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theundying
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Registered: 06/02/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: mustangbob3]
#22111596 - 08/19/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustangbob3 said: just soak it in shower then leave excess to drip out for 10-15min. then put cakes back in.
By "soak" I assume I could run the shower over the entire tub for about five minuets then let it drain? Or should I get a bucket and soak the perlite and transfer back to the tub?
As a side note, I'd like to thank everyone that has commented. I'm sure someone else will run into this exact problem , and I hope they find this and it helps them out. Cheers guys/gals.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: mustangbob3]
#22111642 - 08/19/15 12:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It'd only be on the walls from water droplets that are big enough to do it (through misting). That is hydration though, not humidity. Humidity is just water molecule ppm in the air. It really shouldn't make droplets on the walls, because it's in the air.
This might just be pedantics, but 100% humid air isn't possible in a chamber with even just GE holes. 100% humidity (over saturation of water molecules in the air) would happen if we made a mono that was air tight. Since humid air rises, it'll swirl around for a while. But as the air gets saturated it will get still due to it not being able to take more humidity in. That is 100% humidity. Regular monos at best do 90% humidity.
If you didn't mist the walls/over spray, it really shouldn't have any condensation on the walls. I don't really see how a sgfc would have a temperature difference. Generally when dealing with humidity problems, you'd just add more perlite, poke the bottom holes free of perlite, take it closer to the center of a room, and raise it off the ground more. Since perlite is so airy and it wicks moisture into the air so well, the best thing to do is to keep it wet constantly (as your suggesting), and not restrict any holes on all 6 sides for the air to flow through the perlite better.
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DampMushroom


Registered: 12/01/14
Posts: 115
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days *DELETED* [Re: mustangbob3]
#22111659 - 08/19/15 12:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by DampMushroomReason for deletion: I've got to leave for a couple years. Hope the best for all of y'all.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: Mad Season]
#22111762 - 08/19/15 01:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
It'd only be on the walls from water droplets that are big enough to do it (through misting). That is hydration though, not humidity. Humidity is just water molecule ppm in the air. It really shouldn't make droplets on the walls, because it's in the air.
and what makes you think it stays in the air!! its not scientifically possible.
the air is lifting to leave the tub so it is losing humidity/h20 to rise! this is science!
also your shotgun tek if i remember right it says its partly temp differential that pulls air in the bottom!!
but now your saying there is no temp diff between the tub and outside so you must also think that there is no temp diff inside the tub between the top and bottom.
so by your logic anf info your sgfc shouldnt work at all!!
see what im saying.
1 min you will say temp diff ect pulls air in the bottom but then say cant be condensation as there is no differential!
there is a temp diff between the top of the tub and the bottom and also with the outside room this is what controls bouyancy driven ventilation that you know the sgfc uses.
you cant have it both ways!
obviously something is wrong in your understanding lol or your just spouting out what others have written without even checking if it was right!!
the biggest misconceptions in this hobby are base around this!
truth now.. water at any temp above 0 will evapourate fact. heat just increases the rate. water draws heat from anywhere it can to evap,like a magnet air loses water to rise. and air can make condensation without a cold surface to do it on.
some great reading for anyone who want to understand more i would direct first to the mollier diagram.
cold humid air sinks. warm humid air hovers. warmer still it loses water and rises more untill its density is destroyed.
thats why clouds dissipate into thin air at certain altitude. they dont have enough density to hold h20 so no clouds anymore.
and due in the morning is as its colder the humid cold air sinks and becomes more humid and eventually drops out due on the ground.
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Edited by mustangbob3 (08/19/15 01:18 PM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: mustangbob3]
#22111892 - 08/19/15 01:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I never once said anything about temperature?? Besides saying there should be no difference. Please quote me saying there is a difference in temps. I've never once said that. I was talking about buoyancy. Aka humid air will rise. That has nothing to do with temperature. Just that as air is exchanged through pressure and buoyancy, it'll get saturated in the perlite.
