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makaveli8x8
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: LSDreamer] 2
#22108908 - 08/18/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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LSDreamer said:
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koods said: Sounds like every climate change skeptical scientist.. Always have grants from oil companies or the Cato institute.
Except for the part where there's overwhelming evidence and consensus on climate change and little evidence and consensus that GMOs are harmful. No GMOs on the market are especially harmful and they've saved countless lives. GM technology is how we're going to feed 8-9+ billion people.
thats great, lets feed 9 billion people while destroying all other life on the planet, smart thinking. GM techonology is not the answer, its the nail in the coffin. For life on earth to exist their has to be diversity, balance. GMO's try to outsmart nature, to make certain plants stronger, to resist other life from eating it, ect. At the direct cost of other life starving. To grow in shit soil, instead of us actually improving the soil. Its putting a bandaid on the problem instead of addressing the real issues, at the expense of the problem growing bigger to the point we can't fix it when we finally decide to address it.
GMO's = the end of the food chain. We are basically saying fuck everything else on earth, and in turn earth is going to say fuck humans, and we won't realize until its too late that money is not going to fix the shit that greed cost us.
Depopulation is the only answer, its the simpilist answer, and its clearly the least harmful one, the smartest one. If we are supposed to be so smart and entitled to rule the planet and decide what species live and die, then why is it depopulation/population control is never taken to debates. Greed. So if greed is what controls our society, we know that society will fail, we know what happens in the end. There would be no need for GMO's if there wasn't greed. Ontop of all of that is the damage to DNA that GMO's will cause. Anyone who knows anything about programing knows that cutting code out and randomly placing it into other shit is going to cause problems. They were doing this shit back when they didn't even know what most of the DNA was, they prob still don't know. They are basically just now starting to understand that genes have expressions and a bunch of other shit like that. So point is they can splice in some shit to make more vitamin C, and then a couple generations from now after cross breeding that caused the plant to produce poison for all we know, or maybe it causes all the other vitamins to decrease to 0.
So then it turns into this big fucking chain of events constantly trying to fight it and it ends up out of control. Its just one example, but the main point is we still have zero fucking idea of how DNA and the genome truly works, we do not know the side effects.
At the very least, any GMO needs to be treated like a drug, it needs 15-20 years of testing, every single GMO needs 20 years of testing to be sure its safe, and the testing we have isn't even close to that, we are basically lab rats being tested. Just because this shit hasn't caused problems yet, doesn't mean its not going to. Nobody is truely testing for safety because if they find that it is dangerous the entire industry goes bankrupt, everyones job is gone in that industry.
GMO is not the same as hybrid breeding, breeding the DNA is combined in a way the nature has decided works. There are protections in place, just like with mammals, breeding can't happen unless natures protections let it, thats why a human can't breed with dogs. GMO's bypass all this, and it is and will fuck DNA up, forever. and thats the thing simple minds simply can't understand, once this DNA is out there, its out there FOREVER, these fuckups will be in the DNA of plants until not a single pollen is in the air or soil anymore. To let this technology out on the loose like that you have to be 1000000% sure about it, between greed, corruption, manipulation, errors in labs, ect ect......our society can't be trusted, there is no way we are close enough to say its safe, safe enough to ruin our food supply forever? not even close. every person in every job has alwasy fucked something up in their line of work, here we have a job that involves our DNA the most important thing in the world, its not a question of if, its a question of when, that something will go wrong and the world is changed forever.
Edited by makaveli8x8 (08/18/15 10:08 PM)
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Stonehenge
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: LSDreamer]
#22108920 - 08/18/15 10:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Actually, roundup ready crops do use a lot of roundup. That is what they are made for. Why would a farmer pay more for those bullshit seeds and not use it when regular seeds will do but don't have the resistance? You are also mistaken about the safety of roundup. It has been declared a carcinogen by the un. This has all been established in the other thread.
>why don't you go to a village in Africa and explain to them why you'd rather their children die than allow Golden Rice to exist.
Which is a different crop entirely. Actually, we could do with a lot less population in the world. Not just shortages of food and water are getting much worse, but also pollution. China is a filth heap of pollution and the latest disaster with poisons in the port that exploded are not going to help. GM is not going to solve the food crisis, got any evidence of that? That has already been debunked.
The point is that the "independent" researcher was on the take from the very same company he was reviewing. Zap and pris might say a mere 25k won't influence anyone but people get killed for a lot less than that and he got a lot more than that. That is all he was forced to divulge, that plus monsatan financing his trips all over the world to propagandize people like yourself. See, it worked.
music and mak, you guys are 100% correct
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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LSDreamer
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: musiclover420] 1
#22108935 - 08/18/15 10:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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musiclover420 said: Maybe if Europeans didn't fuck africa up so bad they wouldn't need gmo's to feed themselves.
And what is roundup supposed to be safe compared to? Other toxic synthetic pesticides? 
