universe that reaches far beyond our conception
it IS the universe, these are the basic principles by which our universe was constructed, math was here before humans and will remain after, we did not invent math, we stumbled upon it, it's not a social construct by any means.
you said Quote:
Math and science are a product of a group of cultures
this is in no way true...
Man did not decide that one object added to another object equals two objects, he observed that it was so. Man did not create the structure that is math, even though it seems so intricate and precise that it had a creator, it was simply observed, it's an observable principle of the reality which surrounds us.
-E. Borodin
It could have been observed, but you wouldn't know. You never observed it. You weren't given a chance to observe it for yourself. They bombarded your developing brain with it way before you could even form a cohesive thought. You were taught that it can be observed for quite a long while before you realized that it is possible to be observed and you had your aha moment as a child learning that 1 is a number and that values exist. Then you promptly forgot it and they taught it to you again. Your available set of experiences are inextricably interwoven into your culture since before you existed. Just like everyone else. You've never had a thought of your own. All of your thoughts are a product of either your biology and so your ancestors or your very specific place in this system over which you never had much more than a modicum of control. Your body was conceived, gestated and born to understand mathematics. You probably had observations of your own that were cast aside because you were told to and because children have an endless supply of observations that don't make sense or have any basis in reality. Observations are not at all infallible.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (08/19/15 05:01 PM)
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