Quote:
A properly made SGFC uses natural air currents to create high relative humidity (RH) and constant fresh air exchange (FAE).
The fresh air flows in through the bottom holes and rises up through the damp perlite assisting in evaporation. This evaporation is where you get your humidity.
Because humid air rises, it flows up and out the other holes, thus allowing more fresh air in through the bottom. This is how you get constant FAE without sacrificing humidity.
I used this quote.. where does it talk about temperature?
Read it.. where does it say there's a temperature difference? http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20195542
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theundying
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: DampMushroom]
#22111900 - 08/19/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DampMushroom said: What kind of syringe are you using (don't say the vendor)? I think you should stop wasting your time with those crappy diluted spore syringes that come from the main suppliers you always here about and you need to get a really dark print and make your own. I have noticed when growing multispore that an almost purple syringe full of healthy spores from a large expensive print does the job better than the premade garbage; more spores = higher chance of strong genetics. I made a syringe from a print that just spilled a load of spores into the jar of water without me even having to open the print. If you wanna keep messing with that cake then put it in a room with indirect sunlight and make sure you stop misting when there's condesation on the lid otherwise the fresh air exchange will be choked off because of water buildup in your perlite.
I am using a multi-spore syringe from a pretty popular vendor. Like I said, they sat around for six months before I used them and they were in a warm and humid storage unit for four of those months. I haven't looked into making syringes from prints. I have empty and sterile syringes. Maybe I'll try that. I'm sure it's not too hard...
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: Mad Season]
#22111928 - 08/19/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: I never once said anything about temperature?? Besides saying there should be no difference. Please quote me saying there is a difference in temps. I've never once said that. I was talking about buoyancy. Aka humid air will rise. That has nothing to do with temperature. Just that as air is exchanged through pressure and buoyancy, it'll get saturated in the perlite.
Quote:
A properly made SGFC uses natural air currents to create high relative humidity (RH) and constant fresh air exchange (FAE).
The fresh air flows in through the bottom holes and rises up through the damp perlite assisting in evaporation. This evaporation is where you get your humidity.
Because humid air rises, it flows up and out the other holes, thus allowing more fresh air in through the bottom. This is how you get constant FAE without sacrificing humidity.
I used this quote.. where does it talk about temperature?
Read it.. where does it say there's a temperature difference? http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20195542
exactly you proved my point! where does the pressure difference ect come from...
its prescribed by heat or the temps! you didnt need to say it. the density(bouyancy) diff is cause by heat the pressure is caused by density difference. so also prescribed by heat.
your just showing even more your lack of knowledge. you dont even realise these things all equate to the same thing!! all controlled by heat... temps!!!
also guess what myc gives off heat. and guess what move near a heat source it gets warmer move away cooler. tubs have 2 warm points. 1 at the top and 1 near sub inbetween is equilibrium.
even in the tub there is temp differentials as there is with the room its in. if there was not then it would be at equilibrium with the room and you would have no flow of air.
bouancy convection solely relys on a temp difference to work!! so you see the contradiction.
your saying sgfcs work because of temp differences and then say there is not one???
cant have it both ways.
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Edited by mustangbob3 (08/19/15 01:27 PM)
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theundying
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22111962 - 08/19/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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So, here is my plan.
1. Soak cakes in spring water for six hours. 2. Place SGFC in shower and let cold water from shower soak perlite for five mins. 3. Place lid on SGFC and let drain for 10 mins. 4. Place SGFC back in living room on soda cans and wait for the cakes. 5. Put cakes back in chamber. 6. In the morning, remove cakes and repeat steps 2-5. 7. Mist and fan. Mist and fan. Mist and fan. 8. Tomorrow evening, repeat steps 2-5., then again the next day.
After this point, I should be able to mist and fan like normal and all should be good to go.....I hope.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: mustangbob3]
#22111963 - 08/19/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah I get it now lol. It wouldn't evaporate without the heat (energy). Something I learned about in like the 5th grade . Anyways.. it still seems like in the end what we said was the way to fix it. I'm just happy to learn more about the physics of it.
