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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22110408 - 08/19/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Mist when they aren't glistening anymore. Mist until glistening, but without any pooling water. Mist the perlite at least once a day too. Having more fae in an open room will up the humidity a bunch! you don't have to dunk them. But bring your tub into the shower for a bit to rehydrate the perlite is a good idea
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: Mad Season]
#22110432 - 08/19/15 10:00 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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theundying
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: Mad Season]
#22110453 - 08/19/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: With a lack of fae, you'd have a much lower RH in a sgfc. But just saying you mist doesn't mean it gets hydrated properly. Lots of noobs mist the walls for some reason. He should be misting directly until they glisten. None of those cakes look glistening to me.
I took those photos in the morning, so I hadn't touched them in eight hours.
Like I said, I think I'll wait till they pin in the jars before I birth them next time
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22110469 - 08/19/15 10:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Do bulk man. You won't regret the switch
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theundying
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: Mad Season]
#22110480 - 08/19/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: But bring your tub into the shower for a bit to rehydrate the perlite is a good idea 
I can't even think of where I could put a tub that big in my shower without getting water/soap all over it. Maybe just in the bathroom?
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theundying
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: Mad Season]
#22110505 - 08/19/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Do bulk man. You won't regret the switch
Bleh, I know. Even my wife told me to do bulk instead of cakes (always listen to the wife unit, folks). I just wasn't able to find a good step-by-step guide like I found for the PF-Tek. The PF Tek done right tek found on here was an awesome and well written guide that was easy to follow. What n00b friendly guide is there for bulk?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22110522 - 08/19/15 10:15 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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inked4life
Fungi finesse


Registered: 06/28/15
Posts: 555
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: Mad Season]
#22110536 - 08/19/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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it might take a few days for your cakes to recover and turn back white or they could stay that way. i would dunk them as they are blue already, rehydrate them , dont roll again. rehydrate your perlite, throw the rh meter out. ive had issues like this with previous cakes, dunking will help serve 2 purposes, rehydrate ur cakes and usually after dunking it starts the recovery process for myceluim.
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inked4life
Fungi finesse


Registered: 06/28/15
Posts: 555
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: inked4life]
#22110549 - 08/19/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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each tek i think has its pros and cons, i do agree that there is alot of info on here that conflicts what ppl post on here. tagyo has alot of good info, maybe he could point u towards a good tek for bulk.
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theundying
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/15
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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: inked4life]
#22110577 - 08/19/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Will it hurt anything to dunk them again? Will it help, harm, or neither?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22110589 - 08/19/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's just extra work. It'd probably help. Adding moisture is always a good thing. I just am lazy, and mist when needed lol.
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theundying
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: Mad Season]
#22110658 - 08/19/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: It's just extra work. It'd probably help. Adding moisture is always a good thing. I just am lazy, and mist when needed lol.
Okay. So I'll dunk them for a day again when I get home and take a shower with my tub. After that, mist if they are not shiny and fan often, correct?
I also have extremely hard water. My wife made me switch to bottled spring water, so that may help too.
Edited by theundying (08/19/15 10:50 AM)
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22110674 - 08/19/15 10:49 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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,
Since it didn't flush yet I'm not sure if you should re-roll or not but in theory you could but don't do it just yet until some smart people jump in.
Also, when you pick up the cake does it feel like you never dunked it? If it doesn't then maybe a 6-12 hours would benefit more then a full 24? If the cake has water inside it that means it's just waiting for the right conditions to pin.
Like previously mentioned, pull it out of the closet, dunk it for 6-24 hours (Wherever you feel comfortable), wait on re-rolling it until someone confirms 'cause that micro-climate is gone and get ready to re-adjust your schedule with the new environment.
Where you were misting 6 times the added humidity might cut it down to 2-5 depending on how dry your outside RH is.
When vermiculite is dry it looks like sand, when it's wet it glistens like the tiny crystals they are. Keep that in mind. So when you start seeing your cakes look sandy, give them a mist until they look shiny.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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theundying
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: taGyo]
#22110714 - 08/19/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
taGyo said:
,
Since it didn't flush yet I'm not sure if you should re-roll or not but in theory you could but don't do it just yet until some smart people jump in.
Also, when you pick up the cake does it feel like you never dunked it? If it doesn't then maybe a 6-12 hours would benefit more then a full 24? If the cake has water inside it that means it's just waiting for the right conditions to pin.
