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Offlineazramb
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: KetaminePeen]
    #25331669 - 07/17/18 01:55 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KetaminePeen said:
MDMA isn't super far off from LSD and MDMA is not a far cry from methamphetamine. It is methamphetamine with an almost-indole like benzodioxil at the benzene ring.



Just because two chemicals are structurally similar doesn't mean they are comparable in their properties. Chlorine is harmful for human consumption and contact when not very dilute. Sodium is caustic and must be handled with great care. The reaction of sodium in water creates an exothermic reaction. But if you conmbine these two chemicals you get tasty table salt (sodium chloride) which is safe for consumption and has no energetic reaction when combined with water.
Quote:

KetaminePeen said:
Okay yeah but in terms of subjective effects they can be compared as they are both stimulants that bind to serotonin receptors and alter the action potential network in your brain.

Meth lacks resemblance to any tryptamine but still causes (weak) geometry and visuals at higher doses because A) It releases serotonin.
and B) The phenylethylamine structure still binds weakly to serotonin receptors.



Likewise just because two chemicals affect the same receptor doesn't necessarily mean they have comparable effects. Maybe in some areas, a lot of drugs that affect the serotonin receptor are more stimulating, a lot that affect dopamine are sedating, a lot of chemicals that affect the GABA receptor reduce anxiety. But that doesn't necessarily mean the whole of the experience is at all comparable. The weak geometry you're stating is certainly not akin to any true psychedelic effects but most likely the onset of amphetamine psychosis.


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OfflineKetaminePeen
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: azramb]
    #25332160 - 07/17/18 06:19 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

You're trying to wave your dick in wind here but I own and read textbooks; self-teach synthetic organic chem.

You telling me that NaCl shit is retarded because we're not talking about Ionic bonds-
I'm not five so kindly please stick your egocentric high horse's cock into your ass

I'd respond to that by saying in this case MDMA and Methamphetamine have extremely similar effects. The addition of a closed methylene-oxygen ring bound at the benzene ring on the phenylethylamine serves MDMA by increasing weak agonist activity at postsynaptic serotonin receptors 5-HT1 and 5-HT2.
I'm not looking at it from a structural similarity standpoint i'm discussing the subjective effects of the substances.

If you think methamphetamine doesn't bind to 5-HT receptors albeit at a lower affinity than even MDMA; you're wrong mkay.

My only point was that a thumbprint of LSD is less dangerous to my mental and physical health than 1 whole gram of Methamphetamine.


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OfflineKetaminePeen
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: KetaminePeen]
    #25332166 - 07/17/18 06:21 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

IF you don't get visuals from MDMA or Meth after high doses it's most likely because your tolerance is too high


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Offlineazramb
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: KetaminePeen] * 1
    #25332536 - 07/17/18 09:38 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KetaminePeen said:
If you think methamphetamine doesn't bind to 5-HT receptors albeit at a lower affinity than even MDMA; you're wrong mkay.



Never said it didn't. I actually agreed that it did as a part of my argument.
Quote:

KetaminePeen said:
I'd respond to that by saying in this case MDMA and Methamphetamine have extremely similar effects. The addition of a closed methylene-oxygen ring bound at the benzene ring on the phenylethylamine serves MDMA by increasing weak agonist activity at postsynaptic serotonin receptors 5-HT1 and 5-HT2.
I'm not looking at it from a structural similarity standpoint i'm discussing the subjective effects of the substances.




You keep mentioning the structural similarity so it just kind of seems like that's part of your argument. I posted the sodium chloride part of my post directly in response to you saying meth and mdma are structurally similar. And I posted the part about chemicals that affect the same receptors directly in response to you talking about visuals from meth (the subjective effects). I was commenting on each separately not saying whether you were or weren't talking about subjective effects of substances that both affect serotonin.

