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Bud Fuggins
Bolete picker


Registered: 09/11/14
Posts: 251
Loc: I used to live in Little ...
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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What's with the ii at end of mushroom names?
#22094275 - 08/15/15 10:05 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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What is with the "ii" at the end of mushroom names and how are you supposed to pronounce this, as 2 or ee? What does it mean and why do I never see i or iii? Someone posted an article about Charles Barrow:
Quote:
Smith and Thiers agreed that it was a new and distinctive species, and decided to name the fungus Boletus barrowsii, after Chuck Barrows. Chuck repeated this scenario many more times over the course of 35 years, seven of those times resulting in a new species description. Besides Boletus barrowsii, these includeLactarius barrowsii, Amanita barrowsii, and Hebeloma barrowsii.
All of his finds end in ii, is this just used to show that it was named after someone or something? I tried to google this, I tried to search forums; it's just one of those things that's impossible to specifically search for on the net.
In addition to my question, here's two cute bonus picture from last I went out:

Edited by Bud Fuggins (08/15/15 10:08 AM)
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: Bud Fuggins]
#22094323 - 08/15/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's the Latin genitive. In your example, 'barrowsius' which itself is the latinification of Barrows (from Chuck Barrows, an amateur mycologist who described a few mushroom species), becomes 'barowsii'; the 'us' is transformed in 'i' as per the rules of Latin grammar.
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Bud Fuggins
Bolete picker


Registered: 09/11/14
Posts: 251
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: koraks]
#22094391 - 08/15/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Okay, that makes sense. So it's pronounced Bare-oh-see then right?
Edited by Bud Fuggins (08/15/15 10:39 AM)
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ToxicMan
Bite me, it's fun!


Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 6,722
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: Bud Fuggins]
#22094595 - 08/15/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Everybody I've heard pronounces it barrows-ee-eye.
As an extra, look for the mushroom names that end in -ae. That name tells you that it was named after a woman. The -ii suffix tells you it was after a man.
-------------------- Happy mushrooming!
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Fantastic Mr. Fox
Grass Seed Connoisseur


Registered: 02/12/15
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Loc:
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: ToxicMan]
#22094709 - 08/15/15 12:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks for that!!

-------------------- Giving is all we have, for we're just grateful to be alive

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elprawn
Mushroom Guestimator



Registered: 10/17/09
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I would say Barrow-see. Not to say that I'm correct in doing so, of course. Just chipping in with my pronunciation.
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inski
Cortinariologist



Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 5,720
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: elprawn]
#22094920 - 08/15/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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"ii" is pronounced as ee-eye
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elprawn
Mushroom Guestimator



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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: inski]
#22094936 - 08/15/15 01:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well I'll be darned.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: elprawn]
#22095109 - 08/15/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Depends on where you live. In Europe it's ee-ee. Nobody really knows though, as nobody has ever heard an ancient Roman pronounce this. The only thing we can go on is church Latin. The European pronunciation is closer to that.
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: inski]
#22095245 - 08/15/15 03:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
inski said: "ii" is pronounced as ee-eye
That is how I have always pronounced it.
-------------------- ©️
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inski
Cortinariologist



Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 5,720
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: Lucis]
#22095383 - 08/15/15 03:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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There really is no "correct" way to pronounce these words because Botanical Latin is not a true language but rather a mixture of Latin, Greek and also of indigenous dialects and often referring to place names or people of importance or in some cases nonsense, the only thing that matters is that the group of people involved in the conversation collectively know what genus or species is being referred to, speak with confidence and pronounce the words how you like or are comfortable with, don't hesitate or change your mind mid sentence and contradicting my previous post, don't bother correcting people in conversation as long as you know what organism is being referred to. When writing names spelling is more important than pronounciation is in conversation.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: inski]
#22098070 - 08/16/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well said, inski. I agree completely.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: ToxicMan]
#22098740 - 08/16/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ToxicMan said: Everybody I've heard pronounces it barrows-ee-eye.
As an extra, look for the mushroom names that end in -ae. That name tells you that it was named after a woman. The -ii suffix tells you it was after a man.
I did not know that!
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: ToxicMan]
#22101366 - 08/17/15 02:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ToxicMan said: As an extra, look for the mushroom names that end in -ae. That name tells you that it was named after a woman. The -ii suffix tells you it was after a man.
Really? Doesn't the gender of the species follow that of the genus? According to Latin grammar, this should be the case. Hence, a species in a female genus will have a female ending (usually 'ae') even if it's named after a man and vice versa.
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ToxicMan
Bite me, it's fun!


Registered: 06/28/02
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: koraks]
#22101789 - 08/17/15 07:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The gender of the epithets is supposed to follow the genus, but this would appear to be an exception (although I'm not good enough at Latin to be able to say what every suffix gender is).
Two examples I know of off the top of my head are Boletus mottiae and Hebeloma evensoniae, both of which were named after women. In fact, Harry Thiers accidentally originally published B. mottiae as B. mottii. It was recently corrected to what he intended.
Note also that none of the various "barrowsii" species is made "barrowsiae", regardless of the gender of the genus.
-------------------- Happy mushrooming!
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guyute22
Ugly Pig


Registered: 07/27/15
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: ToxicMan]
#22101863 - 08/17/15 08:35 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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fascinating stuff!
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: guyute22]
#22102709 - 08/17/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fascinating! Interesting to know TM, thanks for sharing that.
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ToxicMan
Bite me, it's fun!


Registered: 06/28/02
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: koraks]
#22104282 - 08/17/15 08:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just thought I'd throw in that:
Boletus mottiae was named after Lillian Mott, the person that provided the type collection to Harry Thiers.
Hebeloma evensoniae was named after Vera Evenson (by Alexander H. Smith), the person that did all of the microscopy for the monograph on Hebelomas with veils. It also happens to be only member of the genus with smooth spores, a feature she discovered and that was subsequently confirmed with an electron microscope.
-------------------- Happy mushrooming!
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Bud Fuggins
Bolete picker



Registered: 09/11/14
Posts: 251
Loc: I used to live in Little ...
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: ToxicMan]
#22104351 - 08/17/15 08:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Nice, I knew ya'll would be helpful. So the obvious next question is, is it standard practice to name after the amateur who sends it into the university?; and how do you go about starting this practice? I reckon you have to be pretty good at IDing shrooms first so they're not like OMG stop sending us Marasimius Oreades saying it may be unknown; (like the people asking if magic here). That Barrows article said most of the ones he sent in were not unknown species. Maybe you just hook up with the mycology club and go from there? I work too much to meet regularly with them folks.
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TimmiT


Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 5,303
Loc: Victoria
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Re: What's with the ii at end of mushroom names? [Re: Bud Fuggins]
#22105465 - 08/18/15 05:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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When a species is named after a person it's done to honour that person/ commemorate their significant contributions to the field.
-------------------- "Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon
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