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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Peat moss casing tutorial * 9
    #22091522 - 08/14/15 11:38 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Please note that this is not a comparison thread, or a thread that is arguing for one casing over another.  They can all work well.  There are other threads u can argue ur point in. 
This is a HOT TO USE PEAT MOSS thread. 
also note that cubes do not require a casing layer.  yes, we all know that.

I have been getting a lot of PMs lately about substrate or casings.  its annoying to answer each one (no offense) so i figured i'd write this up.  I don't really write TEKs cause i don't do anything special.  old school ain't bad school if you ask me.  i got no weird gimmicks, or tricks to make things better or go faster or anything like that.  those things are all interesting to me, and i try a lot of them, but i always fall back to the basics it seems like.  Since there isn't really a casing thread i could find that went into too much detail about home made casings, i decided this might be a good opportunity to write one.  There is Franks jiffy mix TEK, and the standard Ryche Hawk's 50/50 (+) casing TEK in the FAQ section, and probably the best visual one is the RR video in the casing chapter here.  I wanna point out that when i make casings or substrate, i really don't measure much.  its all by feel so this isn't exactly how i do it every time.  recently i've been trying NO verm casings with success, and continue to play around with NO hydrated lime.  traditionally, button growers, who we learned HOW to case from, use only peat and limestone, NO HEAT, nada.  just mix dry and add water and apply.  the original 50/50 TEK did not have hydrated lime, nor did the original RR casing TEK.  again, old school ain't bad school.  I'm not one to push for one way or another, i think u should do what works for you.

I've been casing with peat for a while now, and i really have no problems with it.  I see a lot of people might, but then again, u never know when dude posts he tried it and got green, did dude really try it though?  the regulars I'm sure are keen to their word, and know the kinds of posters I'm referring to.  they're always one step ahead of all the other noobs :rolleyes:

so maybe IRL, peat doesn't really have that much of a bad wrap, but its just something that generally got accepted and repeated.  could be for a reason though, and I'm an exception, but i've had many a contaminant in bulk growing, FEW of them green, and none of them from the casing layer (that i could tell anyways), so i tend to think peat should be given a second chance (if u haven't already honestly tried it)

Explanation of ingredients.
I know there are many people who use jiffy mix, or other pre mixes.  Thats all well and good, and obviously they are easy, fast, and work wonders.  Maybe its just the way i am, but i like to get down to the nitty gritty, and usually end up making things harder on myself by doing things from scratch.  This is one of those things. 
Bales of peat are REALLY cheap.  they are 3 cubic feet, and compacted well, its really a lot of peat.  i know many of u grow weed or other ethnobotanicals, or do gardening stuff.  i think thats all the more reason to go this route.  it stores well outside/garage/basement.  keep it as dry as u can, if its outside, a tarp is fine.  Here is a recent price comparison at Home Depot


So i buy the bale.  the one pictured above is a brand called "Lamberts".  i haven't used that one, but the one i use wasn't there when i took the picture.  Its organic (this is of no consequence, just the brand i think has best quality, and its same price) and called "Majestic Earth".  if u get small bags, loose bags, etc, its all good.  whatever is cheap.  you might get some brands u don't like, and in time u'll figure out what and why.  I look for texture and relatively few sticks.

Next is vermiculite.  I'm sure many of u buy this in bulk cause the coir bucket TEK.  or at least, i hope u buy it in bulk :lol:  This is the course stuff.  I think its better for casing, but the fine or medium is perfectly good too.  i actually like fine verm for bucket TEK more.  this is just what i have.


Next is limestone.  this is just regular powder limestone for your yard.  i know the bag says "granular" and "chunks" but, i swear its powdery.  if ur looking for it, its usually outside in garden section in 40 lb bags (its heavy even though bag is small).  less than $10/bag.  You can also use it in grains or in bucket TEK.  its kinda similar to gypsum, but has no sulphur.  FEEL the bag before u buy it, it should feel like powder.  crushed oyster shell is another option and will do a similar thing if crushed fine enough.


Next is hydrated lime.  The two best/most used and recognized brands are "hi-yield" and "hoffman".  i got some on amazon once, and it didn't even work, not sure what the deal was with that.  there are probably others, but hoffman is easiest to get for me.  its very strong, very powdery, you should be careful with it.  Again, this is cheap, $10 or less a bag.


note back of bag label.  magnesium content is low, you will want it under ~5% or so


Perlite (not pictured) and Gypsum . you can substitute gypsum for limestone if you want.  Perlite, I'm sure u know what it looks like.  its optional but helpful.  I'll be using Miracle grow perlite for this, but i would strongly encourage you to go with another brand.



Lets get started, shall we?

First, lets note than we are about to pasteurize properly.  this could take a while :frown:  so lets get lifted!  its summer time, enjoy it while it lasts.  open the doors, turn on some tunes.
roll up a spliff


and smoke it


alright, lets sit down and take a breath.  we're about to mix up some peat, right?  ummm, yea i think so…lemme just think for a second….oh yea..yea, thats what we were up to :stoned2:

The recipe I'm making today will be for two standard tubs.  I use about 2.5 qts of casing per tub.
5-6 qts peat (it shrinks when it gets wet)
1qt coarse vermiculite (fine, medium ok too)
3/4 cup limestone (finely ground best bet)
3/4 cup perlite

If i was adding hydrated lime to this, i would add about 1 heaping teaspoon (or about 1 level teaspoon per tub).  Today, i will not be adding it.  If ur just starting to experiment with peat, it would be wise to include that in your recipe.  Im using this as an example to show that peat can be used safely w/o ph strips or hydrated lime.

If limestone is unavailable, gypsum can be substituted. IME, it doesn't provide the small upswing limestone does, but it does the job just fine.  I have a lot of limestone from when i couldn't find gypsum, so i still am using that.

1. Get a large pot.  I use this one a lot for myco stuff.  maybe 2.5 gallons big?  whatever works, small buckets are good.
2. A course strainer and/or pasta strainer (the larger the holes the better)


3. Grab a small container and start scooping in ur peat moss, sticks, clumps, and all.


4. Sift it back and forth.  the peat you want is fine particles, you will be surprised at how soft it feels in a second.


5. Once it seems all sifted, take a look  See if there are any large clumps of peat that stuck together from making the bale you got it in (if u did).  There will be a lot of bark and sticks too, but you should be able to tell the difference (below picture).  I just break up the big clumps and sift a bit longer.  When I'm done, i put the bark/sticks, etc aside (below picture).  You can use them for edible grows, outdoor stuff, orchid mixes, etc.  no need to waste it.


When you buy jiffy mix, part of the premium price you pay is that it is sifted for the most part.  I used to get the small bags of miracle grow peat, and there were only ever a few sticks.  if your peat doesn't have many sticks u can skip this.  And technically, u can skip it even if u have a lot of sticks.  its just a safer bet to sift IME.  The large $10 bales will always have sticks, its just the downside of buying in bulk in this case.
Sift until u see about 5-6 qts worth.  it will be nice and soft.  you will want to lay in it naked, but wait, you didn't sift that much did you?!?


6. Adding the rest of the mix. 
A traditional casing mix for cubensis would be 50% peat, and 50% verm with a buffer.  After trying that for a while, i ended up liking a high ratio of peat.
Verm may hold more water than peat up front, but IME, peat is able to RETAIN it for longer.  When I think about casing ingredients, i think that water retention is a top priority.  It doesn't matter to me if verm can hold 3x more water than peat if it loses it 3x faster.  Maybe others have had different experiences with it, but that is my 2 cents on it. 
Limestone is added to increase the Ph of the casing.  It is more of a long term buffer than a quick acting one, but it is still capable of a couple points up front.  That is good enough for me.  A traditional recipe calls for about a 10% addition to the casing.
Perlite is added to increase aeration and create a sort of bumpy-ness i think helps growth.
Hydrated Lime is added to immediately boost the Ph of the casing.  It is VERY strong.  Please wear gloves when handling, and mixing casings with this stuff.  I have never felt more acute stomach pain in my life.  PLEASE, wash your hands after using hydrated lime. (not pictured below)



7.  Mix the ingredients dry.


8. Bring to field capacity.  I have no pictures of this, and I don't have a measurement.  i do this all by eyeballing.  Add water slowly, its probably about 2 qts for the above recipe, maybe a little more if u used fine vermiculite, or a higher ratio of vermiculite.  in time, u will learn it well, and exact measurements will elude you too

9. Load into bags/jars for Proper pasteurization. 
I use bags, and as u can see, i use them quite a bit.  Jar I think heat up faster, i just don't have any extra on hand, and bags make it easy to do 1 bag>1 tub.  I split this btw the bags, each one getting 2.5-3 qts, or whatever u end up with.


10. Load into PC before the water.


11. Add the water.  I add it up to basically as high as i can w/o the bags floating.  maybe 3/4 the way up??  i dunno man, u'll figure it out


12. Tie the bags.  I use a kinda tight rubber band (zip ties work too).  i bring it to the top-ish of substrate, but i don't try to get the air out or anything.  if there was more in the bag, that would be a good idea though.  Then i insert thermometer into center of one bag thru the top, and look at temp.  I used room tempish water when i saturated the casing, but u could use hotter water.


13. Put PC/pot lid on.  turn stove on high.  keep an eye till it boils


14. When the water starts boiling rapidly, i turn down the flame. (no picture, my bad)  i know its the center of the substrate that matters, but in this particular TEK, I'm shooting for a shorter pasteurization time at a lower "exterior temp" because i want to preserve as much of peats microbial community as I can.  The goal here is to kill off any common competitor mold spores that got in at harvest, packaging, in my basement, etc. 
here is a short abstract about kill times for common molds.  shout out to kizzle for finding this.
My goal is to get to 140, and turn timer on for a half an hour.


15.  If you have your pasteurization game down, then u will know ur stove and all that.  This time, my temp started at 81.  I turned it down once it was rapidly boiling to low, then I turned it off at 99.  If i had more casing/substrate in the bag, the times would be different, and you will figure ur own scheme out after a few tries.


16. If the temps are climbing to fast, ill either hitch the lid a little, or completely take it off to slow down the thermal momentum.


17. CLEAN UP.  I'm adding this in here because I'm coming to realize how important this really is.  we are all growing mushrooms indoors for God's sakes, keep your place CLEAN.  i can't even really explain how disgusting my last place was.  a combination of sheer laziness, pets, smokers, party's, bulk ingredients, etc made it pretty bad.  i know there is no way to link a dirty environment with high risk of contamination, but i personally think there is a correlation.  its not necessarily that ur fruiting tubs are exposed to more mold spores, its that ur whole house eventually becomes more mold ridden than it should be.  this can get in ur SAB, ur tools, ur jar rims, in the eddies of ur flow hood.  the chances of getting into ur spawn are then greater.  this isn't about fruiting in a sterile or super clean place, thats obviously not necessary.  its about keeping ur shit straight, knowing how to stay organized, and making sure ur not a dirt ball in general. live simply and know what mold vectors are and address them.  I think it will help both you and your grows, my :2cents:


18.  When the 30 minute timer is up, sometimes I'm looking at 150f, sometimes 160f, sometimes 145f.  Its all good:thumbup:
You can choose to do 60 minutes if u like, i know i did for a while.  whatever gives u peace of mind, go for it.  just stay on the lower end of the temps if possible.