Quote:

KetaminePeen said:
IF you don't get visuals from MDMA or Meth after high doses it's most likely because your tolerance is too high



Sure some visuals from MDMA is fairly common. It's a mild psychedelic. Mostly an empathogen but also a mild psychedelic. Meth is most certainly not a psychedelic and I've just never heard of visuals on amphetamines of any kind unless the person was slipping (or fully) into amphetamine psychosis. Maybe I'm wrong, I've never done meth. It's just not something I've ever heard of before.


Quote:

KetaminePeen said:
You telling me that NaCl shit is retarded because we're not talking about Ionic bonds-
I'm not five so kindly please stick your egocentric high horse's cock into your ass



I'm not sure why you're getting so offended. I was simply stating my opinion. You thinking I'm calling you a child because I brought up sodium chloride is just your own assumptions and insecurities. That wasn't my intent at all and I never meant to offend you. That being said I still think that part of my argument holds weight. Ionic bonds or otherwise, when two chemicals or elements are combined to form a new compound it can have drastically different properties from its parent compounds. Not always but it can.

Quote:

KetaminePeen said:
My only point was that a thumbprint of LSD is less dangerous to my mental and physical health than 1 whole gram of Methamphetamine.



I definitely agree with this part of your argument.


Edited by azramb (07/17/18 09:47 PM)


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OfflineKetaminePeen
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: azramb]
    #25332589 - 07/17/18 10:09 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

sorry for getting aggro-


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Offlineazramb
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: KetaminePeen]
    #25332599 - 07/17/18 10:13 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

All good man. Cheers!


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OfflineKetaminePeen
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: azramb]
    #25332700 - 07/17/18 11:27 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Also visuals tend to be common with meth use. Usually closed eye geometry. Patterns recognition enchancement. sometimes people or things in bushes and shit.

Meth is totally psychedelic it's just that it's got a predominantly clearheaded quality to it's effects and traditionally it's classified as a stimulant while LSD is classified as a stimulant dopamine releaser as well and causes similar psychosis even.
A passing friend I met one day told me told me "LSD: THAT CHRISTIAN TWEAK" and it rings sort of true to me haha;

https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Methamphetamine#Subjective_effects
That article covers it pretty much. I've been a heavy meth user for quite a time and known many and hallucinations especially similar ones to mdma such as color shifting; voices; hypnotic hallucinations when you try and sleep; and sleep paralysis.

If you smoke a lot of meth or inject it it seems like it visuals are much more common toward the end of the dopamine-rushy part of the experience. Meth starts more stimmy and as the binding to 5-HT receptors is usually the last hold out before metabolizing it.


I've gotten mostly this interesting ever changing strange repeating shapes slowly moving across a different colored or textured background.

It's about as rare for some people to get visuals on LSD as on Meth i'd say.

LSD does some pretty cool shit for me visually even though I take it ~once a week.


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OfflineKetaminePeen
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: KetaminePeen]
    #25332704 - 07/17/18 11:29 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Here's a list of cognitive effects.
 

Analysis enhancement
    Compulsive redosing
    Ego inflation
    Cognitive euphoria
    Empathy, affection and sociability enhancement
  Focus enhancement - This component is most effective at low to moderate dosages as anything higher will usually impair concentration.
    Immersion enhancement
    Increased libido
    Increased music appreciation
    Memory enhancement
    Motivation enhancement
    Thought acceleration
    Thought organization
    Time compression - This can be described as the experience of time speeding up and passing much quicker than it usually would when sober.
    Wakefulness

The visual effects of methamphetamine are usually less consistent and are only mildly noticeable at higher dosages. They are somewhat comparable to the visuals produced by deliriants and are more frequent in darker areas. Scenarios consisting of severe sleep deprivation caused by wakefulness can lead to more intense visual effects and even hallucinations.
Suppressions

    Double vision

Distortions

    Visual drifting - This effect is usually subtle or barely noticeable and only occurs at higher dosages or when combined with cannabis. It is most prominent when smoked or taken intravenously and is usually delirious in nature. Commonly this, high dosages or prolonged use can cause level 1-2 visual drifting.
    Brightness alteration

Hallucinatory states

Geometry

    Transformations - This effect occurs very rarely, and typically only when the user has taken high doses, is coming down, or has been awake for unusually long periods. They are usually very mild when they do happen to occur.


