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Hanz
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Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How?
#22098137 - 08/16/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hello to all,
First, I see that a lot has been said already on extraction methods of psilocybin. I've tried to read as much of it as I can. But after a while you reach the point of tek-fatigue, and you just have to start doing things. I've also read much of the "similar threads" page I got when posting this. It's all related, but not exactly what I was looking for. I'll describe in detail what I did below, but start with the short version:
My goal: I want to make a concentrated liquid extract, a psilocybin solution, that I can take instead of having to eat shrooms, or brew tea.
What I did: 96% ethanol extraction on 20 grams of Equadorian cubes, using two washes of 200ml each.
My question: How do I prevent crystals from forming in the solution?
I'm sorry if this has already been discussed in detail elsewhere. Please point me to it. Most of what I found was of people that actually want the crystals to form. I don't want that. I want a liquid, and I'm afraid the crystals make it harder to accurately dose. I want all of the good stuff to remain as a liquid in the solution. That way, I can measure precisely how much of the liquid I take, and be sure that it corresponds to a certain amount of dried cubes. Also, it makes it possible to accurately reproduce the experience. This is important to me.
I'm now evaporating the ethanol from the extract, but the crystals start to form when there is still too much ethanol present. With this much ethanol my trips will start with one or two really strong drinks. I would like to avoid that. What can I do?
Is my question clear? 
I'll now describe the extraction process in more detail, just for the record. Only read this if you're interested in what I did exactly.
======== extraction log:
Two flushes from a simple growkit were dried in a dehydrator using warm (not hot) air. I think between 30 and 40 Celsius. This yielded 20 grams of dried cubes. These were put in a coffee grinder (never used for coffee) until the granularity was 0-1mm. Some of it was powder, but most of it wasn't. This was put into an airtight jar with 200ml of 96% consumable alcohol (it's not called Everclear in Europe, it's called Navimer, exactly the same stuff though). This slush was swirled every 30 minutes for 24 hours (except when I was asleep).
The next day, the slush was filtered through dust masks, and about 150ml of cloudy liquid was the result. The missing 50ml I could not squeeze out of the remaining residue or the filters. Too bad. I used too many filters I think. A second wash was prepared with the residue, and again left overnight, swirling whenever I got the chance.
I left the cloudy liquid to sit overnight, and most of the dust settled on the bottom. I carefully sucked the liquid out with a clean syringe, and left some dirt behind. Now I had about 145ml of very clear liquid. I was happy.
While the second wash was in the jar, I started evaporating the ethanol from the 145ml liquid with a small fan. When, after 6 hours, it was down to around 70ml it started to look milky. At 60ml I stopped, since crystals were visibly forming on the surface.
After another 24 hours I filtered the second wash, and applied the same procedure to it. The resulting clear liquid was added to the 60ml milky stuff. I now had about 250ml of somewhat clearer liquid, although small crystal could be seen swimming in it. I figured a third wash was not needed, but put the shroom slush residue into the freezer, just in case.
The liquid is evaporating as we speak, it is now down to about 150ml. It's slowly starting to turn milky...
========
Thanx if you have come this far ,... any and all input is much appreciated.
I hope to be able to test the extract soon. I'll let you know how it was!
Love, Hanz.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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DensePlacebo
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22098166 - 08/16/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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When I did it with everclear just like you did it same process I just washed the crystals back into the liquid untill it evaporates to the concentration you want then I put it into little vials to stop evap and keep it in single or double dose form. Just do the math and find your concentration. As far as I'm aware you want crystals to form bit then you wash them back into the alcohol untill your desired concentration then put it in airtight container to stop evap.
