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OfflineAnotherTool
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Major casing trouble
    #22107947 - 08/18/15 06:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm working on my first casing and it was going well up until it was fruiting time. I thought I did everything right, but clearly something went wrong and I'm pretty much clueless as to where I went wrong. I've got 2 6"x9" pans with roughly 2 inches of colonized grain covered with about 3/4" of casing soil. In 2 weeks of getting pins I've managed to get one mushroom out of each tray. The surface of the casing is absolutely inundated with primodia and pins. Hundreds of them if not thousands of them. There's simply too many to pull out. I have no clue what to do at this point to recover the casings, and I'm VERY curious what causes this because I've got 6.5 pounds of colonizing grain about 3 weeks away from casing.
Any help or advice would be deeply appreciated. Getting seriously bummed out on this.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: AnotherTool]
    #22108021 - 08/18/15 06:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Cased straight grains typically cannot yield their nutritional capacity because they lack the water to do so.

Are the pins still pins or are they all aborts?

Perhaps try pouring 1/2 cup water under them, they will probably suck it right up (ie bottomwatering.)  If they respond by sucking it up and recommensing growth, continue adding water until the fruits mature or it is no longer being sucked up.

In the future you should spawn your colonized grains at to coco coir, then case if you desire.  There are tons of guides on this.  Frank's 12 steps or whatever is probably the most popular.  Mini monos are a nice way to start (see: Pasty likes mini monos)

Also, 3/4" casing is a bit more than people typically use.  Sounds like it had no problem colonizing though.  I assume you saw bits of mycellium on the surface.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisiblePirateSwazey
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22108328 - 08/18/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
Cased straight grains typically cannot yield their nutritional capacity because they lack the water to do so.




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Offlinemegatacular
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: PirateSwazey]
    #22108543 - 08/18/15 08:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PirateSwazey said:
Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
Cased straight grains typically cannot yield their nutritional capacity because they lack the water to do so.








I cannot stop starring at pirates phyco pic of uncle Sam. Its fuckennfreakin me out. Ha


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OfflineAnotherTool
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: PirateSwazey]
    #22108581 - 08/18/15 08:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm working with rye grain bags. The casing soil is also bagged stuff. The mycelium easily ripped right through 3/4" of that stuff. In fact I was worried about overlay, but seeing as how I've never done this before and I look at pictures of what other people's casings look like, I clearly don't know the difference between overlay and what it's supposed to look like. It all looks like what people describe as overlay to me. Also, when I VERY lightly misted the first time every trace of surface mycelium was dead in 6 hours.

Would cold shocking them or letting the casing get too dry for a day or two cause this problem?


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Offlinemegatacular
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: AnotherTool]
    #22109483 - 08/19/15 01:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Looknup late casing in the search box on here. I'm going to try it.myself maybe not as late as pinning but to me it seems like a good idea. Then u don't worry about overlay or hydration to upper layer of sub. I'd like to hear then final result of this thread though I'm interested as well to know what others think on the matter. Maybe misting is not.nessisary that early on. Ive.never.misted or fanned any of.my tubs. The last time I got awesome pinsets and almost a blanket of fruits but somehow enedmup with mold again close to harvest that consumed the entire bottoms of every fruit and the casing layer. So I'm still trying to get my first seccsessfull grow yet


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: AnotherTool]
    #22109492 - 08/19/15 02:01 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It may depend on strain, but the one I use fully colonizes the casing no matter what I do.  I induce FC's @ about 25% surface area colonization, and by the time I see pins it's at 100%.  I could put more casing ontop, but it seems like it serves little purpose other than to get peatlicious crap all over my harvest.

Cold shocking doesn't do anything for cubes AFAIK.  It's a tropical species, it would be waiting a long time for a natural "cold shock" in many of the places it grows.  Sounds like you're using some seriously outdated info for your grow.

It can look yellowish and dry if it dries out.  Hard to say if that happened knowing nothing about your FC or your conditions.