Like previously mentioned, pull it out of the closet, dunk it for 6-24 hours (Wherever you feel comfortable), wait on re-rolling it until someone confirms 'cause that micro-climate is gone and get ready to re-adjust your schedule with the new environment.
Where you were misting 6 times the added humidity might cut it down to 2-5 depending on how dry your outside RH is.
When vermiculite is dry it looks like sand, when it's wet it glistens like the tiny crystals they are. Keep that in mind. So when you start seeing your cakes look sandy, give them a mist until they look shiny.
My cakes have weight, but I wouldnt say they feel heavy or anything. They also do not feel weightless. I'll dunk them for about six hours and go from there.
I have since moved them from my closet to my living room on some cans (as I posted earlier). There is about nine inches all around the tub with the exception of the bottom which is elevated by soda cans. It is near a window, but should not get any direct sunlight. The lamp is still running on a 12/12 cycle.
I do believed that I was doomed for difficulties from the start. These spores were going on six months old before I used them and they were in a "climate controlled" storage unit for four of those months. It was harm and humid in the storage unit, but never hot or cold. The PE's I had in there died and the other two took forever to consolidate. It takes almost ten days just for myc to start forming in the jars.
I may just buy another syringe and start the process over, though I have these five in the chamber and 8 more colonizing right now. Patience is the name of the game, I suppose.
Edited by theundying (08/19/15 11:04 AM)
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22110726 - 08/19/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Do they feel heavier then when you first dunked them?
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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theundying
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: taGyo]
#22110818 - 08/19/15 11:12 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
taGyo said: Do they feel heavier then when you first dunked them?
Only slightly I'd say.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22111035 - 08/19/15 11:38 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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personaly but i may be wrong i think your enviroment is very dry and the perlite is drying too fast.
and by the time the perlite has made the tub humid it has ran out of moisture and cant maintain it.
try rewetting the perlite 1 or 2 times a day for 2 days and then i bet the humidity will be better and then will level out and stay where you want it and just need a good misting of the perlite each morning to re dampen or you could fully re wet the perlite everyday.
in summer here when its real hot sometimes i have to do this with sgfc at the start of fruiting but after several re wettings the first day it seems to level out and attention in the morning is all that is required after that.
once a good cycle is going and the air is also giving some back as condensation you will be good.
you just have to kick start the water cycle, keep it going and then it sort of looks after itself by condensation running back to the perlite.
but first you need to get the humidity up and then keep the perlite wet long enough that the air cant hold no more and plenty is condensing back lout to re wet the perlite!!
in your case the water is quickly drained from the perlite and then there is no more to add to the air so no excess of water and no condensation and no rewetting of perlite... no water cycle.
kick start it maintain for a day and then it will go itself i assure you!! lots noobs have this problem dont beat yourself up.
i think your FAE is fine but your humidification of said air is not! dont need more fae - i think your key is the perlite and keeping this wet until the tub can look after itself. stick your finger in an inch if its dont feel wet its too dry.
just my 2c
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Edited by mustangbob3 (08/19/15 11:46 AM)
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theundying
Stranger
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: mustangbob3]
#22111242 - 08/19/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustangbob3 said: personaly but i may be wrong i think your enviroment is very dry and the perlite is drying too fast.
and by the time the perlite has made the tub humid it has ran out of moisture and cant maintain it.
try rewetting the perlite 1 or 2 times a day for 2 days and then i bet the humidity will be better and then will level out and stay where you want it and just need a good misting of the perlite each morning to re dampen or you could fully re wet the perlite everyday.
in summer here when its real hot sometimes i have to do this with sgfc at the start of fruiting but after several re wettings the first day it seems to level out and attention in the morning is all that is required after that.
once a good cycle is going and the air is also giving some back as condensation you will be good.
you just have to kick start the water cycle, keep it going and then it sort of looks after itself by condensation running back to the perlite.
but first you need to get the humidity up and then keep the perlite wet long enough that the air cant hold no more and plenty is condensing back lout to re wet the perlite!!
in your case the water is quickly drained from the perlite and then there is no more to add to the air so no excess of water and no condensation and no rewetting of perlite... no water cycle.
kick start it maintain for a day and then it will go itself i assure you!! lots noobs have this problem dont beat yourself up.
i think your FAE is fine but your humidification of said air is not! dont need more fae - i think your key is the perlite and keeping this wet until the tub can look after itself. stick your finger in an inch if its dont feel wet its too dry.
just my 2c
You know, I had this same thought. Everyone else's SGFCs look wet all the time. Mine is never wet. Maybe all my hard water is drying it out? By "re-wetting" should I take my cakes out, stick my tub in the shower and wet it with cold water from there twice a day until it stays humid?