@OP you just want to make sure the perlite is damp all the time, and so are the cakes.
Edited by Mad Season (08/19/15 01:31 PM)
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theundying
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: Mad Season]
#22111996 - 08/19/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: @OP you just want to make sure the perlite is damp all the time, and so are the cakes.
Copy that. I'm gonna go thru the steps I posted and see if that helps. It combines what everyone has told me for the most part. I'll post pics later.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: Mad Season]
#22112033 - 08/19/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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hundreds make the same mistake. it the wording of them old links, short on info and ambiguous in nature. it you dont have an under pinning knowledge it easy to get it tangled together.
but the science is there and we cant change than just for our hobby.
ive seen hundreds say the same and tell others off for saying different when infact its their source led them astray.
how air and water and heat behave is very well understood and just by having a monotub or sgfc we cant re-write the books just to suit. the scientific laws still must be obeyed. if it seems science is wrong then you have to take the stance its our own logic at fault and were not quite seeing all the picture.
others can cling to the false info they hold dear but you cant fool all the people all the time.
essentially it dosent matter as the teks work even if the causation and undersanding is in the wrong place. but when people tell others they are wrong because of this info, when infact they are in no place to say a thing... its hard to bite your tongue.
sorry for being a dick. prob could have been more tactful in my approach.
no hard feelings 
and i will let OP have his thread back.
nothing to see here... move along.. just bobs daily half page rant
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JacobStorm
psychedelic cartel



Registered: 07/21/15
Posts: 1,499
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: Mad Season]
#22112077 - 08/19/15 01:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: But bring your tub into the shower for a bit to rehydrate the perlite is a good idea 
I literally just did this yesterday and my humidity is now constantly 98% I'd highly recommend this. I also mixed it around with the shower on. Took a while to drain however even with me poking holes through the bottom of the perlite with a skewer.
-------------------- Rogger Rabbits Mushroom growing videos Ethnobotanical garden forum Inocuole tea TEK azur said: If you like 6th grade results, then 6th grade projects are great.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22112091 - 08/19/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
theundying said: So, here is my plan.
1. Soak cakes in spring water for six hours. 2. Place SGFC in shower and let cold water from shower soak perlite for five mins. 3. Place lid on SGFC and let drain for 10 mins. 4. Place SGFC back in living room on soda cans and wait for the cakes. 5. Put cakes back in chamber. 6. In the morning, remove cakes and repeat steps 2-5. 7. Mist and fan. Mist and fan. Mist and fan. 8. Tomorrow evening, repeat steps 2-5., then again the next day.
After this point, I should be able to mist and fan like normal and all should be good to go.....I hope.
yeah re wet the perlite 2 times a day . do this for 2 or 3 days. then after that just check each morning by sticking your finger an inch into the perlite... if it feels wet your good if it feels dry then re wet again.
soon you will find a rhythm of how often you need to re-wet the perlite. we can tell you exact as your conditions in your room will be different to ours.
you will soon learn a pattern that you need to follow. like i said use your finger. and re wet as needed.
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theundying
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/15
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: JacobStorm]
#22112150 - 08/19/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
JacobStorm said:
Quote:
Mad Season said: But bring your tub into the shower for a bit to rehydrate the perlite is a good idea 
I literally just did this yesterday and my humidity is now constantly 98% I'd highly recommend this. I also mixed it around with the shower on. Took a while to drain however even with me poking holes through the bottom of the perlite with a skewer.
What about soap and such? Or did you just leave the lid on?
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JacobStorm
psychedelic cartel



Registered: 07/21/15
Posts: 1,499
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22112174 - 08/19/15 02:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
theundying said:
Quote:
JacobStorm said:
Quote:
Mad Season said: But bring your tub into the shower for a bit to rehydrate the perlite is a good idea 
I literally just did this yesterday and my humidity is now constantly 98% I'd highly recommend this. I also mixed it around with the shower on. Took a while to drain however even with me poking holes through the bottom of the perlite with a skewer.
What about soap and such? Or did you just leave the lid on?