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tryptkaloids
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22098198 - 08/16/15 10:16 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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just do a simple tincture with 100 proof(50%) alcohol of choice. an ounce to a fifth would be a recreational dose per shot. just grind fungi and let sit in fifth shaking it every once in awhile. in a couple weeks you'll have a tincture you can pass around. or try this double extraction ask around for different soak times so the heat doesn't break any of the goodies down
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: DensePlacebo]
#22098215 - 08/16/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DensePlacebo said: When I did it with everclear just like you did it same process I just washed the crystals back into the liquid untill it evaporates to the concentration you want then I put it into little vials to stop evap and keep it in single or double dose form. Just do the math and find your concentration. As far as I'm aware you want crystals to form bit then you wash them back into the alcohol untill your desired concentration then put it in airtight container to stop evap.
Thanx, that was my plan too. But when you say you washed the crystals back into the liquid, what exactly do you mean? Do you stir the liquid, like with a spoon? Do the crystals then disappear again? I think I tried that yesterday, and it didn't work very well. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. What exactly did you do?
Btw, will post some pics soon, just for fun.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22098231 - 08/16/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Here are some pics...
This is the slush, doing the first wash:

This is the extraction turning milky after 6 hours of evap:

Some crystals floating on the surface:
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: tryptkaloids]
#22098278 - 08/16/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
tryptkaloids said: just do a simple tincture with 100 proof(50%) alcohol of choice. an ounce to a fifth would be a recreational dose per shot. just grind fungi and let sit in fifth shaking it every once in awhile. in a couple weeks you'll have a tincture you can pass around. or try this double extraction ask around for different soak times so the heat doesn't break any of the goodies down
Yes, thanx for the link, I'll read up on that.
On another note: the phrase "an ounce to a fifth" made me think of that scene in Pulp Fiction with Le BigMac, you know, about continental Europe having the metric system. We have no idea what a quarter pounder is .. let alone ounces, fifths, pints, or gallons. ... anyway, don't worry, I'll do the conversion math.
Love Hanz.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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tryptkaloids
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22098319 - 08/16/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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28 grams to about 25 fluid ounces. sorry about that. I hate america. why can't we be on par with the rest of the world
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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qweqaz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: tryptkaloids]
#22098346 - 08/16/15 11:07 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Willy Myco 
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22098355 - 08/16/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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from all the teks ive read, they dont even mention getting crystals. Confusing.
I would say those "crystals" u have on the surfaace are really sugars from the mushrooms.
ive done ethanol extracts on mycelium before and ive gotten similar salts on the surface.
Id suggest filtering the liquid with a coffee filter for example, keep the sugars/actives then drink the liquid, see what happens.
-------------------- "What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth 🌎🌍🌏
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AkashicExplorer
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#22098409 - 08/16/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Report plz
--------------------
The 87 gram MushZilla BEAST
And it just obliterated the uttermost crap out from me. Love, Bliss, Laughter and Enlightenment!
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: qweqaz]
#22098512 - 08/16/15 11:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qweqaz said: Willy Myco 
Yes, I love Willy Myco. This video was my starting point for the whole operation.
Funny he doesn't mention crystals forming half way the procedure, and doesn't seem to worry about it. And perhaps I shouldn't either...
In the vid he says he evaps down to 1ml for 1 gram of dried shrooms. That is the concentration I want! That would allow me to dose with the ease that I seek, and let me reproduce the experience.
It's just that, IF the crystals I'm seeing really are psilocybin, then I lose my accuracy, since doses taken from the surface and the bottom, where the crystal seems to live, will be stronger than doses taken from half way the vial. It is important that I avoid this problem.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#22098566 - 08/16/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: from all the teks ive read, they dont even mention getting crystals. Confusing.
But... there is crystals from the gods, .. fanaticus, .. etc. When I searched for "extraction" it was all about getting the crystals and taking those. Problem with that is that you have to weigh very carefully, since you need very little of the crystals in grams. A liquid solution does not have that problem.
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: I would say those "crystals" u have on the surfaace are really sugars from the mushrooms.
ive done ethanol extracts on mycelium before and ive gotten similar salts on the surface.
They might be sugars! Now that is an interesting hypothesis.
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Id suggest filtering the liquid with a coffee filter for example, keep the sugars/actives then drink the liquid, see what happens.
Yes, I can do this with part of the extract, and see which part works best.