19.  I let it cool.  When 30 minute timer is up, i take the lid off (if its not already) and move the rubber band up, ABOVE the filter, and fold over the top of the bag, securing it with the rubber band. 

I've let peat sit for a while, 10 days or so, and still used it with GREAT success.  It's not like substrates, where the nutrients can get eaten up.  Today, ill be letting it cool overnight to use tomorrow.  any additional time spent btw pasteurizing and using is time that the microbial population can build up, and thats ok.  Don't get too carried away, I'm just saying, its all good.  pasteurize a few tubs worth if u got the day off.  keep it on the shelf.  it will be ok.

Please note, there are a lot of ways to pasteurize.  I've done peat in the oven, and i've limed it, no heat, with success.  For me, this is the way i prefer to treat peat based casings, but there are many other ways.  I think the combination of me sifting the sticks out, ensuring proper airflow in the tub, and the reduced heat treatment, is a big reason why i have not had problems with peat casings.  The reason why it still works w/o the hydrated lime is because the microbial population is present enough to ward off any bad guys.  When peat is sterilized, this population is virtually eliminated, and leaves the peat open for competitors.  When peat is pasteurized with boiling water for a long duration, this population is also theoretically decreased.  This is why i lower my heat, and reduce the length of the run.  I do not do this for substrates like poo/straw/etc. 
If you choose to use a dash of hydrated lime, ur chances for success, IME, are even higher.
again, i want to add that i do use hydrated lime regularly.  about 1 teaspoon per tub mix.  this specific recipe and example (and the ones pictured soon) are just examples of peat being used successfully without hydrated lime, in an effort to (hopefully) help people feel more safe in using this casing.  also the addition of an extra 30 minutes of pasteurization time should help keep u sane until u get used to peat.

Again, i want to say, this is not a comparison thread.  i also use coir as a "casing" but i apply it at a different time, and only in specific situations (mainly when i use a lot of straw in a tub).  peat is something i use on poo/straw mixes (where poo is main ingredient), CVG tubs, and coir/straw tubs, because IME, it give me more reliable results in those situations.

next step will be applying the casing layer, and determining when to fruit it (coming soon)

APPLYING THE PEAT

(sorry these pics are sideways :frown:  I'm not used to uploading this many at once, forgot to check orientation)

Now that your peat has had time to cool overnight, or even a few hours, its time to apply.  Lets take a good look at our tubs.  we don't wanna case them if they aren't healthy.
AA+ on CVG with amendments (I'm using CVG for this example because i know thats the substrate of choice these days.  in general, i would use straw/poo)



notice there is no variation in the texture of the mycelium.  this is very important, especially when using CVG.  with other substrates, variances can occur, but only slightly.  Hopefuly, ill address that in another write up on how i prep substrates.  point is, with experience, you will just know by looking at a colonized tub if your spawn was top notch or not.

!. DUMP the whole bag onto the top of substrate.


2. SPREAD it out evenly.  this amount of peat looks to be about a 1/2".  u can choose to do less, this is just what i ended up with.  like i said before, all my tubs are slightly different…..sorry :shrug:


3. Now, I take some of the excess thats in the middle of the tubs, and push it to two opposite corners of the tub.  This is so later, when i introduce to fruiting conditions, i can use that to patch, and i don't have to keep any back in the bag.  u can either keep some back in the bag/jars, or u can do this, OR u can just not patch.  up to you, but IME, patching is worth it usually, ESPECIALLY with thinner casings (and yes, i know, this is not a thin casing :P )


4. I use four top holes on my tubs, and 4 bottom holes, all of them are 1 3/8".  its basically standard set up, as per Frank, but i add two top holes on the long sides at the top.  I don't necessarily use them all the time (for uncased tubs, i keep them taped thru harvest), but they are there if i need them.  After applying, i put the lid on, and plug up the two top holes on long sides with poly.  let her breath easy folks.  do you want to be trapped in a taped up tub??


5. Mark the date u cased, and the recipe u cased with (if it varies and u care about that variation), and put them back in ur stack.  NOW WE WAIT.

Examples of peat based casings w/o Verm or hydrated lime.

Penis Envy (straw poo substrates)



two of them have an uneven pin set, thats cause they are closest to the part of the wall my window AC hits.  make sure you know how to identify variations in pin sets and address them quickly and appropriately.  we all have different conditions.  READ your mycelium.  LEARN from it.  its telling you a story everyday.
PE usually takes over the casing for me before fruiting.  thats an anomaly IME.  here is a tub of a wild cubensis "TMF".  u can see the casing is not colonized completely.  To me, this is important.  i don't like when that happens (hence why i tend to like peat over coir in most circumstances).  Yes, the fruits are spindly.  this variety gave me some trouble.


Here is another PE.  this one has almost an identical recipe as posted for the casing.  substrate is short composted straw/poo.


Hopefully this helps.  ill update the TEK with the AA+ grows.  hopefully u learned a little something even if u don't case, or don't want to use peat.  I always like to try things out for myself.  trust issues, ya dig :shrug:

Edit: Because of peats ability to be stored for longer than pasteurized, nutritional substrate, if you end up going for an hour, or to 160 for a while its ok.  Since u will be storing this on a shelf/tote before use, as long as a small % of the microbial population was preserved, it will spread as time goes on.  Since this situation called for me using the casing same/next day, i wanted to keep the temp low, since there would be no "shelf time" for that population to increase.
There have been many times when my peat hit 180.  oh shit, WTF did i DOOOOO!! but, being me and working a lot, i used it anyway with success.  i can only assume it was the hydrated lime that helped in these instances.  so again, peat is more flexible than u might think with proper conditions in your tub and a strong buffering agent.  but to be safe, and what I do these days, is to follow what is outlined above, so your peat casing becomes more of a control than a variable

Also, keep in mind, i am not a scientist, a biologist, a micro biologist, i don't even have a college degree man.  This TEK is primarily informed by my experiences with peat as a casing over the past 1.5 years, and a lot of reading and talking to other growers, gardeners, farmers, etc.  So take the microbe thing with a grain of salt, but i hope you see the logic behind it.


Edited by blindingleaf (02/12/16 12:08 AM)


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OfflinecronicrMFacebook
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Re: Peat [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22093260 - 08/14/15 11:38 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Another top notch post...hats off my friend


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Peat [Re: cronicr]
    #22093556 - 08/15/15 02:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Awesome stuff leaf, you're a rock star! :rockon:


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InvisibleGrey
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Re: Peat [Re: spacechildo]
    #22093632 - 08/15/15 02:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Where's your tag?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Peat [Re: Grey]
    #22093689 - 08/15/15 03:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Grey said:
Where's your tag?




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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Peat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22093903 - 08/15/15 05:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yep that's a fine write up right there. A fine write up. Might do me some peat casing now, been a while.

:raisemyglass:


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Re: Peat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22093921 - 08/15/15 05:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

Grey said:
Where's your tag?







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Invisibled0urd3n
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Re: Peat [Re: taGyo]
    #22093975 - 08/15/15 05:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

BL is back at it. Right on brother. :cheers:


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Re: Peat [Re: d0urd3n]
    #22094063 - 08/15/15 05:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks guys.
Definitely give it a try.  Just figured a good write up for peat was overdue.  Coir also works well, but like I said, for me, it's specific situations that warrant it's use.
I'll try to write up something short about it and add it at bottom


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22094177 - 08/15/15 06:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Awesome TEK!

I'll be trying this this year or early next year when I get another monotub built and started.

Would this work for casing Pan Cyan's, Anyone know?


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Jsneeb]
    #22094204 - 08/15/15 06:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:rockon:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: TheMustardTiger]
    #22094264 - 08/15/15 06:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Well written and thorough.:thumbup:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: eatyualive]
    #22094283 - 08/15/15 07:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Very well done blindingleaf!

Thanks so much for your contribution, it will help a lot of people out.
I may even try peat again... I'd kind of given up on it because it was the one reliable source of contamination for me. I just use verm now and that works but I think peat holds water better and your point about the microbes is well taken.

:kaneclap:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Jsneeb]
    #22094346 - 08/15/15 07:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

thanks guys!

Quote:

Jsneeb said:
Awesome TEK!

I'll be trying this this year or early next year when I get another monotub built and started.

Would this work for casing Pan Cyan's, Anyone know?




thanks! Yes, it will be perfect for pans.  check here in "my favorite grows" and the Pans were all done with peat casing.  many others on that page are too, i usually mention it before the picture.

Updating the OP with this:


^^thats the gypsum i get.  $7.00/50 lbs.  already ground.  yes, i have used the pelletized stuff, and it works fine.  but u can't beat that deal, and when it comes powdered, its one less step IMO.


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Edited by blindingleaf (08/15/15 08:45 PM)


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Invisibled0urd3n
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22094362 - 08/15/15 07:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Can I get that at like Home Depot?


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: d0urd3n]
    #22094384 - 08/15/15 07:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

not sure, might be based on region.
i know i always say this, but seriously, everyone, go talk to a local farmer.  he will have good advice on bulk ingredients.  he can either (at least IME) add what u want to his order, or just sell u any extra he has.  thats who i get my Rye, poo, straw, and gypsum from.  For me, sourcing locally is important.  Also, the local farming community is usually awesome.  some great dudes who are very wise.  I have helped at many a farm for extra cash or just produce trade.  you will have fun, get ur hands dirty, enjoy the outdoors, and make some connections.  Local is where its at.

if all else fails, i would recommend getting the limestone powder i pictured above.  its a 40lb bag ($10 or LESS), its ALWAYS at home depot or lowes, and serves almost exactly the same purpose.  you want the one that is powdered, so feel the bag before u buy it.  it should not feel like pellets.  u can add that to ur grains, ur bucket TEK, ur casings, ur poo, etc.  its a great thing to have on hand if gypsum is hard to come by


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22094401 - 08/15/15 07:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

if you live in a city, see if there are community gardens, or guerrilla gardens in abandoned lots.  those people are great to know as well, and sometimes have hook ups u might be interested in.  even if not, its a great thing to get involved with, especially if u are in a bad part of the city.  community is an important thing in the ghetto.  marshall law ain't no joke w/ little to no police presence, so its up to you and ur neighbors to stay tight:thumbup:

its no fun to have a one person block party.  and who are u gonna run thru the fire hydrant sprinklers with?!?!


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22094407 - 08/15/15 07:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Very nice write up.... thanks!

I have noticed that when using the Jiffy mix that has the added hydrated lime buffer it seems to work ok without adding extra Hydrated-Pickling Lime .... but there have been a few times I added a tablespoon in with it to help with ph.

I have also added a little gypsum and sometimes a fairly small amount of crushed garden lime to help keep it stabilize....