No not with soap. I took the cakes out. Took off the lid. Ran cold water on the perlite while mixing it around in the tub to make sure it all got an even coating. Then put the sgfc onto a milk crate so as too raise off the bottom of the tub to help draining.
-------------------- Rogger Rabbits Mushroom growing videos Ethnobotanical garden forum Inocuole tea TEK azur said: If you like 6th grade results, then 6th grade projects are great.
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theundying
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: JacobStorm]
#22112326 - 08/19/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
JacobStorm said:
Quote:
theundying said:
Quote:
JacobStorm said:
Quote:
Mad Season said: But bring your tub into the shower for a bit to rehydrate the perlite is a good idea 
I literally just did this yesterday and my humidity is now constantly 98% I'd highly recommend this. I also mixed it around with the shower on. Took a while to drain however even with me poking holes through the bottom of the perlite with a skewer.
What about soap and such? Or did you just leave the lid on?
No not with soap. I took the cakes out. Took off the lid. Ran cold water on the perlite while mixing it around in the tub to make sure it all got an even coating. Then put the sgfc onto a milk crate so as too raise off the bottom of the tub to help draining.
Got it. I'll be doing the whole thing in just a few hours. Fingers crossed.
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theundying
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/15
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22116095 - 08/20/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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UPDATE: Well, after about a five hour dunk, I got pins. I ran the shower over my tub for five mins and let it drain for about 20 mins with the lid on. I tossed my pinning cakes in the tub and gave it a mist for good measure.
Woke up this morning and the sides of the tub were dry, but the perlite was still still damp below the surface. The cakes looked a bit dry as well. So I tossed my cakes on the lid and gave them a good misting while I ran my perlite under the shower again. I let it run for another five mins and let it drain. Tossed the cakes in and gave it a heavy misting before I left for work.
My concern is that things were still dry. The cakes did not have a glisten to them and the walls of the tub were dry even though the perlite was still damp. This weekend I'll have time to check them every hour and hydrate as needed, but hopefully six trips to the shower will have my tub going. Time will tell.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22116103 - 08/20/15 10:25 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sleep does that shit
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JacobStorm
psychedelic cartel



Registered: 07/21/15
Posts: 1,499
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22116120 - 08/20/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
theundying said: UPDATE: Well, after about a five hour dunk, I got pins. I ran the shower over my tub for five mins and let it drain for about 20 mins with the lid on. I tossed my pinning cakes in the tub and gave it a mist for good measure.
Woke up this morning and the sides of the tub were dry, but the perlite was still still damp below the surface. The cakes looked a bit dry as well. So I tossed my cakes on the lid and gave them a good misting while I ran my perlite under the shower again. I let it run for another five mins and let it drain. Tossed the cakes in and gave it a heavy misting before I left for work.
My concern is that things were still dry. The cakes did not have a glisten to them and the walls of the tub were dry even though the perlite was still damp. This weekend I'll have time to check them every hour and hydrate as needed, but hopefully six trips to the shower will have my tub going. Time will tell.
You should post a picture of new pins! I. Having the same problem with my SGFC. I think in my case I might have gotten too big or too coarse of perlite so I'm thinking it may be drying out faster then the less coarse or smaller perlite would normally. What size of perlite are you using? Maybe that's our issue huh?
-------------------- Rogger Rabbits Mushroom growing videos Ethnobotanical garden forum Inocuole tea TEK azur said: If you like 6th grade results, then 6th grade projects are great.
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theundying
Stranger
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Posts: 29
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: JacobStorm]
#22116181 - 08/20/15 10:42 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'll post pics of the pins this afternoon. I was happy to see them, but my wife did a "mushroom dance" and everything when she saw them (it was cute, really).
I did not know perlite came in different "sizes". Though, the organic perlite I got from Amazon seemed a bit smaller than the one I got from Lowes. Who knows. For now, I am just going to do four more showers and hope it retains moisture and mist and fan like crazy. Now that two cakes have pinned, I'm excited to move it along.
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