Thanx, for the tips, I'll keep you posted.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: AkashicExplorer] 1
#22098715 - 08/16/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Update, I have now evaporated to about 120ml. It's getting milky again. I stopped the fan, and closed the jar.
An upper bound of 20 grams of cubes in 120ml says that 6ml corresponds to 1 gram of shrooms max.
In the first experiments I would like to dose and redose in portions of 1 gram of shrooms, so that means I have to ingest 6ml of alcohol for each dose/redose.
That is an amount of alcohol I am just about ready to accept. I am very sensitive to alcohol, I am on other substances that increase this sensitivity, so I have to be careful.
I'll try it out soon, but am not sure if it will be a weekday. Would certainly try next weekend.
I'll keep you all updated.
Love, Hanz.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22098755 - 08/16/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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good luck on your experiment.
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Achillita
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#22098808 - 08/16/15 01:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The actives in mushrooms are more soluble in water than in ethanol. You could evaporate it down to a low amount and try and add some water to aid the the solubility of the psilocybin.
--------------------
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Achillita]
#22098947 - 08/16/15 02:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: The actives in mushrooms are more soluble in water than in ethanol. You could evaporate it down to a low amount and try and add some water to aid the the solubility of the psilocybin.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. But then I read that longer term storage in water can be a problem, due to breakdown of the active compounds. And I would like to be able to store for at least a couple of months. I read that storing in alcohol, in the freezer, can keep the liquid good for at least a year, if not longer.
Maybe I want too many things at once: accurate dosing, small amount of alcohol, and long storage times?
So many people have done something like this before me, there must be an easy solution.
Perhaps there is an ideal mixture of alcohol and water, one that prevents crystallization of the psilocybin, but allows long term storage.
I'll keep reading about this...
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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StygianKnight
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22099004 - 08/16/15 02:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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And Logical takes the prize! These are sugars and not psilocybin that are crystallizing. While they might have some light activity from trapping the magic, it's still mostly in solution in your tincture.
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: StygianKnight]
#22099035 - 08/16/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
StygianKnight said: And Logical takes the prize! These are sugars and not psilocybin that are crystallizing. While they might have some light activity from trapping the magic, it's still mostly in solution in your tincture.
Ok, if true, that would be great news.
Still, I've read, I think in crystals from the gods, that at some point during the evaporation the psilocybin crystals do start to form.
What you are saying is: I have not reached that point yet and can still evaporate further.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22102510 - 08/17/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Bump. And a new pic.

This is a 30ml vial and is equivalent to 5 grams of dried Equadorian cubes. You can see it contains some solid particles.
Let's say I want to start by drinking half of it, that would mean ingesting 15ml of alcohol, roughly equivalent to 1 shot of whisky. I don't like to drink at all during my trips, but this amount, only at the start, is alright I guess.
Will test soon and report back.
Other experiments, like filtering or adding water will follow after that.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
Edited by Hanz (08/17/15 11:57 AM)
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tryptkaloids
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22102624 - 08/17/15 12:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think a shot that equals a 5 gram trip is worth it
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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rolear8
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: tryptkaloids]
#22102870 - 08/17/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I was thinking in do the same, not sure if the extra work worth it tho. Op let us know how it goes once you taste it.
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guyute22
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: rolear8]
#22103206 - 08/17/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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one shot would equal a 2.5 g trip, though. Still not bad!
--------------------
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: guyute22]
#22106040 - 08/18/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quoted from my grow log: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22101633#22101633
Quote:
bodhisatta said: The actives are soluble in water a tincture would be difficult. You can use vodka but its the 60%/water that helps the 40% alcohol doesn't matter at all. If you try to boil it down the alcohol mostly all evaporates off and Idk how well you can boil down the tea.
Your best bet may be trying to get as many cubes into as little water as possible. Then make ice cubes out of them and just swallow if small enough
Yes, so I'm in doubt between the water (=tea) and ethanol extraction methods. Now you say the alcohol doesn't matter at all. But then why do crystal extraction methods use (m)ethanol?