I could even elevate the chamber in the tub so the water runs out. How wet is too wet?
I am in an area where 100+ degrees is not uncommon during the day and is very humid. I'll re-wet the perlite in the shower and dunk my cakes again for six hours. It's like I'm starting all over again...
Edited by theundying (08/19/15 12:28 PM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22111264 - 08/19/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Condensation forms on the inside walls when the temperature inside the SGFC is higher than outside the SGFC. A properly made SGFC shouldn't have enough of a temperature difference to cause condensation. If it does, then you are not likely getting good FAE. In other words, condensation is not a good sign of proper humidity, instead it's more of a sign of low FAE.
Pulled from how a sgfc works
Also why would more fae (bringing it to a more open room) increase humidity?
Quote:
A properly made SGFC uses natural air currents to create high relative humidity (RH) and constant fresh air exchange (FAE).
The fresh air flows in through the bottom holes and rises up through the damp perlite assisting in evaporation. This evaporation is where you get your humidity.
Because humid air rises, it flows up and out the other holes, thus allowing more fresh air in through the bottom. This is how you get constant FAE without sacrificing humidity.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: [First Grow] Blue Cakes - No Pins - 10 days [Re: theundying]
#22111392 - 08/19/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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just soak it in shower then leave excess to drip out for 10-15min. then put cakes back in.
do this twice aday for 2 days maybe three and i bet it will then self regulate
then re wetting every day or 2 as needed 
then you will find a balance when the cycle is actually happening correctly and your misting will replace alot of what is lost.
just keep that perlite wet
also like others have said i would prob redunk to help the cakes recover and to bring them back to field capacity.
then go at it again but keep the perlite wet like i said and i bet within 7 days you have pins popping.
they cakes will be dying to put out and soon as they get correct conditions will most likely fruit.
EDIT:
Quote:
Quote: Condensation forms on the inside walls when the temperature inside the SGFC is higher than outside the SGFC. A properly made SGFC shouldn't have enough of a temperature difference to cause condensation. If it does, then you are not likely getting good FAE. In other words, condensation is not a good sign of proper humidity, instead it's more of a sign of low FAE.
Pulled from how a sgfc works
Also why would more fae (bringing it to a more open room) increase humidity? Quote:
A properly made SGFC uses natural air currents to create high relative humidity (RH) and constant fresh air exchange (FAE).
The fresh air flows in through the bottom holes and rises up through the damp perlite assisting in evaporation. This evaporation is where you get your humidity.
Because humid air rises, it flows up and out the other holes, thus allowing more fresh air in through the bottom. This is how you get constant FAE without sacrificing humidity.
MAD i sort of disagree ime you get condensation in a sgfc as there is just about always a temp difference between inside and outside also you can get condensation for other reasons.
like...
if you keep adding h20 to air that is 100% or at max potential humidity ( like in our tubs, when they reach max potential humidity and the myc is still adding to the air by evapouration because of heat) the air drops out the extra as it is added and dosent need a temp difference only a hard surface to do it on.
and humid air rising what a joke.
like clouds they only hang at a certain height for the density!! thats why at diff altitudes you get diff cloud types!!
clouds only exist at certain altitudes...u ever been in a plane.
clouds form over water/sea the float in land then are pushed up by thermals at which point they drop water as rain to lose weight to lift!!
humidity is lost for air to rise, dont be a dumbass. its remedial science !!
heating a gas makes it less dense... less dense makes it float above gas that is more dense!! the heat makes it rise and the water content affects how high it rises. and density of air is affected by heat and coincidentaly density of air affect how much h20 it can hold. meaning less dense or hotter air is less humid. humid air as it gains heat gets less dense and holds less water. this water has to go somewhere... i will leave the rest to your imagination.
your scientific understanding is way way off!! dont believe everything you read
Your post simply is full of contradiction and your causation is totally wrong! sorry but it is. air rises as it is warm and a different density.lol not because its humid. humidity holds it down!! like pouring grenadine in orange juice
Edited by mustangbob3 (08/19/15 12:55 PM)
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