At any rate... One Hell of a GREAT Write-Up man!!!! Thank you for taking the time!!.....:rockon:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #22094415 - 08/15/15 07:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

thanks man!  yea the premixes are great for sure!  this is just an alternative for hard headed people like me :facepalm:

but also, a good idea if one plans to stay in this hobby long term.  its a good skill to have.

i have Ph strips, but i don't use them that often.  sometimes when i prep straw i will though.

make sure ur careful with hydrated lime, its not only caustic, but will do a number on ur stomach if accidentally ingested.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22094433 - 08/15/15 07:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
thanks man!  yea the premixes are great for sure!  this is just an alternative for hard headed people like me :facepalm:

but also, a good idea if one plans to stay in this hobby long term.  its a good skill to have.

i have Ph strips, but i don't use them that often.  sometimes when i prep straw i will though.

make sure ur careful with hydrated lime, its not only caustic, but will do a number on ur stomach if accidentally ingested.




Oh I hear about the HL brother...lol. And it doesn't take much either. I have a fairly decent PH meter since I am also a certified advanced Master Gardener. The meter comes in real handy when working with peat casings that may require some adjustment. Hell, it also nice to just check manure based subs, etc. just to see what the PH actually is....  :mushroom2:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: FreeWorldOrder] * 1
    #22094457 - 08/15/15 08:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

oh nice dude!!
sounds cool.  i've always read meters were not as reliable as strips, maybe you could explain why, i've never asked someone IRL about that.  what kind of brand are u using?


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22094540 - 08/15/15 08:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
oh nice dude!!
sounds cool.  i've always read meters were not as reliable as strips, maybe you could explain why, i've never asked someone IRL about that.  what kind of brand are u using?




Actually you are right about strips being good.

As far as testers go, you don't want the ones that test all sorts of shit...like the 4-in-1.... 5-in-1....etc. But a PH meter that ONLY test for PH. The reason being is that the multy tested have the graph that you read wherever the pointer goes. This alone will obviosly not be accurate, and only giving the user a very basic idea. The one I am going to picture reads only PH. So it is calibrated as such, without all the other stuff.

They key to using this tested is to have the substrate, casing, whatever you are testing at field capacity when you do the reading. If it is dry the tester will not read. This goes the same as when measuring soils, and soil-less mixes for plants.

Another thing to take into consideration is the fact all well water, city, water, bottled water all has a varied PH as well. So when using this type of meter, the casing, or sub materials need to be mixed very well with the water you are using and let it sit for awhile....

But so far, this $12 tester has worked great and proven itself time and again....:thumbup:



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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #22095335 - 08/16/15 12:44 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:uptosomething:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: cronicr]
    #22096900 - 08/16/15 08:19 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Very well done write-up blindingleaf.  :smile: 

A quick question for you.  Why do you use the hydrated lime?  The additional hazards of working with it have never been very enticing to me. It seems to me that you already accomplish your buffering needs with the powdered limestone. 

Thanks for offering such clear directions for this casing tek.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Alkaloids]
    #22096916 - 08/16/15 08:24 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Lime might seem like overkill but given that the only time I ever case cubes with peat is for PE or APE, I like having a few more days on my side. Hydrated lime is something I like to have in the mix. But I have made peat work without it as well.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22097114 - 08/16/15 09:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Nice write up!
When I don't use cactus or Jiffy mix (usually have extra of these laying around as leftover
from planting) I do use the Lambert peat moss, it's great quality.
If you have the space - I do have a 3 car garage - it's a great deal to buy the 3 cu ft bag.
I also have a 4 cu ft bag of vermiculite right next to it. I've been using both of these for well
over a year and still got some.
Just found a picture, it's in the bottom left corner...



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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: stonesun]
    #22097490 - 08/16/15 12:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alkaloids said:
Very well done write-up blindingleaf.  :smile: 

A quick question for you.  Why do you use the hydrated lime?  The additional hazards of working with it have never been very enticing to me. It seems to me that you already accomplish your buffering needs with the powdered limestone. 

Thanks for offering such clear directions for this casing tek.




thanks man!  its just for some added protection really.

Quote:

stonesun said:
Nice write up!
When I don't use cactus or Jiffy mix (usually have extra of these laying around as leftover
from planting) I do use the Lambert peat moss, it's great quality.
If you have the space - I do have a 3 car garage - it's a great deal to buy the 3 cu ft bag.
I also have a 4 cu ft bag of vermiculite right next to it. I've been using both of these for well
over a year and still got some.
Just found a picture, it's in the bottom left corner...






that means a lot coming from you man, thank you.

there ya go folks, "lambert" peat is just fine!! 


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22099108 - 08/17/15 12:09 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:bump2:
going to follow your process today to case some woodlovers


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: cronicr]
    #22099116 - 08/17/15 12:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

cool!  i cased my gyms with this.
good luck!


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22099120 - 08/17/15 12:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i'm casing ovoids and allenii:super: lost my cyans and azurs though...sat for too long i guess


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: cronicr]
    #22099142 - 08/17/15 12:17 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

nice!
keep us updated!

i've been losing a battle with moldy pan cyan cultures since june :facepalm:
think i got it going well on grains now though.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22099156 - 08/17/15 12:20 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i always have a hard time growing in the summer:shrug: mind you it gets way too hot here and i get crabby and my technique tends to go out the window:lol:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: cronicr]
    #22099173 - 08/17/15 12:25 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

yea, its tough.  i rely on window AC unit, but then that fucks up Rh of room, so its balance for sure.  I'm ok with the results so far, so i think i might just take the hit with the dryness for a few more weeks till fall rather then re arranging everything, because (knock on wood) my contam rate is low, fruiting wise.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22099259 - 08/17/15 12:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

BL did you just recently case gyms? Or was this in the past? Grown gyms much?

Stonesun he said he saw no difference between casing and not casing gyms. I have only grown them uncased.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: d0urd3n]
    #22099276 - 08/17/15 12:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

yea, i always case gyms.  i saw stone suns comparison, i personally thought his grow that was cased did better, not sure what his take on it now is.

this was my last grow, but it was at the last place i lived, and in btw moving, i couldn't mist so they all aborted.  it was an open air bucket.


in "my favorite grows" link, u can see the gyms i did
this is after some harvest, pics all over the place.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22099288 - 08/17/15 01:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

all of the times i grew gymnopolis was all from stone suns prints too:thumbup:
i have a jar kicking around thats been 100% for almost a month now at room temp.
maybe ill do something with it.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22099359 - 08/17/15 01:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
yea, i always case gyms.  i saw stone suns comparison, i personally thought his grow that was cased did better, not sure what his take on it now is.

this was my last grow, but it was at the last place i lived, and in btw moving, i couldn't mist so they all aborted.  it was an open air bucket.


in "my favorite grows" link, u can see the gyms i did
this is after some harvest, pics all over the place.






:wizard:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22100485 - 08/17/15 06:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Just visited bl and saw this in action. He's a wizard! :smile: :hatsoff:

I think I'll give casing a try now. Results speak for themselves.

Taught me a lot. Thank you!


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: filthyknees]
    #22100496 - 08/17/15 06:23 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

u can come back and visit any time dude :thumbup:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22100517 - 08/17/15 06:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:rockon:

Wish I could hang out with you two.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: d0urd3n]
    #22100520 - 08/17/15 06:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

we drank some IPA's from bodhisatta, it was fun.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22100537 - 08/17/15 06:34 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

What? Bodh mailed you his beer??


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: d0urd3n]
    #22100551 - 08/17/15 06:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

haha yea.  it was his part of the trade.  I'm not used to pounders with that ABV though, so i got pretty shitty last night.
he is a good dude, but please don't PM him with trade offers to those reading.  that would drive any man insane I'm sure.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22100578 - 08/17/15 06:52 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:lol: probably too late for that


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Mdahmer]
    #22100587 - 08/17/15 06:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i meant to say he sent me tainted beer and I'm stick to my stomach, and filthyknees just puked in the subway!!  don't PM bod for beer, its tainted!!
:rofl:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22100651 - 08/17/15 07:17 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

idleness is the holiday of fools BL. get your life together.

oh yea nice tek by the way, i like it. you wrote it the way i think about cultivation. a little of this, some of that if you want. its not set in stone just a good outline and a bunch of info there for the plucking as one see's fit. good job man :noargument:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Mdahmer]
    #22100669 - 08/17/15 07:23 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

thanks bro.  that just how i approach it.  after so long, some measurements become engrained or whatever.  u just kinda know cause u did it before.
i dont test this or that on purpose, but after a while i see patterns.
if i did measure exactly all the time, no doubt those patterns would have become apparent faster.  but…i just didn't do that i guess.  maybe what took me 1.5 years could take another person 1 month.  thats cool too. 
its just how i grow these days.  a little of this, some of that.  oh wait, no more poo?  ok, so lets add more straw i guess.  wait, thats too much.  ahhh fuck it, ill put it outside if i can't it in in the tub.
works well for me :shrug:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22100756 - 08/17/15 07:43 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Hey man, nice write up. Just like buddy said it has this and that,you keep it open minded but emphasize what should be done and suggest experimenting with different tried and trues. I also like pictures and examples of other grows.
  I had a few basic questions, what kind of bags and thermometer are you using? I've seen ones you stick into food thats digital but never spied one that had the cord.


Edited by abductee (08/17/15 07:45 AM)


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22100792 - 08/17/15 07:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I guess it gets like cooking, you know your recipe.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22100829 - 08/17/15 07:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

u can use the analogue ones too, i use those for straw


check amazon, i think thats where i got mine.

any bag ok.  baking bags (like for turkeys in the grocery store), even zip locks are OK.  the ones pictured are filter patch bags.  i use them for grain spawn too, so after i dump spawn out, i reuse it a few more times to pasteurize.  but, they are expensive unless u buy in bulk, so any old bag is usually ok.
jars are ok too, i should have done some pics with them i guess.  but u would do it same way.  jars are quicker to heat up IMO, but at the bag fill level pictured in the OP, its about same times


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22101407 - 08/17/15 12:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

k cool.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22101617 - 08/17/15 03:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

9+% abv in 16oz cans that's equivalent to about 4 cans of 3.2% 12oz domestic like bud


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22102479 - 08/17/15 08:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Hey man, i'm super tired and read the tek a couple times and skimmed it a few.. If I buy the jiffy mix  do I omit the limestone,hydrated lime and gypsum?


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22102486 - 08/17/15 08:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

abductee said:
Hey man, i'm super tired and read the tek a couple times and skimmed it a few.. If I buy the jiffy mix  do I omit the limestone,hydrated lime and gypsum?