Perhaps the (m)ethanol is better at actually extracting, while water is better for obtaining a clear solution without crystals?
I am now also evaporating part of the extract down to dry crystals, and will test whether they are soluble in water. Pics tomorrow.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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tryptkaloids
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22106681 - 08/18/15 01:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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again, I suggest taking a look at the link I posted. he utilizes the water solubility and the preservative effects of the alcohol.
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: tryptkaloids]
#22106810 - 08/18/15 01:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
tryptkaloids said: again, I suggest taking a look at the link I posted. he utilizes the water solubility and the preservative effects of the alcohol.
Oops, getting behind on this, only did a quick peek on it, .. reading it better now.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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tryptkaloids
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22106845 - 08/18/15 01:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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the only thing is he's doing medicinal mushrooms so the temps are way high.. I don't think you want your cubes that hot
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: tryptkaloids]
#22127139 - 08/22/15 01:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok, here's the report people.
Last night was certainly fun, but the extraction is not a success yet.
Two reasons for that: 1) the potency of the extract was less than I expected 2) the toxicity of the alcohol and its side effects were higher than I expected.
20:00 I wanted to start slow. My GF and I each ingested 10ml of the extract, this corresponds to a maximum of 1.7 gram dried cubes. We mixed the extract with some fruit juice. I underestimated the amount of alcohol in the juice. I don't like the taste of it very much. I only ever drink pure scotch malt. The juice tasted terrible. Plus, shooting the whole glass of spiked juice gave me rather a stronger buzz than I wanted.
20:30 On a +1 experience, but the body load is very strong. Almost feels like being stoned on bad weed. No high. It is bothering me. We decide to wait a little for the second shot.
21:00 We decide to go for an open eye trip. No lying down tonight. Instead we go outside. It is lovely outside, nice warm summer evening. When we feel safe on the plateau we go back in for the second shot.
21:30 Each ingested another 10ml of the extract. It is now dark outside, but still very nice. The body load from the second amount of alcohol is again very strong. It doesn't interact nice with the psilocybin at all. Arms and legs feel heavy, joints feel heavy, head feels heavy. Still we decide to go outside again. There is a nice and very quiet square near where I live, it has a lot of birds, and trees with christmas lights.
22:00 The second batch is coming on. This corresponds upping the dose to about 3.3 grams. We are going to a +2 level. Still less than I expected, but I decide against taking more because the body load is so strong, presumably from the alcohol interaction effect.
22:30 Some very nice things happen. There is some kind of big sailing festival going on in my town with hundreds of boats and ships, and right now they have their huge fireworks show. We can just about see the top of it through the trees. Suddenly a cat comes up to me, jumps on my lap, and seeks refuge from the fireworks' noise. It is great to have a purring cat surprise me while at this tripping level. We laugh, and it seems happy too.
23:00 We are now at a comfortable +2. Nothing very special, but the good thing is that the side effects are now over. This is a big relief. Sadly, it is also the reason why we decide not to take any more. Taking the third 10ml would again give us 45 minutes of heavy body load from the alcohol. We ride it out from here on. There are cev's when we give them the chance, but no oev's.
0:30 We are starting to come down. This is sooner than if we had eaten the shrooms straight, or made tea. I start to feel very tired, even though it is not my usual bedtime yet. This too is the alcohol. We go inside, and lie down. There is still some high left. An hour later we are sound asleep.
Next moring I feel as if I didn't trip at all.
Conclusions: 1) This was not a 3.3gram trip, even though it should have been. Therefore, the extraction did not work perfectly. Some psilocybin must have been left in the residue, and not ended up in the extract. What a pity!
2) The alcohol really is a problem. I need to work on this. More of it needs to be evaporated away so that we don't have to consume it. Problem is that I was afraid of the crystallization, of course. But maybe I shouldn't be. As an experiment I took one bottle of 30ml and evaporated it dry. All that was left as crystal was already visible at 30ml anyway. This makes me think that the crystals were not sugars, but really psilocybin. The alcohol didn't function as a solvent, but only as a conservative.
