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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Stoned Ape Theory
    #22096443 - 08/15/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Is not a theory, and not even a lowly hypothesis, as there is no way to test it.

:lockdance:


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22096464 - 08/15/15 09:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:popcorn:


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InvisibleKurt
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Registered: 11/26/14
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22096548 - 08/15/15 09:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Pahah

Orgone conclusion is Kind of like Tom Waits... as he ages he turns either into a gravel voiced bluesman singing about love, or the self parody.


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Kurt]
    #22096577 - 08/15/15 09:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

"It is like liquid gold running through one's fingers" -TM


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I am that, which is.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22096653 - 08/15/15 10:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

From magic mushrooms the psilocybin metabolises into psilocin which has a very similar chemical structure to serotonin, a neurotransmitter.

Adding neurotransmitters to their diet is likely to have had psychological affects, does this increase in neurotransmitters affect behavioral patterns? If so isn't it reasonable to hypothesise that they played a role in the change of our behavior from objective to subjective consciousness.

If it were possible to prove behavioral effects of psilocybin it could be used to explain how we learnt rudimentary consciousness.

These are my beliefs.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (08/15/15 10:12 PM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: sudly]
    #22096680 - 08/15/15 10:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That is fine as a totally untestable speculation, but one cannot go any further.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22096703 - 08/15/15 10:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

There is evidence of LSD reducing instinctual behaviors and improving intuition.

1960's cat LSD experiments, Dr Barry Jacobs.

It's proven psychedelics can change the behavior in an animal but can they learn the behavior?

If psychedelics promoted an early human to learn and play with a toy or draw with a stick. Could we define consciousness as our human ability to override our instinct?


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (08/16/15 01:17 AM)


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OfflineRennHuhn
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22097863 - 08/16/15 08:01 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HypothesisYou are completely wrong in that regard.
It is a hypothesis as it explains something that is still unexplained. The existing evidence is really flimsy as it is only anecdotal evidence. But it is further testable.

Further evidence could be obtained in a number of relevant ways:
1. A good study on visual acuity with shrooms. Best test it with real hunters.
2. Give groups of apes shrooms. Tesr if apes actually are willing to eat shrooms.
3. Look at the history if religions and test if religions are a cultural factor that strengthens the group.
4. Further research into religious experiences resulting from shrooms.
5. Further research into microdosing and if shrooms are beneficial for learning new stuff.
6. Creating a bridge between creativity research and psychedelic research. Also try to think up experiments whuch can test creativity in apes. If shroom experiences are beneficial for problem solving purposes then they are a beneficial for the group.
7. Research on "cultural evolution"(evolution of behaviour in ape groups)
8.Further research into the climate changes in relation to early himan evolution.
9. There is a lot regarding the stones ape theory that could be answered with fossils. If we would find prehuman scribbles of shrooms, it would be a strong suggestion.
10. Can berserkers be created with shrooms? If yes would they be a positive factor in competition between groups?


If you want to argue with me remember that I dont believe in the stoned ape theory. But I support open mindedness, especially in regard toward unsolved questions.


Edited by RennHuhn (08/16/15 08:02 AM)


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InvisibleSun King
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #22098025 - 08/16/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Looks like you are feeling better.

:innocentjoy:


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Sun King]
    #22098310 - 08/16/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

actually giving mushrooms to large groups of monkey's would be sso interesting


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InvisibleSun King
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22098314 - 08/16/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It would be like planet of the apes.


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Invisiblecubedryeguy
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: sudly]
    #22098393 - 08/16/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
There is evidence of LSD reducing instinctual behaviors and improving intuition.

1960's cat LSD experiments, Dr Barry Jacobs.

It's proven psychedelics can change the behavior in an animal but can they learn the behavior?

If psychedelics promoted an early human to learn and play with a toy or draw with a stick. Could we define consciousness as our human ability to override our instinct?



This sounds reasonable. Maybe it increased neuron activity which stimulated the use of our imaginative faculties. The increase or starting point of our imagination allowed us to visualize and analyze our surroundings and problem solve in that way.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: cubedryeguy]
    #22098544 - 08/16/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Please state one major problem you solved while tripping.

Also how does tripping effect DNA and subsequent generations?


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OfflineRennHuhn
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22098612 - 08/16/15 12:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Experiencing new and unusual situations leads to a somewhat long-term increase in creativity, which may help solving problems. Shrooms are for sure somewhat unusual. So in a sense they may help solving problems.

How tripping may change DNA is also possible in an hypothetical indirect way: Shrooms->visiual acuity/better understanding of animal behavior/the gods told me to eat meat/sudden realisation that fire and meat could be great/ -> more hunting -> more calories for my brain->bigger brains are suddenly no longer a negative thing.

Quite unlikely but possible as maybe a supporting factor. A "hunting trance" is something that is existing, so maybe shrooms can help with that.