Use this for Jiffy:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18880716#18880716

BL is using a different method :thumbup:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: taGyo]
    #22102534 - 08/17/15 09:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Ill check it out..im on a bike and even with saddle bags my load will be full.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22102552 - 08/17/15 09:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

ouch!  i don't have a car either man, i feel you.  jiffy is back packable :thumbup:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22102599 - 08/17/15 09:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

yeah a cop told me my license expired :woah:, the bike has been good all summer so far.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22102801 - 08/17/15 10:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Nice write up! I would say this though. I recommend working with the peat outside until you have it hydrated. Some of these bales are dried out pretty good and the peat can be dusty as fuck! Even scooping it out of the bag and into a bucket can dirty up your kitchen something fierce if it's a very dry bag of peat.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Juiceh]
    #22102994 - 08/17/15 11:26 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I went to Canadian tire and Wal-Mart and they didn't have what's needed..next time im going to call ahead. I probably have 3 or 4 days tI'll I need casing...so, no rush. I got wbs anf a new scalpel though :laugh:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22103031 - 08/17/15 11:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

its getting late in the year, so bales might be hard to come by.  HD or lwoes or any regional garden store would still have them i bet though.
i wouldn't go the whole bale route until u know u really like peat though.  jiffy is a great starter.  and coir works well too. 

i just got some WBS myself :hehehe:  I'm usually a rye guy.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22103094 - 08/18/15 12:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
its getting late in the year, so bales might be hard to come by.



Yeah, I had trouble finding some late in the season last year. One place I found had some but wouldn't\couldn't sell me any because all the bales were frozen together on a pallet! I eventually found enough to get me through the winter, but I'm about to start stocking up for this winter so that doesn't happen again!


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Juiceh]
    #22103198 - 08/18/15 12:26 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I started with rye and just liked working with it better,doesnt get everywhere.. but the best results i've had was with wbs (no contams,fast colonization), I think that's just what i've been using while my skills and cultures have gotten better. :laugh: but now I dont mind working with wbs.. Its been working for me so i'll going to stick with it a little bit, maybe i'll try rye again in the near future.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22103216 - 08/18/15 12:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

canadian tire had peat, but no hydrated lime. they had gypsum and perelite. I should have grabbed the gypsum, but I was going to walmart and thought they would have it, so I didnt want to bike there with the extra weight, but walmart didnt have gypsum.. lol I've been using my mortar and pestle to crush this piece of drywall. it works but i''d love to go through a recipe without sitting their crossed legged peeling and grounding away.lol 

sorry, this recipe doesn't call for it, but I did see it some where and it caught my eye. I have verm.

What coir casing would you suggest?


Edited by abductee (08/18/15 12:35 AM)


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22103249 - 08/18/15 12:40 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

yea, i used to do the dry wall thing too.  and chalk board chalk.

if i case with coir, i do it at spawning and mainly with straw only tubs, not after 100% colonization like i would with Peat.  but i fruit it around 30% and patch it.  same standard CVG bucket TEK.  sometimes i don't add verm, but i think it helps to.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22103271 - 08/18/15 12:46 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i think pasty and muda have some better ideas with coir casing that u would apply after colonization.  i think they use room temp water to hydrate the brick, making it harder for the myc to eat.  IME, coir is finicky, and from what i have seen, works best when the substrate itself is not composed of coir.
but then u can look at Franks grows, and he blows it out of the water every time, so i could just suck at using coir casings too :shrug:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22103308 - 08/18/15 12:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Alright.. i think i'll just find the jiffy mix for now, but I also like doing things from scratch so i'll definitely be trying this tek next if not first. Ive looked through some of franks teks and others they are all well write and show great results..  I'm still looking for pins morning and night. ( ok I peak throughout the day and just check it out )


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22103320 - 08/18/15 12:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

"a watched pot never boils" :hehehe:

nah, i used to do that too.  coir casing can work great.  i just prefer peat in most cases (haha get it?!?!)


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22103387 - 08/18/15 01:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Nice mushrooms! Some of those colours and and dots ( forget the name) are fucken beautiful. Nice tubs, I'd work with straw, Nothing like a nice groomed bulk sub.
I spawned this to bulk on saturday


Here's the shoebox mono


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22103401 - 08/18/15 01:20 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

abductee said:
Here's the shoebox mono




I think I see a questionable spot by the polyfil on the right side of the pic. :frown:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Juiceh]
    #22103740 - 08/18/15 02:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The back of my knuckles smudge the top while putting in my poly, I'm pretty sure it's that cause I was like fuck, it's smudged.lol I thought oh oh, but figured it won't ruin it and I hoped it would grow over.
  Good eye :jah:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22103754 - 08/18/15 02:51 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i don't see anything to wrry about yet.

but next time, stuff ur holes from the outside.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22103769 - 08/18/15 02:54 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I think I squeezed it to see how tight it is. Is that how you see how tight it is?


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22103780 - 08/18/15 02:58 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

well TBH, i just got a new kind of poly that seems thicker, so I'm a little lost myself.  cheap shit online, ya know?

if i case, its way more lenient.  if i accidentally stuff to loose, it really doesn't matter cause the casing is protecting the substrate.
but, i try to stuff ALMOST as tight as possible i'd say.  then over the next 2 days, i check the evap lines.  i want anywhere from 1/2"-1" along the bottom ones.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22103804 - 08/18/15 03:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

it really comes down to reading ur tubs.  after a while, its easy.

some people want to think mushrooms are computers, and thats cool.  whatever makes u happy i guess.  but i don't think one solution will help all of us.  i have a window AC unit right now.  in 3-4 weeks, it will be off.  that means i have to re-dial the room back in.  if a mushroom was a computer, it could re-dial itself in.  but, i've never personally seen that, although a few members on the boards think they can manage a mono tub like that.

we'll see.  i don't have high hopes for that kind of mentality or set up though, no offense to those people.
i would use a green house if i wanted complete ACTIVE control.  this is a passive system.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22103834 - 08/18/15 03:12 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yea, in between post I was thinking it comes down to your conditions and tub,bulk sub,casings ect..


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22103843 - 08/18/15 03:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

yea.  a lot of variables.
frank showed us the way though for the most part.
his grow logs are hands down a go-to for me.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22103949 - 08/18/15 03:42 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't read all this, but one thing I do differently is to use some bands to keep sub depth even. Lay down as many as you need, dump some casing in there, then level it all with the bands, using a ruler or something. Easy as fuck and makes it level and the perfect depth (for Cubensis anyway) every time.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #22103972 - 08/18/15 03:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

yea, i remember u posting that a few months back.
thanks for the tip bro.  i generally just use the bottom holes as a guide, but i can see where that can help.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22103978 - 08/18/15 03:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
i think pasty and muda have some better ideas with coir casing that u would apply after colonization.  i think they use room temp water to hydrate the brick, making it harder for the myc to eat.  IME, coir is finicky, and from what i have seen, works best when the substrate itself is not composed of coir.
but then u can look at Franks grows, and he blows it out of the water every time, so i could just suck at using coir casings too :shrug:



What ratio of coir to verm were You using? It treats me well with a 50/50 ratio of each. Cvg or other substrates.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: eatyualive]
    #22103996 - 08/18/15 03:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i just use dam ion TEK i think.  1 brick, 2 qts, 4-5 qts water.  depending on how the brick itself feels, i change water.  sometimes its SUPER compact, so i add 5 qts.  sometimes, seems like humidity in shiping/storing made it expand just a little, so ill do 4.5 qts.

but i only use coir "casing" at spawning.  i don't ever do it after 100%.
its basically a top layer if my tub is all/mostly straw.  but i make it thick, at least 1/2" (usually more)
i want it thick so it doesn't colonize before/same time as substrate below.  straw runs FAST, as I'm sure u know eat cause u use it too, so if its a thin layer, it will act more as a substrate than a casing.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: eatyualive]
    #22104034 - 08/18/15 04:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eatyualive said:
Quote:

blindingleaf said:
i think pasty and muda have some better ideas with coir casing that u would apply after colonization.  i think they use room temp water to hydrate the brick, making it harder for the myc to eat.  IME, coir is finicky, and from what i have seen, works best when the substrate itself is not composed of coir.
but then u can look at Franks grows, and he blows it out of the water every time, so i could just suck at using coir casings too :shrug:



What ratio of coir to verm were You using? It treats me well with a 50/50 ratio of each. Cvg or other substrates.



You know what's cool about you Eat? You ask a lot of questions about different methods even though you have yours down pact and can grow your ass off.

Respect.

:thumbup:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: taGyo]
    #22104042 - 08/18/15 04:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

eat is the shit, no question.  he has done it all:mushroom2:

i don't have the balls to grow like him.  that takes guts, and some nuts too lol :crazy2:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22104048 - 08/18/15 04:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Just something i wanted to touch on quick. I actually cook my coir based casing because I do like some colonization, I just make sure my temp doesn't exceed 140 and I only do it for 30-45min. This will kill off any trich and cook it just enough to allow for some light colonization without risking the myc just blowing through it.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22104053 - 08/18/15 04:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

^^^there u go folks!!    damn canadians don't even use their own peat moss.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22104407 - 08/18/15 05:41 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
^^^there u go folks!!    damn canadians don't even use their own peat moss.



:rofl2:

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
i just use dam ion TEK i think.  1 brick, 2 qts, 4-5 qts water.  depending on how the brick itself feels, i change water.  sometimes its SUPER compact, so i add 5 qts.  sometimes, seems like humidity in shiping/storing made it expand just a little, so ill do 4.5 qts.

but i only use coir "casing" at spawning.  i don't ever do it after 100%.
its basically a top layer if my tub is all/mostly straw.  but i make it thick, at least 1/2" (usually more)
i want it thick so it doesn't colonize before/same time as substrate below.  straw runs FAST, as I'm sure u know eat cause u use it too, so if its a thin layer, it will act more as a substrate than a casing.



ha ion tek. been a long time since ive heard that.
nice. i was running some subs for about 6 months using that method. i still need to post that thread. it gives me fruits from spawn in 12-13 days. pinsets are always extremely dense but my fruits turn out smaller when i do the top layer method with the sub on top with 1/4" casing.

exactly. if i use 1/4" depth. my fruits are wimpy. it takes 1/3"-1/2" to get fatties. which will add a day or two to the 12-13 days from pin to fruit. but its a fun method. it does add time during spawning though.

yes my average spawn run is 3 days from pelleted wheat straw/coir/verm/gypsum ect. i also think wbs grain helps the speed with more inoculation points during spawn run. but i just did some pe, peu, ape tubs all 3 days to colonize! (wasn't saying nothing about fruiting that is another story) :super:








Edited by eatyualive (08/18/15 05:52 AM)


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22104419 - 08/18/15 05:44 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
^^^there u go folks!!    damn canadians don't even use their own peat moss.



nope we are rocking coir and we don't even grow coconuts:facepalm:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: cronicr]
    #22104487 - 08/18/15 05:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

if i use 1/4" depth. my fruits are wimpy. it takes 1/3"-1/2" to get fatties. which will add a day or two to the 12-13 days from pin to fruit. but its a fun method. it does add time during spawning though.





^^to any readers, this is actually really important to consider.
in the OP i wrote, u can see i used a thicker casing.  i should b patching it today, but I'm not :frown:  that was my mistake for not really measuring.  BUT, i think a thicker casing can have results a thin casing might not.



