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dirttoldfart
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Fruiting bag in vitro
#22100565 - 08/16/15 09:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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So I have this grow bag
I inoculated 6 days ago, and i can see mycelium growing. My question is, what do I need to do in order to fruit in vitro? When it's fully colonized do I mix the rye berries with the manure? Do I need to somehow dunk it, or open the bag and mist?
Here's a picture of the colonization progress in my bag:
Edited by dirttoldfart (08/19/15 09:17 AM)
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PirateSwazey


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You should break it up and mix it with a brick of coco coir, 5 quarts of water and 2 quarts of vermiculite inside of a 66 quart 'monotub'.
These links should help:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8231041/fpart/1/vc/1
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dirttoldfart
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I'm honestly just looking to fruit it in the bag, if possible. I've seen some people do it with brf jars so I was thinking that it would probably work with this as well.
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PirateSwazey


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You'll get about 40x more mushrooms if you spawn it, but you can fruit it inside the bag...
Just cut slits in the top when its finished colonizing and keep it misted in there.
Total waste IMO though!
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blindingleaf
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Quote:
PirateSwazey said: You'll get about 40x more mushrooms if you spawn it, but you can fruit it inside the bag...
Just cut slits in the top when its finished colonizing and keep it misted in there.
Total waste IMO though! 
 if pirate posted more u'd all learn a lot more. but i guess if he was here more, he'd grow a lot less 
balance, u know. he's da man. listen to his wise words when u encounter them
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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PirateSwazey