Since you got a good pinset, overlay was probably not an issue.  Again, I would try bottomwatering.  The casing should feel moist not soaked, and the mycellium should be bright white and mildly glistening.

Another possibility is bacterial spawn, which can yield some shitty small fruits before contaminating.  Sounds like it colonized the casing too aggressively for that to be the issue though.

IDK man, without images or better descriptions of the issues and the setup, it's hard to say what might have gone wrong.  It's hard enough with them :smile:


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22109519 - 08/19/15 02:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

How long has it been? Thousand's of pins sounds right. Sounds like the casing layer is good. A little thick maybe but fine since you have the pins.
So it stalled or are you being impatient? Sometimes a few come out early compared to the rest. Give it a few more days. Are the pins growing?

The grain should produce something. Sometimes contams will stall things. Does the substrate feel solid or loose. It should be a solid piece by now. It is not a good sign if you bend the tray and it easily breaks apart.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

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I need to proofread


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: tahoe]
    #22109527 - 08/19/15 02:24 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Highly doubt that you had overlay. Overlay doesn't even really happen for our species. It happens on agaricus. It will have overlay if you don't case it. Even if you do case it, it can still have overlay. Check it out:

Quote:

houdinihar said:
update time--a lot has happened over the weekend as you'll see.





the lone stranger


pink gill stage before turning dark brown


since these were taken there has been a rapid maturity of the carpophores with awesome spore release. everything has turned a beautiful dark brown with zillions of spores everywhere. absolutely wonderful.

houdinihar




Layers and layers of thick crusty mycelium mushrooms can't grow through


--------------------
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Edited by Mad Season (08/19/15 02:24 AM)


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OfflineAnotherTool
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: Mad Season]
    #22110339 - 08/19/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

From what I'm gathering I think I may have too aggressively tried to promote fruiting. I didn't think it was coming along at the right time and I dropped the temp and humidity pretty sharply well before the casing was covered. Even now less than half the surface is covered but nearly the entire surface began producing pins that abort inside a day or 2. Would dropping temp and humidity too early and letting things get too dry lead to such insane pinning and aborts?


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: AnotherTool]
    #22110360 - 08/19/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

No and no. Not enough moisture in the substrate to be able to sustain such a large pinset would do it, and a lack of misting. Also stop doing cold shocks. Know your mushroom. This isn't a PNW mushroom like oysters, that grow in fall. This is a tropical species. Temps rarely dip below 65. I honestly don't know how you could aggressively fruit.. you just up the fae as much as you can, and mist when needed lol

Try spawning to a bulk substrate next time. It has much more water content.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Edited by Mad Season (08/19/15 09:42 AM)


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InvisiblePirateSwazey
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: Mad Season]
    #22110719 - 08/19/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Try spawning to a bulk substrate next time. It has much more water content.




--------------------
 

BULK RYE PREP  -  MY FAVORITE THREADS  -  BUILD A FLOWHOOD



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OfflineAnotherTool
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: PirateSwazey]
    #22111426 - 08/19/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Gotcha. I pulled one out of the pan and it does feel light like its real dry. Would you suggest just dropping those right on moist perlite since they're holding together on their own? Do you think I can recover this batch?
Also, as far as misting, when should I start that? I notice even the lightest misting hurts the mycelium if it hasn't pinned yet. Wait until pinning begins? And I thought I was using a bulk substrate for the casing. Is this stuff not bulk substrate?
http://www.earthstongue.com/product/ET_MIX_CASING_SOIL


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OfflineAnotherTool
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: AnotherTool]
    #22128423 - 08/22/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Good news! Moisture was indeed the issue and I've got VERY stout, richly colored pins showing good growth. I pulled those casings out of the pans and set the on well moistened perlite and misted them much more. The casing layer is pinning well and I've even got a few beginning to pin directly out of the grain layer on the sides.