Quote:

cronicr said:
Quote:

blindingleaf said:
^^^there u go folks!!    damn canadians don't even use their own peat moss.



nope we are rocking coir and we don't even grow coconuts:facepalm:




I'm just busting ur balls.
we don't make coir in US either.  thats why i likes my straw and poo:heart:  keep that shit local. 


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Edited by blindingleaf (08/18/15 12:27 PM)


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22105238 - 08/18/15 11:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:takingnotes:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22105328 - 08/18/15 01:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

ill throw some pics up of the AA+ tubs later.  the casing was thick, so its only breaching in a spot or two.  also going to be casing a spawn bag with limed peat, no heat, again just to show that it can be done


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22105892 - 08/18/15 06:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Interesting you use peat, mate. I've always used a fine layer of peat on top of my seed trays. This prevents "damp off," which happens when the dicots break the surface but before they develop true leaves. Damp off is caused by bacteria in soil. Peat was also used in WWI to pack wounds. Peat contains anti-bacterials, obviously, which were helpful in preventing infection before the invention of penicillin.

So this brings up an obvious question. What use is this information? Myc is unaffected by anti-bacterials? has anyone done a study on this?

Suddenly this hobby got a whole 'nother level deeper for me. Not that I'm going there. Nuh uh. But it sure is cool to realize how much more I've got to learn. Thanks for the cool tek.

:smile:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #22105939 - 08/18/15 06:38 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

well, I'm no soil scientist, but i believe that there are actually beneficial bacteria in peat, not necessarily "anti-bacterials", unless I'm misunderstanding what u mean by that.

ill try to find it, but i read an awesome article about button growers using peat, and when left untreated, the beneficial bacteria in it helped reduce food borne illnesses caused by e coli and another one i can't remember that would have otherwise proliferated in the casing, and therefore, were more likely to end up on the fruit bodies come harvest time.

since this TEK is for indoor growing, primarily in tubs (although i will post a bag pic here by tonight), its a good idea to pasteurize it lightly.  a mono tub, even with holes, has NO WHERE near the amount of fresh air that large beds on button farms get, so we want to try and kill off any competitor molds that may have landed in the peat during harvest, shipping, receiving, and storing.  if u were to do peat casings outside, u could pull directly from the bag, just like doing outdoor manure beds.

myc is not really affected that much by common antibacterials, thats why many people use antibiotic agar.  but i guess it depends on the specific antibiotic, and what kind of ratio one is using it in.
until 5 days ago, i had no experience with antibiotic agar, never needed it.  then my neighbor gave me some.  small world, right?


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22106106 - 08/18/15 07:28 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

alright, so here is an example of liming peat with no heat treatment.  this is only my third time doing this, so bare with me.  I'm using pretty much same recipe as in OP, but I'm adding lime to the water before hydrating the peat.
in this case, i used 1/2 TEASPOON per liter of water.  brought the Ph HIGH, as u can see.


applied thick, around 1".  i folded bag over loosely, and applied scotch tape.  then i wrapped the majority of the bag in tin foil to block light.
BUT WAIT, LIGHT DOESNT CAUSE SIDE PINS!!!
although I'm not entirely convinced of that theory, all i will say is…light sure as hell doesn't prevent side pins either :wink:


now we wait again.

im incubating this is a non air conditioned room.  hopefully it pulls thru.  its about 80f.  i don't want to put it in AC room because i only put stuff i trust 100% up there.

once it breaks thru, i will patch, and fruit open air


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22106389 - 08/18/15 08:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

BL, I'm like you, a skeptic. Not that I need a whole lot of proof--Donald Trump is an idiot, and I got that right away--but I do need more than CW, commonly accepted wisdom. I'm not convinced about light, anyway. Why would something be phototropic without chlorophyll? Someone said that mushroom are more like us than plants. The only time I turn toward the sun is when I flip over and get the back side. So I'll wait further developments on the whole subject of light.

I stick by what I said, and you gave further proof. If myc is not affected that much by anti-bacterials, and does better (in some cases) with a peat substrate, and peat contains anti-bacterial properties, then it stands to reason that I'm correct. I know that it was used to pack wounds, and I know that it prevents damp off which is bacterial, so I believe I'm correct in assuming peat does a mushroom good. Now, to find out how much better and in what circumstances. That's the science that interests me.

I'm keep a close eye here, and in time I'll contribute what I find through my own tests.

Best wishes and continued success.:super:

:takingnotes:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #22106463 - 08/18/15 08:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i mean, i don't think light is #1 pinning trigger.  but i don't think its helpful to have light where u don't want pins.  I'm not trying to start shit though.  I'm like everyone else on here, i just know what i have seen and experienced.  i could be totally wrong (i have been wrong many many times).  i have changed my mind a million times about a million things since i started growing, and i don't expect that to change. 

but i don't want this to turn into another light thread lol.  i probably shouldn't have even said anything.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22106552 - 08/18/15 09:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, I can dig it and not going there. This should be about your peat testing, and I'm interested in that. Just saying that I'm a skeptic about stuff, too.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #22106563 - 08/18/15 09:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

word.  i like to try things out myself too instead of just taking the general consensus, so i feel where u are coming from.  the more we try new things, the more informed we become, and in general, the better growers we will be.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22106750 - 08/18/15 10:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

bookmarked!


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22106830 - 08/18/15 10:50 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

abductee said:
canadian tire had peat, but no hydrated lime. they had gypsum and perelite. I should have grabbed the gypsum, but I was going to walmart and thought they would have it, so I didnt want to bike there with the extra weight, but walmart didnt have gypsum.. lol I've been using my mortar and pestle to crush this piece of drywall. it works but i''d love to go through a recipe without sitting their crossed legged peeling and grounding away.lol 

sorry, this recipe doesn't call for it, but I did see it some where and it caught my eye. I have verm.

What coir casing would you suggest?




For hydrated lime, special order, from a Home Hardware store. Fast n cheap.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Green Bastard]
    #22106908 - 08/18/15 11:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

K thanks, I'll call a couple places.. I feel I'll need to case soon, and I want to case the next one.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22107007 - 08/18/15 11:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

well…i feel bad for making y'all wait cause i cased that shit thick…hope this pin porn helps tide u over :crazy2:  all cased with peat :wink:

MS AA+ (straw/poo), harvested two times.


a few PE grows coming along (straw/poo)


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22107094 - 08/19/15 12:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Damn, I think this is ready to case and i'm not. how long could I let the bulk sub colonize before putting to fruit. I'm thinking if pins start showing in colonizing then you should put it to fruit. So am I correct I can wait that long before casing? or if pins show its too late to case with peat?


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22107117 - 08/19/15 12:09 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

nice shrooms!


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22107180 - 08/19/15 12:23 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

abductee said:
Damn, I think this is ready to case and i'm not. how long could I let the bulk sub colonize before putting to fruit. I'm thinking if pins start showing in colonizing then you should put it to fruit. So am I correct I can wait that long before casing? or if pins show its too late to case with peat?





Awesome, bro! Worth a second look. Can't wait to see the fruits! You must be pretty happy.

:super:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #22107211 - 08/19/15 12:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

u can case it with coir too if thats all u have on hand.

i don't really consolidate tubs unless i go uncased, then i wait for a FEW knots, but not many.

maybe someone else does that particular thing, and they will chime in.  i would be worried it would switch to fruiting mode, then u case it, and it gets confused, but thats just a guess


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #22107243 - 08/19/15 12:36 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks Aj, I am pretty stoked, it seems like it colonized so fast 1:2 ratio, and I think its looking pretty nice. I'm trying to figure out how its going to grow, how the pins form, where and ect..
@ BL, What are knots? is that where it makes like a knuckle/knot and a few shrooms grow from that knot? I was also thinking it could confuse the mycelium if I mess up its rythym.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22107381 - 08/19/15 01:05 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i don't have a pic of just knots, but this one has pins and knots.  the knots are the really small white bumps that develop into primordia/pins


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22107458 - 08/19/15 01:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

cool, thanks for the visual. It seems that knots are primarily individual.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22108428 - 08/19/15 05:22 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
i don't have a pic of just knots, but this one has pins and knots.  the knots are the really small white bumps that develop into primordia/pins






is that from that badass little tupperware grow from way back? thats always been one of my favorites on here. was it just a lid or something?


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Mdahmer]
    #22108445 - 08/19/15 05:26 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

when I do my next tub i'm going to put some of my bulk spawn in this mini oreo's cup. tis only bout five inches high, but i'm' thinking put some holes in the sides 3 inches up, tape em, add some of my bulk spawn and put a lid on it, and when its ready to fruit just put a sandwich bag over it with an elastic. I think it would work.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22108476 - 08/19/15 05:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

yea little things like that always look so badass when you get a good pinset.

i remember reading once about someone making little cups like that and giving them out as christmas presents or something like that. they were probably edibles though but still its a pretty cool idea


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22108492 - 08/19/15 05:37 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
well…i feel bad for making y'all wait cause i cased that shit thick…hope this pin porn helps tide u over :crazy2:  all cased with peat :wink:

MS AA+ (straw/poo), harvested two times.


a few PE grows coming along (straw/poo)





Nice dicks :cookiemonster:

I always find my peat gets overrun with PE but I do prefer peat based casing for PE.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22108742 - 08/19/15 06:25 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

has anyone on here used miracle grow peat moss? I have a bit left from prior experiments (which totally failed from bad spawn I think) but anyways I heard its ph balanced and there is no need for HL (I still used it and failed) just wondering if anyone has experience with this? I plan on casing a tub this week really I can just go get a bail but I don't like to be wasteful ya know? LEAF great thread awesome info and well written +5:mushroom2:for you


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: tetherface]
    #22108769 - 08/19/15 06:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i just tried to search but couldnt find anything but i feel like i remember MG peat not being good. maybe magnesium content was too high? i cant be sure though but i would check your bag and see what the % of mag is


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Mdahmer]
    #22108791 - 08/19/15 06:36 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

ill check the bag in the morning and report back its out in my garage and its raining balls outside


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: tetherface]
    #22108814 - 08/19/15 06:40 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

word. the more i think about it i dont think its mag that would be the problem thats with the different types of lime. but you never know maybe its got that high mag lime in it or some kind of strange fertilizer thats harmful.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Mdahmer]
    #22108881 - 08/19/15 06:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I've used Miracle Grow peat moss before. It works fine.


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i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: tetherface]
    #22108977 - 08/19/15 07:17 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tetherface said:
has anyone on here used miracle grow peat moss? I have a bit left from prior experiments (which totally failed from bad spawn I think) but anyways I heard its ph balanced and there is no need for HL (I still used it and failed) just wondering if anyone has experience with this? I plan on casing a tub this week really I can just go get a bail but I don't like to be wasteful ya know? LEAF great thread awesome info and well written +5:mushroom2:for you



PH balanced for what though?  The mushroom cultivator fortifies their casings with agricultural grade hydrated lime to spike the PH of the casing layer up to 14 so that no microorganisms will find the substrate suitable to germinate upon. 