To do: some more research, and another test soon!
I'll keep you updated.
Love, Hanz.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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tryptkaloids
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22127196 - 08/22/15 02:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think redosing is why it wasn't a 3.3 gram trip bro... taking more won't get you higher. you just need to put more fungi in so you need less alcohol to get more goodies
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: tryptkaloids]
#22127697 - 08/22/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You're right. Taking two half doses with 90 minutes in between was never going to get me to the same level as taking it all at once. But hey, this was a first, so I had to start low.
Now I know it's not very potent, I'll at least triple the concentration and take a little more next time. And in one go.
Also, next time will be a closed eyed trip again. Those inner trips usually take me higher anyway. It's as if you give the shrooms more opportunity to take you away...
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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StygianKnight
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22127824 - 08/22/15 04:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's important to note that extracts are known to be unstable so some loss of magic is expected unless you add some anti-oxidants to the mix. You might consider trying this as a slightly acidic water extract instead. It will need to be kept frozen till use but if you are experimenting at home that's no problem and no alcohol to deal with.
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: StygianKnight]
#22128027 - 08/22/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You're saying oxidation could have been responsible for the loss of potency. Not just a poor method of extraction, like too few washes?
It was in the bottles (at room temp) for only a couple of days. Enough for oxidation?
I can add some citric acid when I evaporate to a higher concentration. After that I'll add water to see if the crystals disappear again.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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healing
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz] 1
#22128966 - 08/22/15 10:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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This kind of testing is barely a form experimentation to begin with. If you're going to compare the relative intensity of your trips, you need to minimize as many confounds as possible, so you need to have a consistent method of dosage. Now you have to choose either to continue with the dosage plan you followed in this last test and have it as your only datapoint, or throw out this test and start all over. But you got to trip out, though, so it's not really a loss at all
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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StygianKnight
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: healing] 1
#22129271 - 08/23/15 12:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Oxidation is a potential route of potency loss and is more common in solution. Light exposure is another big one. And of course, it's all subjective.
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healing
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: StygianKnight]
#22129288 - 08/23/15 12:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It might be better to take what one should reason is as close to precisely a threshold dose as possible, then measure the effects in absence or presence.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Bugler Boy
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: healing]
#22129667 - 08/23/15 05:49 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The xtals in the crystals of the gods aren't active. It's the liquid itself, the 'crystals' are the inactives that crash out first. Getting psilo to crystallize is very hard, it's fragile and a home extractor would most likely have their pH too skewed and destroy it. You can't really expect to just throw some mush and ethanol in a jar and get pure psilo xtals... Unless you can get synthetic psilo your going to be hard pressed to duplicate the results the mushroom already produced growing itself in a homemade tincture.
-------------------- The mushroom speaks: '"I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life... How the hypercommunication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds"
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StygianKnight
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Bugler Boy]
#22130579 - 08/23/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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One of the issues is that we are actually dealing with a small amount of chemical per dose. Generally a dose is around 10-30mg, this alone should rule out rather large crystals as the final product. Even an extract of the gods can't produce more psilocybin than went in to your extract.
Frankly this is all fine, you don't want crystals. Crystals seem to be more unstable than extracts.
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healing
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: StygianKnight]
#22132514 - 08/23/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't really see the point in trying, personally. I'd rather just eat them or make some tea, but to each their own, I guess.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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thoraxx
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: healing]
#22133736 - 08/24/15 02:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Try using only regular 40% alk, its enough to preserve it but shouldnt get you as drunk and the water is atleast as good a solvent as the etoh
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: healing]
#22133996 - 08/24/15 05:38 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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First of all, thanks everyone for your replies. Let's see..
