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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Stoned Ape Theory
#22096443 - 08/15/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Is not a theory, and not even a lowly hypothesis, as there is no way to test it.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
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Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
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Pahah
Orgone conclusion is Kind of like Tom Waits... as he ages he turns either into a gravel voiced bluesman singing about love, or the self parody.
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Khancious
da Crow



Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 628
Loc: Behind Everything
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Kurt]
#22096577 - 08/15/15 09:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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"It is like liquid gold running through one's fingers" -TM
-------------------- I am that, which is.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,805
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From magic mushrooms the psilocybin metabolises into psilocin which has a very similar chemical structure to serotonin, a neurotransmitter.
Adding neurotransmitters to their diet is likely to have had psychological affects, does this increase in neurotransmitters affect behavioral patterns? If so isn't it reasonable to hypothesise that they played a role in the change of our behavior from objective to subjective consciousness.
If it were possible to prove behavioral effects of psilocybin it could be used to explain how we learnt rudimentary consciousness.
These are my beliefs.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (08/15/15 10:12 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: sudly]
#22096680 - 08/15/15 10:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That is fine as a totally untestable speculation, but one cannot go any further.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,805
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There is evidence of LSD reducing instinctual behaviors and improving intuition.
1960's cat LSD experiments, Dr Barry Jacobs.
It's proven psychedelics can change the behavior in an animal but can they learn the behavior?
If psychedelics promoted an early human to learn and play with a toy or draw with a stick. Could we define consciousness as our human ability to override our instinct?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (08/16/15 01:17 AM)
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RennHuhn
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HypothesisYou are completely wrong in that regard. It is a hypothesis as it explains something that is still unexplained. The existing evidence is really flimsy as it is only anecdotal evidence. But it is further testable.
Further evidence could be obtained in a number of relevant ways: 1. A good study on visual acuity with shrooms. Best test it with real hunters. 2. Give groups of apes shrooms. Tesr if apes actually are willing to eat shrooms. 3. Look at the history if religions and test if religions are a cultural factor that strengthens the group. 4. Further research into religious experiences resulting from shrooms. 5. Further research into microdosing and if shrooms are beneficial for learning new stuff. 6. Creating a bridge between creativity research and psychedelic research. Also try to think up experiments whuch can test creativity in apes. If shroom experiences are beneficial for problem solving purposes then they are a beneficial for the group. 7. Research on "cultural evolution"(evolution of behaviour in ape groups) 8.Further research into the climate changes in relation to early himan evolution. 9. There is a lot regarding the stones ape theory that could be answered with fossils. If we would find prehuman scribbles of shrooms, it would be a strong suggestion. 10. Can berserkers be created with shrooms? If yes would they be a positive factor in competition between groups?
If you want to argue with me remember that I dont believe in the stoned ape theory. But I support open mindedness, especially in regard toward unsolved questions.
Edited by RennHuhn (08/16/15 08:02 AM)
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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Looks like you are feeling better.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Sun King]
#22098310 - 08/16/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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actually giving mushrooms to large groups of monkey's would be sso interesting
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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It would be like planet of the apes.
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cubedryeguy
Stranger


Registered: 07/24/15
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: sudly]
#22098393 - 08/16/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: There is evidence of LSD reducing instinctual behaviors and improving intuition.
1960's cat LSD experiments, Dr Barry Jacobs.
It's proven psychedelics can change the behavior in an animal but can they learn the behavior?
If psychedelics promoted an early human to learn and play with a toy or draw with a stick. Could we define consciousness as our human ability to override our instinct?
This sounds reasonable. Maybe it increased neuron activity which stimulated the use of our imaginative faculties. The increase or starting point of our imagination allowed us to visualize and analyze our surroundings and problem solve in that way.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Please state one major problem you solved while tripping.
Also how does tripping effect DNA and subsequent generations?
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RennHuhn
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Experiencing new and unusual situations leads to a somewhat long-term increase in creativity, which may help solving problems. Shrooms are for sure somewhat unusual. So in a sense they may help solving problems.
How tripping may change DNA is also possible in an hypothetical indirect way: Shrooms->visiual acuity/better understanding of animal behavior/the gods told me to eat meat/sudden realisation that fire and meat could be great/ -> more hunting -> more calories for my brain->bigger brains are suddenly no longer a negative thing.
Quite unlikely but possible as maybe a supporting factor. A "hunting trance" is something that is existing, so maybe shrooms can help with that.
I personally belive that the stoned ape theory is another of the countless ways Terence overvalued shrooms in the greater scheme of things. But he themselve stated that he didnt believed in it and used it as ttojan horse to start a discussion on the influences of shrooms on human culture. And to propagate his idea that human and shrooms form a symbiosis, which again maybe just another way of him to get people to eat shrooms.
Edited by RennHuhn (08/16/15 12:23 PM)
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Matt87

Registered: 01/03/15
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Loc: Tennessee
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Please state one major problem you solved while tripping.
Also how does tripping effect DNA and subsequent generations?
I doubled my Kickboxing skills in just a few hours of training while tripping hard. That after 6 or 7 years of training already....that's an unbelievable leap.
I don't know about changing DNA but any incites/tricks/shortcuts learned from thinking outside the box while tripping could be passed along to offspring thus speeding up evolution in a way.
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  Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Matt87]
#22098815 - 08/16/15 01:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Kickboxing skills are not passed down.
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Matt87

Registered: 01/03/15
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Loc: Tennessee
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Sure, they can be. If it took me 7 years to learn to effectively make people walk into strikes and I teach my daughter those tricks and setups when she first starts training, she has bypassed all those years of trial and error.
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  Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi
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shr
all hail discordia



Registered: 08/12/10
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Last seen: 6 years, 7 days
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: Matt87]
#22098953 - 08/16/15 02:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Matt87 said: Sure, they can be. If it took me 7 years to learn to effectively make people walk into strikes and I teach my daughter those tricks and setups when she first starts training, she has bypassed all those years of trial and error.
I think orgone is referring to genetic inheritance. You can't pass down neural connections, which is all what skills are
Edited by shr (08/16/15 02:23 PM)
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RennHuhn
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: shr]
#22099293 - 08/16/15 04:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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But cultural technology can influence DNA. Clothing is the best example, without clothing we would have developed completely different.
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shr
all hail discordia



Registered: 08/12/10
Posts: 557
Last seen: 6 years, 7 days
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Re: Stoned Ape Theory [Re: RennHuhn]
#22099315 - 08/16/15 04:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
RennHuhn said: But cultural technology can influence DNA. Clothing is the best example, without clothing we would have developed completely different.
Well technically, every signal our nervous system receives influences DNA in some fashion
thoughts influence dna parents influence dna friends influence dna the lights in your home influence dna
ect...
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