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blindingleaf
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^^^humility is the first sign of a great gower
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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dirttoldfart
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Hmm, it sounds like this is the way to go then. Would this be good to use as a substrate for a monotub? Also, would I mix in the manure that's already in the top half of my grow bag or what I not want to include it?
http://out-grow.com/mushroom-growing-substrates-c-4/5050-horse-manure-and-straw-mix-mushroom-substrate-p-68.html
Thanks a lot for your help
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
dirttoldfart said: Hmm, it sounds like this is the way to go then. Would this be good to use as a substrate for a monotub? Also, would I mix in the manure that's already in the top half of my grow bag or what I not want to include it?
http://out-grow.com/mushroom-growing-substrates-c-4/5050-horse-manure-and-straw-mix-mushroom-substrate-p-68.html
Thanks a lot for your help
There's a lot of risk to a mono tub. What you can do instead is wait for your bag to colonize more of your grains and then you break up the grains and massage and mix them really well into the other substrate in your bag. Just massage the bag until it's really thoroughly mixed all up. It will look completely uncolonized at that point, but don't worry because colonization will be really fast after you break it up and mix it all up.
Then, when it FULLY recolonizes, just cut maybe 5 or 6 2-3 inch slits in the bag to give it more air and be sure to mist once or twice lightly a day.
You'll probably get better and bigger results if you cut the top of the bag off completely to about an inch or two above the top of your substrate after it re-colonizes and put it in a SGFC (lots of teks on this) and mist it once or twice a day. After your first harvest, fill the bag with water and let it soak up overnight then pour out the water in the morning.
A monotub is no sure thing, I guarantee you. The risk of contamination goes WAY UP when you do it for the first time. Your chances of having a successful grow are much greater keeping it in the bag ... contam risk is very low. Going to a mono tub you may get nothing at all especially since you have fully sterilized horse manure in that bag which has a tendency to contaminate because it was sterilized and not pasteurized. Sterilized is fine in the bag but when you take it out, the risk goes up. I think its possible the people advising a mono tub didn't check your link to see what kind of bag you bought and think it's al just grain, which it isn't.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (08/16/15 10:53 PM)
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blindingleaf
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Re: Fruiting bag in vitro [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22100850 - 08/16/15 10:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
A monotub is no sure thing, I guarantee you. The risk of contamination goes WAY UP when you do it for the first time.
although i agree with ur premise, practice makes perfect. as an aside, yea, sterilized, UNCOLONIZED manure is a risk in open air. sterilized, COLONIZED manure though, is no different than colonized grain spawn.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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dirttoldfart
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Re: Fruiting bag in vitro [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22100887 - 08/16/15 10:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Maybe a monotub will be a future project then, I don't need to grow a huge amount of mushrooms anyway. Thanks for the advice, I'll post updates as things move along.
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blindingleaf
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if u don't need a lot, then yea, bulk ain't the name of that game.
but bulk growing is here to stay, sorry folks
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
blindingleaf said: if u don't need a lot, then yea, bulk ain't the name of that game.
but bulk growing is here to stay, sorry folks 
Nothing wrong with bulk growing and it's hear to stay for a lot of people that want to grow big crops of mushrooms. I think there are some people, though, especially just starting out, that want the highest possible chance of having at least some success, maybe not hundreds and hundreds of mushrooms, but a few dozen? Invitro bags have a pretty high rate of success, especially if you put them in a SGFC and I'd bet that the number of people that try for a full blown mono tub grow on their very first effort that fail for one of many reasons (contams, don't get the humidity/FAE dialed in right, etc) is fairly high and then many get nothing out of the grow, lose a couple of months in the process and have to start over.
If he was to have at least a somewhat successful grow, he could also harvest some fairly clean pins, try agar and have a self sustaining system going right from the get go. I think what really makes this hobby fun is when you get some good agar plates going and/or some clean LC and you start doing the whole process without the risk of vendor MS syringes. Learning how to do that is definitely the key to the whole thing. Whether you go from there to bulk grows or other methods like PF Tek, Monotubs, Mudabottles, V-Tek, etc. depends on how much you want to grow and how important it is to have a stealthy (or not) set up. Muda Bottles are, for me, perfect because they're practically contamination bullet proof, you can grow small amounts and test a lot of cultures simultaneously in a really small space. If I were to grow a couple of monotubs I'd end up throwing out most of the harvest as they just produce so many fruits.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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blindingleaf
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Re: Fruiting bag in vitro [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22101539 - 08/17/15 05:33 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
I think what really makes this hobby fun is when you get some good agar plates going and/or some clean LC and you start doing the whole process without the risk of vendor MS syringes. Learning how to do that is definitely the key to the whole thing. Whether you go from there to bulk grows or other methods like PF Tek, Monotubs, Mudabottles, V-Tek, etc. depends on how much you want to grow and how important it is to have a stealthy (or not) set up.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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spacechildo
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am I the only one who thinks the bag already looks fucked?
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Ajahn Don
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This is the way grown people discuss things. There's a lot of gold in this thread already. Good stuff.
-------------------- "He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."
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dirttoldfart
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What makes you say that? To me it looks just like a lot of the other poctures of colonizing bags i could find
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
dirttoldfart said: What makes you say that? To me it looks just like a lot of the other poctures of colonizing bags i could find
Looks fine to me. Some may not realize that bag has grains on the bottom and a dung substrate on top that hasn't been mixed up yet.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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spacechildo
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Quote:
dirttoldfart said: What makes you say that? To me it looks just like a lot of the other poctures of colonizing bags i could find
the myc looks pretty bacterial to me, maybe even a bit mold in there. its white but it aint alright.
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dirttoldfart
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Now I'm worried. Where are you seeing it? I can't see anything in there besides mycelium and grains.
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spacechildo
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its the white myc itself. the texture is off. classic bacteria IMO, once you see healthy myc you can tell there's a big difference in apperance, it has nothing to do with whether there is some manure not pictured somewhere in the bag..
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KauaiOrca
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I've grown a lot of grain bags and that growth looks fine to me. I wouldn't even consider tossing it. Might be the glare off the reflection of the bag creating some optical distortion?
Don't worry too much about it ... let it keep growing. Do you have a pressure cooker? If so, you can easily test whether or not your spore solution was clean or not.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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dirttoldfart
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Re: Fruiting bag in vitro [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22101978 - 08/17/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Nope, no pressure cooker. That's the reason I bought this bag instead of just continuing to try to do everything through steam sterilization
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
dirttoldfart said: Nope, no pressure cooker. That's the reason I bought this bag instead of just continuing to try to do everything through steam sterilization
Get yourself a cheap pressure cooker ... used one maybe at a garage sale or goodwill ... it opens up a ton of much better possibilities. Will pay for itself very quickly. Your costs go way, way down when you get a pressure cooker.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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spacechildo
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Quote:
dirttoldfart said: Nope, no pressure cooker. That's the reason I bought this bag instead of just continuing to try to do everything through steam sterilization
pre-made bags like that fails so many times dude, I see it almost daily here. also the poke hole in bag and hurry up and tape the hole TEK is really old, there's so many better ways to do it.
If you wanna do grains you should buy a PC, otherwise just make cakes and use them as spawn.
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dirttoldfart
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This bag actually has a self-healing injection port. I guess I was just a little paranoid about contams from my failed attempt at BRF cakes, so I put tape over the injection port after I inoculated.
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
dirttoldfart said: This bag actually has a self-healing injection port. I guess I was just a little paranoid about contams from my failed attempt at BRF cakes, so I put tape over the injection port after I inoculated.
Inoculating grain bags with a vendor spore syringe definitely has a lot of risks because the growth from a multi spore syringe is so slow that it gives other contaminants that might get in there (often in the syringe itself) a lot of time to get a foothold and take over. One of the most important lessons I learned is SPEED. To give the Mycelium as much of a head start on possible contaminants as you possibly can. Inoculating with a strong healthy and clean LC or LI will colonize the grain in a week as opposed to 4-8 weeks (or more) with multi spore syringe. This allows the mycelium to win the race for resources as opposed to giving contaminants a head start.
A pressure cooker gives you a pathway to get a really clean inoculant and then to get the upper hand on speed. It is also then really cheap to prepare grain bags or jars. I just bought a 50 lb bag of grass seed for $23 which is enough for years of growing at the pace I do it.
Do you have any more spore solution in your syringe or did you use it all up?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (08/17/15 10:16 AM)
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spacechildo
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for the best chance of success I would re-try the PF-tek. You already got all you need for it, jars,brf,verm,and a pot, just follow www.mushroomvideos.com and do exactly like he does, if they grow mold on you post a pic and maybe the syringe is to blame! not your fault if the syringes are dirty!
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dirttoldfart
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Re: Fruiting bag in vitro [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22102221 - 08/17/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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There's still about 10 mL left in the syringe, out of 20
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PirateSwazey