You can read about Here and Here. Roundup displaced a number of more toxic pesticides.
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LSDreamer
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: Stonehenge]
#22108985 - 08/18/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't think you're getting my point. Obviously roundup ready crops use roundup and aren't Golden Rice. My point is that condemning GM technology is ridiculous because it isn't inherently dangerous. roundup ready crops aren't more harmful than other crops just because they were modified to work around roundup's mechanism of action. Whether of not the increased use of roundup vs. other pesticides is a net positive or a net negative is a separate issue from whether or not GM technology is a net positive or a net negative. Golden Rice is simply an example of a GM crops that is a clear positive.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: LSDreamer]
#22109013 - 08/18/15 10:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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you do realize everything has a cost? you can't just tell a plant to grow bigger, produce this, or that. it takes energy, pathways, ect ect. by changing something, you are indirectly changing other things, the question is what, and they arn't even looking for the 'what'.
its sort of like giving a person steroids (bigger muscles) and telling them ok now go do 4x the work. how are the feeding those muscles? where are they getting the extra energy? what are the costs of all this on the other functions of the body? maybe the steroid acts like one of those funky rc's and suddenly dude starts missing his toes. maybe they spliced it in a spot that affects other things, or after cross breeding it mutates, maybe its after 50 cross breedings that it mutates, we have no idea, none.
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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musiclover420
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: LSDreamer]
#22109034 - 08/18/15 10:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The first link seems to just talk about glyphosphate and focuses mainly on its LD50 and toxicity. Though I did not read through it all I just skimmed over it.
There is much more to pollution then toxicity and LD50's, not to mention I did not see anything about the byproducts of roundup.
Here are some quotes from the second link:
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The purpose of this article is not to claim that glyphosate and GR crops are the be all end all of weed control (they’re not)
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what critics invariably fail to mention is that its rise in popularity also coincided with the phasing out of other herbicides, most of which were significantly more toxic than glyphosate
I think the real point is people are criticizing the use of pesticides in general. There are many better alternatives.
Polyculteral gardening is one great example as it allows more sustainable year round harvests and more food per area if done right.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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makaveli8x8
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: musiclover420]
#22109054 - 08/18/15 10:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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exactly, where money should be spent is in creating more complex farm machines that can more easily do polyculture.
they talk about crop rotations are good for the soil, but imagine machines that can plant a bunch of different plants in a logical way that works and then be able to harvest them separately but all at once. Need to be bringing computer technology to the farm fields.
and all this contaminated foods we keep getting causing people to get food poisoning is skyrocketing recently at least its showing up in the news where we see it more often anyway. but we should be focusing on how to keep our food cleaner and healthier and not have mexican immigrants harvesting our food with diarrhea all over their hands.
all this money spent on GMO's surely we could have found a way to eliminate the need for that to be happening
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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LSDreamer
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22109157 - 08/18/15 11:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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makaveli8x8 said: you do realize everything has a cost? you can't just tell a plant to grow bigger, produce this, or that. it takes energy, pathways, ect ect. by changing something, you are indirectly changing other things, the question is what, and they arn't even looking for the 'what'.
its sort of like giving a person steroids (bigger muscles) and telling them ok now go do 4x the work. how are the feeding those muscles? where are they getting the extra energy? what are the costs of all this on the other functions of the body? maybe the steroid acts like one of those funky rc's and suddenly dude starts missing his toes. maybe they spliced it in a spot that affects other things, or after cross breeding it mutates, maybe its after 50 cross breedings that it mutates, we have no idea, none.
Genetic modifications that increase yields, or produce other beneficial properties, are rarely as simple as making the plant grow larger or grow more fruit, etc. They look for specific effects they want to produce. Often times a minor alteration in how an organism, any organism, functions can cause of to be significantly more, or less, successful in a particular environment. For example, insect resistant crops use genes that were originally identified in certain bacterial strains to produce proteins that kill insects. Unlike many insecticides, the proteins are actually highly selective, so when producing crops that use this method, only genes that produce proteins that kill the insects common in the area they'll be grown in need to be used. This has helped reduce overall pesticide use and is safe for humans to eat. The additional energy cost for producing a small handful of additional proteins is negligible in the total energy use of a plant.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: LSDreamer]
#22109392 - 08/19/15 01:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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so you prove my point, changing one thing can affect others aspects of the plant. The grasp science has on all these affects is small at best and starts and ends with trial and error. They arn't trial and erroring all possible outcomes. They are testing its ability to make money, not its ability to not make it. Aka they tested its ability to thrive and found in some enviroments it did worse. They arn't running tests to see DNA damage, mutations, and side effects with GMO cross breeding multiple generations down the road for many reasons, one of which is they plan to always sell you the seeds, aka they plan to wipe out all natural plants.