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OfflineBlabble40
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: KetaminePeen]
    #25332943 - 07/18/18 03:32 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I have thought about it and decided it would depend on what I'd have to do the next few days seeing as how I'd be stoned for a while. And it would be worrisome. I would anticipate that feeling of regret or panic that could happen during onset; etc. So maybe. I'd either end up dead or in a hospital for a couple or a few weeks to month or so, which would suck just as much but comes with the territory, I guess, so set and setting is important and you might need a sitter. Pretty sure it'd be somewhat worth it, though... You'd be able to "see" stuff you couldn't otherwise. The part about it changing you and you never being the same is the riskiest part, if you like yourself enough as is, people might find you more annoying after if you talk too much or something now. So they'll worry about you and care for your health, you just can't win either way. Sounds weird in any situation.

On the other hand I've been interested in the topic of "meth" or "methyl groups (CH3)" for a while now and how they relate to psychedelics, which have methyl groups on them (DMT is dimethyltryptamine), and seeing as how methamphetamine exists, and MDMA and peyote are related to it, the subject seemed remotely interesting. I'll make this quick - and I hope I don't ever really have to try meth myself to see what it's like, as if it would broaden the mind and make me smarter.

LSD is also known as METH-LAD because of the methyl group (or 1 carbon) on the 6 nitrogen atom. Then there's AL-LAD, ETH-LAD, and PRO-LAD for the corresponding alkylated norlysergic acid diethylamide analogues. They're supposed to be way different even though they're "structurally similar" to LSD.

That's why they say acid has a "stimulant" feel to it, even though it sedates you while it's kicking in. I had always wondered why people sought meth out despite the before/after pics showing the damage, and more people than you may initially suspect smoke meth or "used to", or are looking for it. They say "it's fast".

I'm guessing the difference is acid is actually fairly DMT like and can put you in contact with "higher dimensional mathematicians who designed the algorithms the universe runs on and are way smarter than any human" - whether that makes acid more valuable than meth is the question, I'm sure circumstances might dictate what is necessary. Meth will probably be boring compared to any psychedelic. For health reasons alone if there were any situation that called for meth use, I wonder if some dose of acid wouldn't be better but more effective.

Also, acid can make you black out and show you stuff, at high enough doses. Johnathan Ott in Pharmacotheon said methamphetamine is actually more effective than caffeine, and can have some commercial uses, not just as a drug to get a quick fix on the streets if you're a homeless bum. I wouldn't be surprised that it causes hallucinations, although the connection between "meth" and psychedelics makes some sense. N,N-DMT is just serotonin that's more non-polar because the two methyl groups on the tryptamine carbon chain and without the oxygen on the 5 carbon.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: Blabble40]
    #25333038 - 07/18/18 06:01 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I would do a thumbprint if:

I didnt have to work for like a whole month, or at least 2 weeks.
Someome experienced with LSD that i trusted gave me the dose.
Did it in a safe place where i wouldnt accidently harm myself.


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Invisiblemoonzo
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #25333141 - 07/18/18 07:35 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I would do a thumbprint if:

I didnt have to work for like a whole month, or at least 2 weeks.
Someome experienced with LSD that i trusted gave me the dose.
Did it in a safe place where i wouldnt accidently harm myself.




i would have been the same way as you Logical,
but after 1500ug, i see absolutely no purpose in going any higher, or anywhere near that dose ever again. :smile:


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: moonzo]
    #25333657 - 07/18/18 01:15 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I bet it would take much less than a thumbprint to blackout and have no recollection of it


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OfflineBlabble40
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #25333696 - 07/18/18 01:37 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

If you black out on acid you usually get visions or "visuals" as it's showing you stuff, and it seems easier to remember than the DMT flash. But acid is like DMT more or less spread out over 12-40 hours.