Nutrition rich casing materials are counter productive to the purpose of the casing layer and should be avoided.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: hamloaf]
    #22109106 - 08/19/15 07:52 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i used it a lot when i first started.  i don't like the fertilizers.  not sure if that counts as a nutritive source for mold.  had mixed results, but this was also in my first few months of bulk, so many issues could have been at fault.

it has less sticks than what i get now, thats for sure.

it was PH neutral when i used it according to my strips.
but, the point of the write up was to show that Ph is less important than we might first believe.  gypsum and/or limestone are A-OK, just need more than u would for hydrated lime, but also u get extended Ph protection (if u care about that).
the PE tubs i posted earlier have no verm, and no hydrated lime, and they're doing fine.


air flow and clean spawn are the most important part of avoiding contamination.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22109132 - 08/19/15 08:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Gypsum is a PH buffer/stabilizer.  Hydrated lime is a PH spiker.  Extended PH protection would be beneficial for species that need to be cased but take a long time to pin like subtropical psilocybe species of mushrooms.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: hamloaf]
    #22109135 - 08/19/15 08:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

call it whatever u want man.  my point is, it works.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22109181 - 08/19/15 08:21 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
call it whatever u want man.  my point is, it works.




See your point and raise you the point of nothing is being called what anybody "wants" here. 

Gypsum is a PH buffer.
http://cmtmi.com/gypsum.asp
https://www.google.com/#q=gypsum+ph+adjustment

Hydrated lime is a PH spiker.

Quote:

Hydrated lime, a fast acting form of lime, can raise pH quite rapidly. It is the "strongest" lime generally available. However, the use of hydrated lime should be avoided, except in extremely heavy clay soils, as it can easily burn plant roots.




http://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/landscaping/implement/soil_ph.html

These are facts.

Do not recall saying nothing didn't and/or wouldn't work because I didn't.  All that was said was that nutrient rich materials should be avoided in casing layer materials for the aforementioned reasons.  Not that they did not work or that mixed results were and/or are not discovered by your's or other's research.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: hamloaf]
    #22109291 - 08/19/15 09:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i'm seeing knots starting to form now..lol It seems to have come during the dark period.. maybe its just timing, but I wonder if thats when they like to develop.
  Hopefully I can find some jiffy mix tomorrow, I got a sitter for an hour so If I cant find any i'm probably going to fruit without. my tub is looking sahweeet!


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22109806 - 08/19/15 02:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

yes ham.  i understand what each of those things does.  my point is that i don't want people who were previously afraid of using peat to get caught up in terms like Ph, buffers, stabilizers, and confuse the map with the territory.

i wasn't trying to say u implied it wouldn't work.  i apologize if it sounded like that, but in general, I'm usually sloshed when i post at night, and last night was no different.

Quote:

abductee said:
i'm seeing knots starting to form now..lol It seems to have come during the dark period.. maybe its just timing, but I wonder if thats when they like to develop.
  Hopefully I can find some jiffy mix tomorrow, I got a sitter for an hour so If I cant find any i'm probably going to fruit without. my tub is looking sahweeet!




cool man.  uncased tubs are a great thing to.  jiffy casing, coir casing, uncased, bottles, tubs, bags, all get killer results.
if u can't get a hold of a casing material on time, i'd say go w/o.  life has a way of working itself out.  mushrooms are no different :thumbup:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22109826 - 08/19/15 02:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

buffers are advanced stuff in chemistry, and can both raise and lower pH to keep pH stable.
your blood is filled with buffers to keep it at the perfect pH.

Gypsum is not a buffer.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: spacechildo]
    #22109858 - 08/19/15 03:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Lime raises ph and is a buffer.
Gypsum is not a buffer its a water softener. It doesn't change the Ph really at all. It adds calcium. The only time gypsum can change PH is if it gets reacted with something but that's a chemical reaction, not gypsum changing the PH


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (08/19/15 03:18 PM)


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22109870 - 08/19/15 03:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

if it raises pH its not a buffer :shrug: a buffer keeps pH stable
and is made by weak base or acid with its conjugate base/acid.
so if you add something acidic or basic to a buffered aqeous solution those weak base/acids in the buffer will equalize whatever is added to keep pH stable.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: spacechildo]
    #22109881 - 08/19/15 03:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

ok ok, lets not get bogged down with terms.  trying to avoid that and not confuse the newer people.

limestone, gypsum, hydrated lime, all ok to use with peat casings either in combination, or alone.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22159832 - 08/29/15 06:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

We've got two shoeboxes ready to fruit and I'm using peat mix for casing. I followed your tek well. Used a cup of garden lime additive--all I could find. After PC'ing (which I think is overkill since there is no longer any need for sterile conditions, I think), I took a sample and suspended it in distilled water. pH condition is 7.4, which is much higher than straight peat. I'm going to experiment with adding the lime to see if I can significantly raise the pH level. See if it makes a difference.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #22161558 - 08/30/15 01:27 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)


:dancer:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22161569 - 08/30/15 01:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:
i got the tag with the help of bodhi's beer, so i thank him for the hopped up perspective.

ill post AA tubs when i get home.  went on impromptu end of summer camping trip last week.  couple fist fills of cubes later, i still am not home WTF.  i need my own car :facepalm:

  a buddy took pics though, so can't wait to see them myself!


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22161626 - 08/30/15 01:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Congratulations my friend :rockon: rightly deserved tag if I say so. I've only been around a little while but you've helped me and many others, you teach and i can see you have the myco mind...lol yeah i'm weird :cookiemonster:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #22161657 - 08/30/15 02:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ajahn Don said:
We've got two shoeboxes ready to fruit and I'm using peat mix for casing. I followed your tek well. Used a cup of garden lime additive--all I could find. After PC'ing (which I think is overkill since there is no longer any need for sterile conditions, I think), I took a sample and suspended it in distilled water. pH condition is 7.4, which is much higher than straight peat. I'm going to experiment with adding the lime to see if I can significantly raise the pH level. See if it makes a difference.




hey, just noticed this.
a cup of garden lime…not sure which lime u mean?  one cup of hydrated lime is a lot…like enough to pasteurize a few pounds of straw….

IME, hydrated lime is finicky.  too high a PH, and u set back fruiting.  "leap off" into peat is delayed, and therefore, so is ur pin set.  it is "less risky" cause yea, u upped that shit super high, but better strategy is make sure ur FAE is good, and let the neutral-SLIGHTLY higher Ph casing do its thing.

the bag i did with lime only, no heat, is delayed.  hydrated lime is awesome, don't get me wrong, but it is very strong. 
we can always try to chemically balance things in favor of mycelium vs. mold, but to balance that environmentally is a much better skill set to have.

but definitely keep us updated on the Ph thing


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22161707 - 08/30/15 02:20 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

BL, I checked the bag. Pelleted lime, "safer than hydrated lime," and 10% magnesium, unfortunately. I remembered your caution after I bought the bag and made up the casing. It raised the pH. Not sure how much. I'll have to go back and make up the next batch without the lime, measure, and then add the lime. Peat is highly acidic, down around 4, so a pH of 7.4 is way up. My aquarium with local water has a pH of 7.8.

Do you (or anyone) know what level of pH myc prefers when fruiting?

Congrats on the TC tag. You deserve it.

:super:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #22161738 - 08/30/15 02:30 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

its said that cubensis likes a lower Ph.
its known that mold likes that too.

i don't like to use too much, or any, hydrated lime.  i like the limestone powder the best.  but the hydrated lime is good when starting out.  i use it for straw mostly.  but for casings, it is a good one to use with caution.  its really strong though, so be careful.  i didn't even add 1/2 TEASPOON to this liter of water and it was off the charts Ph.  could be brand variance though :shrug:


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22163084 - 08/30/15 08:59 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hmm.  I've been using like, 1/4 cup of agricultural hydrated lime and 3/4 cup oyster shells for just under 2qts of casing (ala hawk.)  Usually colonizes in a week or less.  What kind of colonization times are you seeing?

I would offer a pH, but honestly I couldn't find any pH strips locally that were cheap enough to be worth while.  Spent enough money on other casing items.

One thing I've been doing is mixing my hydrated lime in with my peat and just under the field capacity water for 50/50 to make a nice soup.  I figure the deep saturation of the peat with the base should give it a better chance of neutralizing the acidic peat than it would if basic water was soaking into the verm, as it would if it was all thrown together in one go.

Nice writeup btw.  I've been slowly dialing back my vermiculite content, and I think I will continue to do so.  Totally agree on the moisture retention point.  Peat is way better than coir.


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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


Edited by Machiavelliavore (08/30/15 09:00 AM)


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22163403 - 08/30/15 12:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

it depends on depth of casing and how wet it is fr colonization times IME.  3 days is a good number to shoot for to be put into fruiting, but sometimes more.  other people case and fruit immediately with peat.  i don't have too much experience with that TBH.  i should probably try it.

1/4 lime is a lot!!  what is the brand?
if its colonizing ok, then don't change anything.  i ordered hydrated lime on amazon once and it was literally bunker than the bunkest shrooms i ever ate.

strips are cheap.  order them on a vendor site or amazon the next time u buy something from one of them.  its like $3 for 200 strips or so.


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22163421 - 08/30/15 01:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Bonide Hydrated Lime.  Got it at a local nursery.

Casing then fruiting a imediately sounds kinda sketchy to me.  I get that sense that deep under the casing there is probably not much evaporation occuring, it's just kind of a cool damp environment.  I would guess it just colonizes as much as it needs to then fruits with that method.

I think I will order some stips.  I wanna do a side by side on the Peat+Lime+Water presoak mixture, and everything mixed at once, to see if additional neutralization occurred due to the deep soak of the peat with lime.


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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22163425 - 08/30/15 01:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
Bonide Hydrated Lime.  Got it at a local nursery.

Casing then fruiting a imediately sounds kinda sketchy to me.  I get that sense that deep under the casing there is probably not much evaporation occuring, it's just kind of a cool damp environment.  I would guess it just colonizes as much as it needs to then fruits with that method.

I think I will order some stips.  I wanna do a side by side on the Peat+Lime+Water presoak mixture, and everything mixed at once, to see if additional neutralization occurred due to the deep soak of the peat with lime.




No, Id highly recommend AGAINST changing Stamet's method. But yes, you don't need a terrarium at 85%. That's the beauty of it. Get those plastic storage boxes, case in it, cover with plastic sheeting (I never used tape I don't think) and you'll still notice condensation. Spray the sides with a spray bottle (or the whole thing with a mister but it's not necessary) and fan off every day.

Seriously, if someone is able to mix it well you can do it.

Another trick -- thin vermiculite at bottom (to absorb free H2O and crumble the mycelium between your fingers. Get it even enough where there are no slopes or good sized crevices, but pretty even -- too even will kil your flush and cause you a day picking 1/2" mushrooms. Peat/lime is the same way -- just sprinkle on top according to the height of the mycelium underneath. Thicker mycelium ==> more peat.