Quote:
healing said: This kind of testing is barely a form experimentation to begin with. If you're going to compare the relative intensity of your trips, you need to minimize as many confounds as possible, so you need to have a consistent method of dosage. Now you have to choose either to continue with the dosage plan you followed in this last test and have it as your only datapoint, or throw out this test and start all over. But you got to trip out, though, so it's not really a loss at all 
You're right, this is not a very systematic way of testing. But I feel it does give me some indication how strong the extract is. I've done this redosing two half doses with other mushrooms and truffles, followed by doing the same substance in a single dose in some later trip. Using this experience, I feel that I can extrapolate from what I have learned in this first experiment. But is it Shulgin-style scientific? No.
Quote:
Bugler Boy said: The xtals in the crystals of the gods aren't active. It's the liquid itself, the 'crystals' are the inactives that crash out first. Getting psilo to crystallize is very hard, it's fragile and a home extractor would most likely have their pH too skewed and destroy it. You can't really expect to just throw some mush and ethanol in a jar and get pure psilo xtals... Unless you can get synthetic psilo your going to be hard pressed to duplicate the results the mushroom already produced growing itself in a homemade tincture.
I understand that at least part of the crystals are not the active compounds. But when I evaporated some of the tincture completely dry, hardly any more material emerged than what was already crystallized half way the evaporation. As I understand it, this can mean at least two opposite things: either the method extracted mostly pure psilocybine, and not much else. Or the method extracted inactive crystal as well, but was simply not very effective overall. (other conclusions are also possible)
Sadly the test (as I performed it) did not really distinguish between these two possibilities. The trip was approximately half as strong as I expected. Maybe it was relatively pure psilocybin, but was, for example, somehow degraded by oxidation. Or maybe it was not degraded, but simply not completely extracted, and some of the actives were left in the unused residue.
Quote:
healing said: I don't really see the point in trying, personally. I'd rather just eat them or make some tea, but to each their own, I guess.
Nothing wrong with eating them, or making tea. But I was a little fed up with the taste, and hoped that maybe this way I could also find a way to accurately dose my trips by using the average strength of a whole batch of shrooms. No more surprises, like smaller shrooms being stronger than larger ones, or differences between flushes..
Guys, I am just an amateur doing this for the first time. I've spent some hours reading extraction methods, but that certainly does not make me an expert. It is just a fun way to spent some time, and see if maybe I can find a handy way of storing and accurately dosing my shrooms... 
Thanks again, to be continued. Until then, Love, Hanz.
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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thoraxx
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22134304 - 08/24/15 07:24 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
hoped that maybe this way I could also find a way to accurately dose my trips by using the average strength of a whole batch of shrooms. No more surprises, like smaller shrooms being stronger than larger ones, or differences between flushes..
I have been working on that same problem, so far the most convenient solution for me was powdering the dried shrooms and stuffing into capsules Its great for accurate dosing just by counting the pills, preserves good enough and foolproof to make with cheap equipment
Still looking for some way to preserve the fresh state with both actives present and remove the nauseating insolubles i have been workign on a tincture aswell, but havent found a good recipe yet
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Hanz
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: thoraxx]
#22134452 - 08/24/15 08:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've considered powdering and capsuling dried shrooms, and one day I will test it too.
I was afraid of this however: I noticed that when eating dried shrooms, chewing them for as long as possible made the stomach load less, while not chewing them, and swallowing almost immediately made the stomach load heavier.
Do you notice any specifically higher stomach load when swallowing the capsules, compared to chewing the dried shrooms for as long as possible? Or perhaps because the shrooms are powdered the stomach has no real problem with them...
I went for the tincture because I was hoping it would lessen the body load, and was a little disappointed that it did not (yet).
-------------------- Small scale alternative parties rich in empathy and extravagance. Happen to know of one in the vicinity of Amsterdam? PM me my dear fellow. I love to meet some other freaks. Oh and, if you can,.. embrace the nyctomorph. It needs you.
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tryptkaloids
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Re: Liquid Psilocybin: crystals unwanted. How? [Re: Hanz]
#22144606 - 08/26/15 06:15 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Or perhaps because the shrooms are powdered the stomach has no real problem with them...
bingo! any time mushrooms are powdered there is almost no stomach issues IME
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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