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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: Blabble40]
    #25333958 - 07/18/18 03:52 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

nope, a thumbprint isn't on the menu.  a ten strip of medium-strength acid is more than plenty these days.  i prefer around 300-500ug if i want to go way out and that's enough at this point.

in my youth i probably would have, but i did hundreds of things i'd not do now.


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OfflineBlabble40
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: relic]
    #25334039 - 07/18/18 04:49 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

You actually white out on acid and it can be hard to tell if you’re awake or in some sleep like state, they say LSD can cause OOBEs, which I actually have never had now that I recall. But it’s gotten to the point where I couldn’t tell if it was a dream or not (false awakening type), and I didn’t remember turning the TV on and playing some anime, but I recognized the notion it could have been an illusion at least. And so we each put specific energy out there that’s predetermined to unify it all into one - either again or for the first time all over. It would be cooler if you can probably tune in and out of the divine frequencies moving through a groove of heavenly celestial acceleration. Time could also stand still. It would be like getting memory flashed in Men in Black or dying and just waking up as if from a dream but not realizing it until after a certain point (you need acid as a medicine to “wake up” properly?), sounds like hippie bullshit but that’s just the cosmic joke - which you can’t say or remember because if you do you’ll die, they’ll pay any amount of money if it’s what gets them off.


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OfflineKetaminePeen
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: Blabble40]
    #25334363 - 07/18/18 07:58 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

@Blabble40

The thing about your above post I really disagree with is that you can somehow understand what meth is like by reading experiences because you damn well can not.

Just like you could never describe LSD to someone in any meaningful way.

It's an experience. The chief difference in though processes on meth tend more towards the psychedelic side but it's a unique effect. Meth makes information easier to understand and more accurate to understand if your mind functions logically and rationally.

If you're not comfortable with who you are you might get anxiety from meth. Being on meth all the time requires maintaining your health manually.

Meth is nothing like DMT. Imagine acid without visuals and more clarity. At high doses meth produces a sort of stupifying state similar to 2c-b or DOC. It's nothing like DMT.


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OfflineKetaminePeen
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: Blabble40]
    #25334397 - 07/18/18 08:16 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Also man you know as little as whats going on as anyone else.

I believe reality is cyclical but not in the way you're describing.

Black holes are either singularities or spheres which means if they spontaneously explode; and are all made of the same superdense material;
the spontanous (or collision) explosion of a black hole of a specific mass;
IE The big bang
would likely explode and cool into matter in a similar way everytime guided by only 4 fundamental  forces of nature;

gravity, electromagnetism, and the strong and weak nuclear forces.

so if you go far enough in space and the universe is infinite and time is eternal in both directions you'd see we've had this exact conversation before somewhere else in time right now probably infinitely and somewhere else in space everywhere infinitely.

I believe the universe is one thing, divided into infinitely many tiny strings and energy is just the strings wobbling; matter is just 2 energy wavelengths that are resonating to create a field


This is all stuff we know because we have technology that wouldn't work were it not (semiconducters, transistors, lasers, mris, electron microscopes, oscilloscopes


and we're all just flesh robots that are because we wouldn't exist were it not for at least something existing.

This reality is not a simulation or a mirage or an illusion: this is it. There was no divine creator. No mathematician who inspired this; it inspired mathematicians.


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OfflineKetaminePeen
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: KetaminePeen]
    #25334399 - 07/18/18 08:17 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineKetaminePeen
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: KetaminePeen]
    #25334400 - 07/18/18 08:17 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineMushMaggot
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Re: If you were offered a thumb print would you take it? [Re: KetaminePeen]
    #25334586 - 07/18/18 09:57 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

your meth talk :derail: go take it else where it's a psychedelic forum! no one cares of your methamphetamine obsession
Make your own thread if you want to compare meth being a psychedelic lol


Any way I couldn't handle that much lsd 300 mics is more than enough haha


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