I am 100% convinced this and the way I use sterille bags give twice or more the flush in 1/2-3/4 the time (and you can make more sterile inoculum right out of the bag! just inject sterile water in the innoc site with a syringe (you may need to add glass to break it up).


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: micro]
    #22165924 - 08/31/15 03:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

ok sorry for delay.  went on camping trip, my buddy harvested these and babysat.  apparently his idea of "take a pic before harvest birds eye" is not birds eye :facepalm:



here are the tubs today.  notice how the casing isn't 100% colonized.  thats a good thing.  after 1-2 days rest period after 1st, i let it rest, then pour water on top. 


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Re: Peat moss casing (how to case with an unsustainable resource) [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22849891 - 02/01/16 07:30 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Tried it last night. Love the texture. Thanks for the simple explanation and write up!


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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: blindingleaf] * 2
    #23124665 - 04/17/16 01:01 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Somehow, I missed this. Excellent write-up. thanks.


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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23489353 - 07/29/16 10:43 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
Please note that this is not a comparison thread, or a thread that is arguing for one casing over another.  They can all work well.  There are other threads u can argue ur point in. 
This is a HOT TO USE PEAT MOSS thread. 
also note that cubes do not require a casing layer.  yes, we all know that.

I have been getting a lot of PMs lately about substrate or casings.  its annoying to answer each one (no offense) so i figured i'd write this up.  I don't really write TEKs cause i don't do anything special.  old school ain't bad school if you ask me.  i got no weird gimmicks, or tricks to make things better or go faster or anything like that.  those things are all interesting to me, and i try a lot of them, but i always fall back to the basics it seems like.  Since there isn't really a casing thread i could find that went into too much detail about home made casings, i decided this might be a good opportunity to write one.  There is Franks jiffy mix TEK, and the standard Ryche Hawk's 50/50 (+) casing TEK in the FAQ section, and probably the best visual one is the RR video in the casing chapter here.  I wanna point out that when i make casings or substrate, i really don't measure much.  its all by feel so this isn't exactly how i do it every time.  recently i've been trying NO verm casings with success, and continue to play around with NO hydrated lime.  traditionally, button growers, who we learned HOW to case from, use only peat and limestone, NO HEAT, nada.  just mix dry and add water and apply.  the original 50/50 TEK did not have hydrated lime, nor did the original RR casing TEK.  again, old school ain't bad school.  I'm not one to push for one way or another, i think u should do what works for you.

I've been casing with peat for a while now, and i really have no problems with it.  I see a lot of people might, but then again, u never know when dude posts he tried it and got green, did dude really try it though?  the regulars I'm sure are keen to their word, and know the kinds of posters I'm referring to.  they're always one step ahead of all the other noobs :rolleyes:

so maybe IRL, peat doesn't really have that much of a bad wrap, but its just something that generally got accepted and repeated.  could be for a reason though, and I'm an exception, but i've had many a contaminant in bulk growing, FEW of them green, and none of them from the casing layer (that i could tell anyways), so i tend to think peat should be given a second chance (if u haven't already honestly tried it)

Explanation of ingredients.
I know there are many people who use jiffy mix, or other pre mixes.  Thats all well and good, and obviously they are easy, fast, and work wonders.  Maybe its just the way i am, but i like to get down to the nitty gritty, and usually end up making things harder on myself by doing things from scratch.  This is one of those things. 
Bales of peat are REALLY cheap.  they are 3 cubic feet, and compacted well, its really a lot of peat.  i know many of u grow weed or other ethnobotanicals, or do gardening stuff.  i think thats all the more reason to go this route.  it stores well outside/garage/basement.  keep it as dry as u can, if its outside, a tarp is fine.  Here is a recent price comparison at Home Depot


So i buy the bale.  the one pictured above is a brand called "Lamberts".  i haven't used that one, but the one i use wasn't there when i took the picture.  Its organic (this is of no consequence, just the brand i think has best quality, and its same price) and called "Majestic Earth".  if u get small bags, loose bags, etc, its all good.  whatever is cheap.  you might get some brands u don't like, and in time u'll figure out what and why.  I look for texture and relatively few sticks.

Next is vermiculite.  I'm sure many of u buy this in bulk cause the coir bucket TEK.  or at least, i hope u buy it in bulk :lol:  This is the course stuff.  I think its better for casing, but the fine or medium is perfectly good too.  i actually like fine verm for bucket TEK more.  this is just what i have.


Next is limestone.  this is just regular powder limestone for your yard.  i know the bag says "granular" and "chunks" but, i swear its powdery.  if ur looking for it, its usually outside in garden section in 40 lb bags (its heavy even though bag is small).  less than $10/bag.  You can also use it in grains or in bucket TEK.  its kinda similar to gypsum, but has no sulphur.  FEEL the bag before u buy it, it should feel like powder.  crushed oyster shell is another option and will do a similar thing if crushed fine enough.


Next is hydrated lime.  The two best/most used and recognized brands are "hi-yield" and "hoffman".  i got some on amazon once, and it didn't even work, not sure what the deal was with that.  there are probably others, but hoffman is easiest to get for me.  its very strong, very powdery, you should be careful with it.  Again, this is cheap, $10 or less a bag.


note back of bag label.  magnesium content is low, you will want it under ~5% or so


Perlite (not pictured) and Gypsum . you can substitute gypsum for limestone if you want.  Perlite, I'm sure u know what it looks like.  its optional but helpful.  I'll be using Miracle grow perlite for this, but i would strongly encourage you to go with another brand.



Lets get started, shall we?

First, lets note than we are about to pasteurize properly.  this could take a while :frown:  so lets get lifted!  its summer time, enjoy it while it lasts.  open the doors, turn on some tunes.
roll up a spliff


and smoke it


alright, lets sit down and take a breath.  we're about to mix up some peat, right?  ummm, yea i think so…lemme just think for a second….oh yea..yea, thats what we were up to :stoned2:

The recipe I'm making today will be for two standard tubs.  I use about 2.5 qts of casing per tub.
5-6 qts peat (it shrinks when it gets wet)
1qt coarse vermiculite (fine, medium ok too)
3/4 cup limestone (finely ground best bet)
3/4 cup perlite

If i was adding hydrated lime to this, i would add about 1 heaping teaspoon (or about 1 level teaspoon per tub).  Today, i will not be adding it.  If ur just starting to experiment with peat, it would be wise to include that in your recipe.  Im using this as an example to show that peat can be used safely w/o ph strips or hydrated lime.

If limestone is unavailable, gypsum can be substituted. IME, it doesn't provide the small upswing limestone does, but it does the job just fine.  I have a lot of limestone from when i couldn't find gypsum, so i still am using that.

1. Get a large pot.  I use this one a lot for myco stuff.  maybe 2.5 gallons big?  whatever works, small buckets are good.
2. A course strainer and/or pasta strainer (the larger the holes the better)


3. Grab a small container and start scooping in ur peat moss, sticks, clumps, and all.


4. Sift it back and forth.  the peat you want is fine particles, you will be surprised at how soft it feels in a second.


5. Once it seems all sifted, take a look  See if there are any large clumps of peat that stuck together from making the bale you got it in (if u did).  There will be a lot of bark and sticks too, but you should be able to tell the difference (below picture).  I just break up the big clumps and sift a bit longer.  When I'm done, i put the bark/sticks, etc aside (below picture).  You can use them for edible grows, outdoor stuff, orchid mixes, etc.  no need to waste it.


When you buy jiffy mix, part of the premium price you pay is that it is sifted for the most part.  I used to get the small bags of miracle grow peat, and there were only ever a few sticks.  if your peat doesn't have many sticks u can skip this.  And technically, u can skip it even if u have a lot of sticks.  its just a safer bet to sift IME.  The large $10 bales will always have sticks, its just the downside of buying in bulk in this case.
Sift until u see about 5-6 qts worth.  it will be nice and soft.  you will want to lay in it naked, but wait, you didn't sift that much did you?!?


6. Adding the rest of the mix. 
A traditional casing mix for cubensis would be 50% peat, and 50% verm with a buffer.  After trying that for a while, i ended up liking a high ratio of peat.
Verm may hold more water than peat up front, but IME, peat is able to RETAIN it for longer.  When I think about casing ingredients, i think that water retention is a top priority.  It doesn't matter to me if verm can hold 3x more water than peat if it loses it 3x faster.  Maybe others have had different experiences with it, but that is my 2 cents on it. 
Limestone is added to increase the Ph of the casing.  It is more of a long term buffer than a quick acting one, but it is still capable of a couple points up front.  That is good enough for me.  A traditional recipe calls for about a 10% addition to the casing.
Perlite is added to increase aeration and create a sort of bumpy-ness i think helps growth.
Hydrated Lime is added to immediately boost the Ph of the casing.  It is VERY strong.  Please wear gloves when handling, and mixing casings with this stuff.  I have never felt more acute stomach pain in my life.  PLEASE, wash your hands after using hydrated lime. (not pictured below)



7.  Mix the ingredients dry.


8. Bring to field capacity.  I have no pictures of this, and I don't have a measurement.  i do this all by eyeballing.  Add water slowly, its probably about 2 qts for the above recipe, maybe a little more if u used fine vermiculite, or a higher ratio of vermiculite.  in time, u will learn it well, and exact measurements will elude you too

9. Load into bags/jars for Proper pasteurization. 
I use bags, and as u can see, i use them quite a bit.  Jar I think heat up faster, i just don't have any extra on hand, and bags make it easy to do 1 bag>1 tub.  I split this btw the bags, each one getting 2.5-3 qts, or whatever u end up with.


10. Load into PC before the water.


11. Add the water.  I add it up to basically as high as i can w/o the bags floating.  maybe 3/4 the way up??  i dunno man, u'll figure it out


12. Tie the bags.  I use a kinda tight rubber band (zip ties work too).  i bring it to the top-ish of substrate, but i don't try to get the air out or anything.  if there was more in the bag, that would be a good idea though.  Then i insert thermometer into center of one bag thru the top, and look at temp.  I used room tempish water when i saturated the casing, but u could use hotter water.


13. Put PC/pot lid on.  turn stove on high.  keep an eye till it boils


14. When the water starts boiling rapidly, i turn down the flame. (no picture, my bad)  i know its the center of the substrate that matters, but in this particular TEK, I'm shooting for a shorter pasteurization time at a lower "exterior temp" because i want to preserve as much of peats microbial community as I can.  The goal here is to kill off any common competitor mold spores that got in at harvest, packaging, in my basement, etc. 
here is a short abstract about kill times for common molds.  shout out to kizzle for finding this.
My goal is to get to 140, and turn timer on for a half an hour.


15.  If you have your pasteurization game down, then u will know ur stove and all that.  This time, my temp started at 81.  I turned it down once it was rapidly boiling to low, then I turned it off at 99.  If i had more casing/substrate in the bag, the times would be different, and you will figure ur own scheme out after a few tries.