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Edited by makaveli8x8 (08/19/15 01:12 AM)
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Stonehenge
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: LSDreamer]
#22110148 - 08/19/15 08:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Mak and music have some excellent points. What I want is not for all gm's to be taken off the market, what I want first of all is for them to be labeled. The consumer has a right to know what they are buying and monsatan is relentless is opposing this. Sadly, many of the sheep buy into their lies and repeat them.
Roundup ready crops have a heavier load of roundup still on them. It is impossible to wash off entirely. Did you know they have corn with bt toxin in it? Try washing that off, its built into the genome. And yet bugs are adapting to it and other things gaining immunity faster than we can come up with more poison and we are eating the poison.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Prisoner#1
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: Stonehenge]
#22110216 - 08/19/15 08:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Stonehenge said: Yeah, he was so proud of being backed by Monsanto that he told everyone. Well no he didn't actually, he forgot. And the 25k was just the tip of the iceberg. The grant did not cover travel, lodging and other perks, that was extra plus who knows what else? He certainly is not going to volunteer the info.
would you mind showing us where he was required to toss this information out into the public arena?
mind showing us what he did spend the money on?
want to show us where gilles-eric seralini actually gets his funding to claim that GMOs are bad given that he's actually publishing papers that make this claim despite the fact that every study done shows the opposite
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Prisoner#1
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: Stonehenge]
#22110236 - 08/19/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Mak and music have some excellent points. What I want is not for all gm's to be taken off the market, what I want first of all is for them to be labeled. The consumer has a right to know what they are buying and monsatan is relentless is opposing this. Sadly, many of the sheep buy into their lies and repeat them.
Roundup ready crops have a heavier load of roundup still on them. It is impossible to wash off entirely. Did you know they have corn with bt toxin in it? Try washing that off, its built into the genome. And yet bugs are adapting to it and other things gaining immunity faster than we can come up with more poison and we are eating the poison.
want to show us the peer reviewed studies that back these claims, want to show us where the bacillus thuringiensis added to corn is any worse for someone than what the organic farmers add to their crops for pest control
and before you claim that it's not used for pest control on organic crops
http://www.bt.ucsd.edu/organic_farming.html http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/pest-control/how-to-use-bt-pesticide-zw0z1304zkin.aspx
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makaveli8x8
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: Prisoner#1]
#22110307 - 08/19/15 09:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/josh-zepps-2
start listening at the 2 hour 10min mark, some interesting stuff indirectly related to some of this
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22110314 - 08/19/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/josh-zepps-2
start listening at the 2 hour 10min mark, some interesting stuff indirectly related to some of this
here's one that's directly related
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Stonehenge
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: Prisoner#1]
#22110319 - 08/19/15 09:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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>want to show us where the bacillus thuringiensis added to corn is any worse for someone than what the organic farmers add to their crops for pest control
Farmers spray it on the outside of the plant. It normally does not touch the corn we eat. GM corn with bt toxin in it, has it built into the plant itself so its impossible to wash off as I already explained. Are you doing a zappa on us and pretending to be dumb?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Prisoner#1
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: Stonehenge]
#22110322 - 08/19/15 09:25 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >want to show us where the bacillus thuringiensis added to corn is any worse for someone than what the organic farmers add to their crops for pest control
Farmers spray it on the outside of the plant. It normally does not touch the corn we eat. GM corn with bt toxin in it, has it built into the plant itself so its impossible to wash off as I already explained. Are you doing a zappa on us and pretending to be dumb?
horse shit, complete horse shit from someone that clearly knows nothing about agriculture
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makaveli8x8
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22110336 - 08/19/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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so a poison is spliced into our food, what happens when it mutates and becomes a more potent toxin or produces more and more levels of it until the food becomes uneatable? What happens when it cross breeds and all were left with is just strains with that poison in it? I know they say they are infertile but eventually it'll happen.
this same thing is happening with virus's and germs, they are engineering them then they get loose and thats why we are getting so many of these crazy ass flu's n shit that kill so many people now. They have algae and other shit designed to make fuel or drugs, then that shit gets out in the wild.....what happens when the ocean somehow gets algae that produces fuel? the entire ocean gets polluted or set on fire or what? entire ocean could just get wiped out
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22110363 - 08/19/15 09:38 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: so a poison is spliced into our food, what happens when it mutates and becomes a more potent toxin or produces more and more levels of it until the food becomes uneatable? What happens when it cross breeds and all were left with is just strains with that poison in it? I know they say they are infertile but eventually it'll happen.
is it toxic to humans?
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makaveli8x8
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: Prisoner#1]
#22110421 - 08/19/15 09:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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everything is toxic if you get to much of it, and allergys can develop as well. something like that with peanuts
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: “Independent” GMO Researcher Forced to Release Emails Showing $25K Grant from Monsanto [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22110447 - 08/19/15 10:02 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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makaveli8x8 said: everything is toxic if you get to much of it, and allergys can develop as well. something like that with peanuts
then you surely must be eager to show us what levels become toxic to humans
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