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I'd just like to add to this thread that there are some misconceptions about bulk spawning going on here.. A coir sub is no more prone to contamination than a PF tek, 'mudabottle', or straight cased grains. It all boils down to how you inoculated the spawn -- if you used a syringe it is going to have the same chance of failure no matter how you choose to fruit!
When I started growing mushrooms years ago I began by using bird seed and coir subs; it wasn't until sometime last year I made my first cakes... I honestly felt like the cakes were more difficult to take care of than a bulk tub that takes care of itself! As for casing grains - that requires properly pasteurizing, which is also more difficult than tossing boiling water into a bucket.
A bulk substrate is going to make about 4-8 ounces of mushrooms, which may be more than a lot of people need... but hey, you can always save them for later, or give some free ounces to your friends so they can share with their friends. Be creative and make some chocolates or something - those will last in the freezer for a long time. If you don't need a lot then that one flush will last you a really long time, and that means less frequency of ordering syringes, grain bags, or whatever.
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
dirttoldfart said: There's still about 10 mL left in the syringe, out of 20
If you want to have a lot more fun with this hobby, go get yourself a cheap pressure cooker and consider this very easy and simple tek. You can use it to grow indefinitely and as a springboard to bigger and better growing teks as you learn more. This Tek works equally well with BRF/Verm or Grass Seed, which I prefer a lot more. It can be used to create a Grain Liquid Culture too which will eliminate your need to buy other spore syringes. With 10 ML's you could easily start 5 jars growing and they'll be fruiting way before that bag does.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21390984
This Tek + SGFC and you're going to get good results. There are other GREAT teks too just showing this one because I found it incredibly easy to follow and it worked perfectly for me.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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spacechildo
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Quote:
PirateSwazey said: I'd just like to add to this thread that there are some misconceptions about bulk spawning going on here.. A coir sub is no more prone to contamination than a PF tek, 'mudabottle', or straight cased grains. It all boils down to how you inoculated the spawn -- if you used a syringe it is going to have the same chance of failure no matter how you choose to fruit!

completely agree! that is if you make everything yourself, if OP is gonna buy another bag I'd say he has better chances doing it himself but since he dont have a PC he should just do cakes IMO.
clean spawn is all that matters, and it sure matters a lot!
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
spacechildo said:
clean spawn is all that matters, and it sure matters a lot!
That is for SURE!!!!
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (08/17/15 10:45 AM)
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spacechildo
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but it will always be easier to tell yourself it was the bucket tek'd coir
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PirateSwazey


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I think it's fine to order a grain bag... hell, a lot of commercial mushroom farms sub out their entire spawn production. The problem with pre made bags is what people put into them and how they do it. Personally I have made enough grain bags that I would feel comfortable selling them to people on the internet knowing they would be fine to use even months after I made them but it's just not what I want to do.
Point being... again... clean inoculant!
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blindingleaf
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Quote:
Personally I have made enough grain bags that I would feel comfortable selling them to people on the internet
^^^i'll beat his price by half!!
we owned by the same company, yo
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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PirateSwazey


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Dude don't shoot us in the foot!
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