I personally belive that the stoned ape theory is another of the countless ways Terence overvalued shrooms in the greater scheme of things. But he themselve stated that he didnt believed in it and used it as ttojan horse to start a discussion on the influences of shrooms on human culture. And to propagate his idea that human and shrooms form a symbiosis, which again maybe just another way of him to get people to eat shrooms.


Edited by RennHuhn (08/16/15 12:23 PM)


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OfflineMatt87
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22098769 - 08/16/15 01:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Please state one major problem you solved while tripping.

Also how does tripping effect DNA and subsequent generations?



I doubled my Kickboxing skills in just a few hours of training while tripping hard. That after 6 or 7 years of training already....that's an unbelievable leap.

I don't know about changing DNA but any incites/tricks/shortcuts learned from thinking outside the box while tripping could be passed along to offspring thus speeding up evolution in a way.


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Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Matt87]
    #22098815 - 08/16/15 01:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Kickboxing skills are not passed down. :sorry:


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OfflineMatt87
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22098931 - 08/16/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Sure, they can be. If it took me 7 years to learn to effectively make people walk into strikes and I teach my daughter those tricks and setups when she first starts training, she has bypassed all those years of trial and error.


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Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi


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Offlineshr
all hail discordia
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Matt87]
    #22098953 - 08/16/15 02:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Matt87 said:
Sure, they can be. If it took me 7 years to learn to effectively make people walk into strikes and I teach my daughter those tricks and setups when she first starts training, she has bypassed all those years of trial and error.





I think orgone is referring to genetic inheritance. You can't pass down neural connections, which is all what skills are


Edited by shr (08/16/15 02:23 PM)


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OfflineRennHuhn
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: shr]
    #22099293 - 08/16/15 04:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

But cultural technology can influence DNA. Clothing is the best example, without clothing we would have developed completely different.


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Offlineshr
all hail discordia
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: RennHuhn]
    #22099315 - 08/16/15 04:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RennHuhn said:
But cultural technology can influence DNA. Clothing is the best example, without clothing we would have developed completely different.





Well technically, every signal our nervous system receives influences DNA in some fashion

thoughts influence dna
parents influence dna
friends influence dna
the lights in your home influence dna

ect...


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: RennHuhn]
    #22099345 - 08/16/15 04:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RennHuhn said:
But cultural technology can influence DNA. Clothing is the best example, without clothing we would have developed completely different.



thats actually a good point.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22099576 - 08/16/15 05:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I managed to 'dissolve' my ego and accept/express how I truly felt about a certain situation which gave me clarity of mind for some time.
I was able to temporarily overcome my subjective fears and remain in tune with my senses in the given moment.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: RennHuhn]
    #22099619 - 08/16/15 05:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Consciousness could be as simple as a learned behavior and is likely to have been affected by dietary changes.
Mushrooms are likely to have been added to the diet of omnivorous due to their availability.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150806133148.htm

In the IN INSECTS: section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin
It says that serotonin puts arthropods into a gregarious state that allows coherent grouping, this sounds very similar to what you said about a hunting trance.

As I see it, consciousness is a learnt behavior.
New behaviors and personal experiences are formed with shrooms, if shrooms have such behavioral effects I am willing to place my bet and say that those behaviors when influenced by shrooms can and have been learnt by humans.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleCowb0yNeal00
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: sudly]
    #22114139 - 08/19/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

i miss jerry


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Cowb0yNeal00]
    #22124217 - 08/21/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Well, the karma of the day has certain behaviours that all life forms share, like walking or swimming, flying, or just moving in general..we all have limbs, and even trees have so called extensions like branches...and it is in our DNA that we are say similar to Chimpanzees by a 98.6 Percentile...

And so the karma speaks that says the Ape is like us..and we are like the Ape..but to relate them properly..will show us the exact thing that makes us different..and it is in that inherant aspect of this Nature..which with Nurture can show us the way! This is the Green Party, of the movements of the Jungle..and the rain of the Coniferous Great North! Northern Pride is Always about the Pine..and the Evergreen..which in Police Talk is usually a Stocking of or a following of a certain Criminal..but its in our very Nature to relate to nature..and that is what Nurture IS!!

So its like that we can compare our actions with other animals..and there in is the missing link..maybe the Ape in you wants to get stoned???


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #22124248 - 08/21/15 08:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

And maybe Im being morbid..but with the recent playing of the Song Black Widow By Iggy Azalea and Rita Ora..but we can be relating not only in a spiders movements..but we can take the metaphor of weaving Web and Creating Miracles on Planet earth..we of course will find that we have a certain amount of similarities with Our Ape Brethren...and its probably easy to say that these are percentages that make up our very fabric of existence..

But of course...we have a lot of Overcoming that will not necessarily relate to the other animals in the kingdom of life..and I think this is Nietzsche Esc..But it is this reason precisely that we are at the top of our Food chain..and Pyramid.. Precisely this reason is how we even overcome each other..in different ways..but we can always say that when you are alive..you will always find a function..and then we trickle down information that you can understand at your own level..whether your an Ape, an Ant, or a Goat..and of course if your a Human Being!


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