Thank you guys for the advice. I'm still getting the hang of this. It seems like a lot of people get results faster than I do and it makes me think I'm doing something wrong. I need to be more patient and realize this is harder to screw up than I keep fearing it is.


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Offlinemegatacular
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: AnotherTool]
    #22129310 - 08/23/15 12:42 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm the same way man. I'm terrified I'm gonna ruin everything by breathing too hard near my tubs. Lol. But I know I need to just chill and take notes.  Cause practice makes perfect.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: megatacular]
    #22129326 - 08/23/15 12:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

And then there's me.. I take trays out and leave them on tables as center pieces when they're on their final stages of growth. Breathe all over them and shit.. Show them off to my girl :lol:. Colonization of substrate is the best way to ward off contaminations. If you've seen me around, I always say to never blame your environment (No matter how dirty) on a contamination. It's always sterile procedures (agar and spawn. Not bulk subs and fruiting) and prep.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
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Edited by Mad Season (08/23/15 12:56 AM)


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Offlinemegatacular
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: Mad Season]
    #22129332 - 08/23/15 12:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

HA. Badass. Im so doing exactly that once I get a good flush bro. +5 mushies for you


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OfflineAnotherTool
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: megatacular]
    #22142551 - 08/25/15 07:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Update!
I've got a decent handful of richly colored boomers sprouting with determination! I've even got these things growing right out of the bottom of the grain layer near where it's making good contact with the wet perlite.
My next question is how much bulk substrate should I spawn the grain with before casing? I was thinking 50/50 would be good. Any advice?


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: AnotherTool]
    #22142593 - 08/25/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I like 1 part grain 2 part substrate (1:2)
but anywhere from 1:1 to 1:4 is perfectly fine!


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OfflineAnotherTool
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: spacechildo]
    #22143618 - 08/25/15 10:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you! I've only got 10 pounds of substrate but I've got 6.5 pounds of colonizing grain. I can't do much more than 1:1 or else I won't have enough for a casing layer. I had a bag of it spoil on me or else I'd have more. I REALLY don't want to deal with this dryness issue again.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: spacechildo]
    #22143788 - 08/25/15 11:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
I like 1 part grain 2 part substrate (1:2)
but anywhere from 1:1 to 1:4 is perfectly fine!



What about 1:12? :derfase:

Don't try it at home noobs. Do like space says lol. At least when starting out or working on problems like the OP. Just being a bit of a smart ass here.


--------------------
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How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

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Edited by Mad Season (08/25/15 11:20 PM)


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OfflineAnotherTool
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: Mad Season]
    #22144988 - 08/26/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm doing this in the corner of my bedroom. I think 80 pounds of spawn might take up a little bit more space than I can spare. I think that might also lead to some logistics issues I don't have any good ways to solve at this point.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: AnotherTool]
    #22145019 - 08/26/15 08:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

80 lbs of spawn? where'd that come from?


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OfflineAnotherTool
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: spacechildo]
    #22146994 - 08/26/15 02:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'd end up with 80 pounds if I cut my 6.5 pounds of grain by a twelveth.


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InvisiblePirateSwazey
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: AnotherTool]
    #22147065 - 08/26/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Doesn't make 80lbs of spawn lol.

Still 6.5 :derp:


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OfflineprofessorFATTYCAP
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Re: Major casing trouble [Re: Mad Season]
    #22147390 - 08/26/15 04:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
No and no. Not enough moisture in the substrate to be able to sustain such a large pinset would do it, and a lack of misting. Also stop doing cold shocks. Know your mushroom. This isn't a PNW mushroom like oysters, that grow in fall. This is a tropical species. Temps rarely dip below 65. I honestly don't know how you could aggressively fruit.. you just up the fae as much as you can, and mist when needed lol

Try spawning to a bulk substrate next time. It has much more water content.



absolutely .the strait grain sub didnt hav enuff water 2 support such a larj set .solution spawn to bulk .i use straw dung and my specimans are riiiii fukng dick you less or more if u prefer


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