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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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trouble with ID on some LBMs
    #22105665 - 08/18/15 07:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Habitat: grassy area, lawn

Gills:
Brown. Attatched

Cap:
Conical/spherical. Brown with dark brown "stripe"

Spore print color: black (picture included)

These LBMs come up every season by my home, I'm certain they are Panaeolus of some sort, but have had a hell of a time pin-pointing an exact ID...









Dried samples


Spore print


-E. Borodin


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Invisiblerelic
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Registered: 10/14/14
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22105697 - 08/18/15 08:03 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

hard to tell from the provided pic, but that print looks to have quite a bit of brown in it?

ETA: make a line with a fresh sharpie marker next to it and compare.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: relic]
    #22105714 - 08/18/15 08:09 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)





I just picked these 10 minutes ago, they come up so frequently that at any time (in season) I can go in my back yard and find them.

At this point I don't even care if they are active, it's just driving me crazy hat I don't have a positive ID...

Every other plant and fungi in my area I have identified...

-E. Borodin


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OfflinePeteza34
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22105808 - 08/18/15 08:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Panaeolus foenisecii


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: Peteza34]
    #22105944 - 08/18/15 09:39 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

So I'm misreading the spore print for sure right?

I was certain they were foes, but then I thought the spore print looked black...

Have you seen foe spore prints look like that?

I already threw away the samples so I can't get another print with out going to get more .

I'm just going to call them foes and move on, I know there are pan subs here (Colorado) so I always keep my eye out, but since these come up in my back yard so frequently I figured I should take the time to ID them.

What should I Be looking for to distinguish foes from subs or pan. femicola?

-E. Borodin


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Offlinemushypanda
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22106143 - 08/18/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Aside from spore color , the cincs have a reddish twisty appearance on their stems ime..

That is a tough ID , it does look to be a Panaleous not a Panaeolina to me but I can't say for sure either.

http://www.shroomery.org/9654/Subbedhunter420s-Guide-to-Hunting-and-Identifying-Panaeolus-cinctulus


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There is something to be said for nodding out to a spectacle of colors. Plus that body high & euphoria...._Dark-Star
We are entirely defined by what we do and how we treat others._daytripper05


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OfflinePeteza34
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: mushypanda]
    #22106272 - 08/18/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah Pans can be tough to distinguish. Cinctulus is usually a little sturdier and usually has a reddish stem. I have seen Cinctulus with brown looking gills but usually charcoal gray to black. The spores are completely black, no color at all. I thiink I see a bit of a brown hue in the print but it isn't easy to tell. If you think it looks jet black in person then it is probably Panaeolus cintulus.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: Peteza34]
    #22106766 - 08/18/15 01:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

...this is a tough one, the spore print is just as inconclusive in person, I'm 99% sure it's black, but think I may see a light shade of brown as well.

I moved a cap very early while printing and it appeared more gray/black than Brown.

Could they be pan. Femicola?

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22109161 - 08/18/15 11:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm going to put the spores under a microscope, I got microscope pictures of Panaeolus spores from several species, and some information on how to distinguish spores.

I have to borrow the microscope from a friend, so this may take a while...

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleNothingsChanged
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22109407 - 08/19/15 01:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)



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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: NothingsChanged]
    #22109789 - 08/19/15 05:31 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That looks like what I have…

-E. Borodin


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Offlinedrum of rum
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: Peteza34]
    #22113440 - 08/19/15 06:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I agree


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Addiction is on the rise while government run drug rehabilitation centers and jail provide the illusion of an answer to the crisis for the sheeple while drug addicts remain stuck in a vicious cycle of drug addiction and jail just to provide more jobs and money for the 1%.

Its all about money nobody gives a fuck!- SOAD

Anything I may say here is not to be taken seriously.


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OfflineDeTwizzle
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: drum of rum]
    #22113535 - 08/19/15 06:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I think they could be cints for sure. I actual see the red in the stem and those prints are coming out dark. hard to tell without a scope or 60 of them to eat to really find out.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: DeTwizzle]
    #22115572 - 08/20/15 06:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)



I have two hand-fulls of dried samples, but I don't want to take any risks, I need a positive ID, I'm going to put the spores under a microscope today or tomorrow...

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22115584 - 08/20/15 07:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)



As the prints become lighter they are gray, not Brown...

I'm almost positive it's a black spore print...


On this picture I moved the caps early to be sure that I was not just seeing dark brown thickly layered on itself, the light prints are grey leading me to believe the prints are in fact black and not Brown...

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22115755 - 08/20/15 08:33 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Some fresh samples I just gathered 10 minutes ago, it is these samples that I'm going to collect the spores to put under the microscope from...



-E. Borodin


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22115780 - 08/20/15 08:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

if you have a microscope in hand, no need to wait, just do a crush mount of a gill, there will be plenty of spores floating around to look at.  and you can look for other features too while you're there


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #22120894 - 08/21/15 07:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RuralAnomaly said:
if you have a microscope in hand, no need to wait, just do a crush mount of a gill, there will be plenty of spores floating around to look at.  and you can look for other features too while you're there




My friend is bringing me his microscope, he should have dropped it off yesterday, I'm hoping I'll receive it today.

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22121376 - 08/21/15 09:07 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

thats cool

hopefully its an instrument and not a toy

its been my (limited) experience that working with fresh specimens is the best/easiest because the cystidia haven't collapsed through dehydration so they're easier to find n see.

sounds like you have a fairly close supply so once you get the scope, go find u a fresh one too and play around looking at both the somewhat dried one and the fresh.  see what u think

we'll look forward to the full report


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #22123464 - 08/21/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RuralAnomaly said:
thats cool

hopefully its an instrument and not a toy

its been my (limited) experience that working with fresh specimens is the best/easiest because the cystidia haven't collapsed through dehydration so they're easier to find n see.

sounds like you have a fairly close supply so once you get the scope, go find u a fresh one too and play around looking at both the somewhat dried one and the fresh.  see what u think

we'll look forward to the full report




Still did not get the microscope today, I'm pretty sure it's quality equipment, regardless there was a shortage of fresh samples today, there were a good deal of tiny ones close to the ground, but I leave those alone to ensure the fungi will return.

It must be their grow cycle, where's there's space between flushes, that's the way it seems anyway...

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: trouble with ID on some LBMs [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22125965 - 08/22/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Still no microscope, I'm just going to purchase one, what's a decent price range for a quality yet affordable microscope? I'm ordering off amazon so I can't examine the equipment before I purchase it...

-E. Borodin


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