16. If the temps are climbing to fast, ill either hitch the lid a little, or completely take it off to slow down the thermal momentum.


17. CLEAN UP.  I'm adding this in here because I'm coming to realize how important this really is.  we are all growing mushrooms indoors for God's sakes, keep your place CLEAN.  i can't even really explain how disgusting my last place was.  a combination of sheer laziness, pets, smokers, party's, bulk ingredients, etc made it pretty bad.  i know there is no way to link a dirty environment with high risk of contamination, but i personally think there is a correlation.  its not necessarily that ur fruiting tubs are exposed to more mold spores, its that ur whole house eventually becomes more mold ridden than it should be.  this can get in ur SAB, ur tools, ur jar rims, in the eddies of ur flow hood.  the chances of getting into ur spawn are then greater.  this isn't about fruiting in a sterile or super clean place, thats obviously not necessary.  its about keeping ur shit straight, knowing how to stay organized, and making sure ur not a dirt ball in general. live simply and know what mold vectors are and address them.  I think it will help both you and your grows, my :2cents:


18.  When the 30 minute timer is up, sometimes I'm looking at 150f, sometimes 160f, sometimes 145f.  Its all good:thumbup:
You can choose to do 60 minutes if u like, i know i did for a while.  whatever gives u peace of mind, go for it.  just stay on the lower end of the temps if possible.

19.  I let it cool.  When 30 minute timer is up, i take the lid off (if its not already) and move the rubber band up, ABOVE the filter, and fold over the top of the bag, securing it with the rubber band. 

I've let peat sit for a while, 10 days or so, and still used it with GREAT success.  It's not like substrates, where the nutrients can get eaten up.  Today, ill be letting it cool overnight to use tomorrow.  any additional time spent btw pasteurizing and using is time that the microbial population can build up, and thats ok.  Don't get too carried away, I'm just saying, its all good.  pasteurize a few tubs worth if u got the day off.  keep it on the shelf.  it will be ok.

Please note, there are a lot of ways to pasteurize.  I've done peat in the oven, and i've limed it, no heat, with success.  For me, this is the way i prefer to treat peat based casings, but there are many other ways.  I think the combination of me sifting the sticks out, ensuring proper airflow in the tub, and the reduced heat treatment, is a big reason why i have not had problems with peat casings.  The reason why it still works w/o the hydrated lime is because the microbial population is present enough to ward off any bad guys.  When peat is sterilized, this population is virtually eliminated, and leaves the peat open for competitors.  When peat is pasteurized with boiling water for a long duration, this population is also theoretically decreased.  This is why i lower my heat, and reduce the length of the run.  I do not do this for substrates like poo/straw/etc. 
If you choose to use a dash of hydrated lime, ur chances for success, IME, are even higher.
again, i want to add that i do use hydrated lime regularly.  about 1 teaspoon per tub mix.  this specific recipe and example (and the ones pictured soon) are just examples of peat being used successfully without hydrated lime, in an effort to (hopefully) help people feel more safe in using this casing.  also the addition of an extra 30 minutes of pasteurization time should help keep u sane until u get used to peat.

Again, i want to say, this is not a comparison thread.  i also use coir as a "casing" but i apply it at a different time, and only in specific situations (mainly when i use a lot of straw in a tub).  peat is something i use on poo/straw mixes (where poo is main ingredient), CVG tubs, and coir/straw tubs, because IME, it give me more reliable results in those situations.

next step will be applying the casing layer, and determining when to fruit it (coming soon)

APPLYING THE PEAT

(sorry these pics are sideways :frown:  I'm not used to uploading this many at once, forgot to check orientation)

Now that your peat has had time to cool overnight, or even a few hours, its time to apply.  Lets take a good look at our tubs.  we don't wanna case them if they aren't healthy.
AA+ on CVG with amendments (I'm using CVG for this example because i know thats the substrate of choice these days.  in general, i would use straw/poo)



notice there is no variation in the texture of the mycelium.  this is very important, especially when using CVG.  with other substrates, variances can occur, but only slightly.  Hopefuly, ill address that in another write up on how i prep substrates.  point is, with experience, you will just know by looking at a colonized tub if your spawn was top notch or not.

!. DUMP the whole bag onto the top of substrate.


2. SPREAD it out evenly.  this amount of peat looks to be about a 1/2".  u can choose to do less, this is just what i ended up with.  like i said before, all my tubs are slightly different…..sorry :shrug:


3. Now, I take some of the excess thats in the middle of the tubs, and push it to two opposite corners of the tub.  This is so later, when i introduce to fruiting conditions, i can use that to patch, and i don't have to keep any back in the bag.  u can either keep some back in the bag/jars, or u can do this, OR u can just not patch.  up to you, but IME, patching is worth it usually, ESPECIALLY with thinner casings (and yes, i know, this is not a thin casing :P )


4. I use four top holes on my tubs, and 4 bottom holes, all of them are 1 3/8".  its basically standard set up, as per Frank, but i add two top holes on the long sides at the top.  I don't necessarily use them all the time (for uncased tubs, i keep them taped thru harvest), but they are there if i need them.  After applying, i put the lid on, and plug up the two top holes on long sides with poly.  let her breath easy folks.  do you want to be trapped in a taped up tub??


5. Mark the date u cased, and the recipe u cased with (if it varies and u care about that variation), and put them back in ur stack.  NOW WE WAIT.

Examples of peat based casings w/o Verm or hydrated lime.

Penis Envy (straw poo substrates)



two of them have an uneven pin set, thats cause they are closest to the part of the wall my window AC hits.  make sure you know how to identify variations in pin sets and address them quickly and appropriately.  we all have different conditions.  READ your mycelium.  LEARN from it.  its telling you a story everyday.
PE usually takes over the casing for me before fruiting.  thats an anomaly IME.  here is a tub of a wild cubensis "TMF".  u can see the casing is not colonized completely.  To me, this is important.  i don't like when that happens (hence why i tend to like peat over coir in most circumstances).  Yes, the fruits are spindly.  this variety gave me some trouble.


Here is another PE.  this one has almost an identical recipe as posted for the casing.  substrate is short composted straw/poo.


Hopefully this helps.  ill update the TEK with the AA+ grows.  hopefully u learned a little something even if u don't case, or don't want to use peat.  I always like to try things out for myself.  trust issues, ya dig :shrug:

Edit: Because of peats ability to be stored for longer than pasteurized, nutritional substrate, if you end up going for an hour, or to 160 for a while its ok.  Since u will be storing this on a shelf/tote before use, as long as a small % of the microbial population was preserved, it will spread as time goes on.  Since this situation called for me using the casing same/next day, i wanted to keep the temp low, since there would be no "shelf time" for that population to increase.
There have been many times when my peat hit 180.  oh shit, WTF did i DOOOOO!! but, being me and working a lot, i used it anyway with success.  i can only assume it was the hydrated lime that helped in these instances.  so again, peat is more flexible than u might think with proper conditions in your tub and a strong buffering agent.  but to be safe, and what I do these days, is to follow what is outlined above, so your peat casing becomes more of a control than a variable

Also, keep in mind, i am not a scientist, a biologist, a micro biologist, i don't even have a college degree man.  This TEK is primarily informed by my experiences with peat as a casing over the past 1.5 years, and a lot of reading and talking to other growers, gardeners, farmers, etc.  So take the microbe thing with a grain of salt, but i hope you see the logic behind it.



Because this needs to be on the first page again


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: azur]
    #23489675 - 07/30/16 12:47 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

:awesomenod: Well deserved bump. Just bought a bale :rockon:


--------------------

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-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23489707 - 07/30/16 12:54 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

HOT to use peat moss


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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23489740 - 07/30/16 01:01 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Ha ha. I saw thst a long time ago


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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: azur]
    #23489764 - 07/30/16 01:10 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

I hope it doesn't get edited


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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23489908 - 07/30/16 02:15 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Cool thread


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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23490032 - 07/30/16 03:11 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Won't matter. I quoted it. BL will never forget!


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FALL IN LOVE WITH LC
FOTTSE!!!
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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: azur]
    #23491478 - 07/30/16 03:15 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

its a "hot to use peat moss in a monotube"  thread :rofl2:

thanks for the bump. 

I dont sift anymore, I just kinda pick out the larger sticks when I'm casing (as opposed to when I'm prepping it), especially anything that still has the wood color to it. those little "flake" looking things, I keep in now.

haven't used hydrated lime or Ph strips since last summer. its about 2 heaping tablespoon limestone FLOUR (fine ground) per tub :cool:


Peat works well for casing outdoors too sans pasteurization



had a blazei project outside that got FUCKED by a heat wave. we commandeered this outdoor spot that was basically abandoned (as far as city funding goes). planted some stuff (peppers tomatoes), but also made a long bed with home made compost.  plan was to case with peat once colonized, but they changed the lock on us in the middle of a heat wave.  12 days later, we got the new key, but it was too late :frown:


fire fang on compost (manure/straw based, done outdoors with tarp)


you win some, you lose some :mushroom2:


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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23603909 - 09/02/16 04:34 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

this might seem weird off the bat.  but i did a little experiment.  sterilized and sealed peat moss on the left.  30 minute@140f pasteurized and sealed peat moss on the right.  the microbial activity rebounds in a few days after pasteurization, inflating the bag with metabolic gases. the sterilized bags plenum is only as big as when I first sealed it and has not expanded because there is no microbial activity



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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23603931 - 09/02/16 04:48 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Cool man,  are you going to apply them both still?


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: Grey]
    #23603980 - 09/02/16 05:26 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

:wellhellothere:


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That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: The Mycologist]
    #23604009 - 09/02/16 05:40 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

no, I was just seeing what happened.  I'm also curious how long the pasteurized one lasts at room temp


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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23604917 - 09/02/16 11:45 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

I have a few mycobags without filters that I use for pasteurizing casing. I've sealed them immediately out of the pasteurization bath. They vacuum sealed the hell out of themselves and stayed that way until I cut them open to use them. The temps never exceeded 147. The casings worked just fine when used. :shrug:


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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: Juiceh]
    #23606935 - 09/03/16 01:39 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

thats cool man. definitely do whatever works for you.

I made the post cause I wouldn't have expected the peat to do that as quickly as it did.  was sealed on the 29th, and yesterday was the 2nd.  I would have figured even pasteurized peat wouldn't have the kind of activity to inflate the bag.

  these are weird bags Im trying to get rid of because they melt above 15PSI.  unicorn bags don't do the same thing with the inflation.

maybe in ur case, you used hydrated lime which affected their activity, or the fact that there was no GE made them lie dormant?  whatever the case, I wasn't making the post to imply not to use peat that didn't inflate a bag, I just thought it was cool:cool:


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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: blindingleaf]
    #24941572 - 01/26/18 02:09 AM (5 years, 3 days ago)

Bump


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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: cronicr]
    #26644538 - 05/03/20 04:58 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Hello,

This is a great thread. It is almost all that I was looking for because I am highly considering trying this TEK with what will start as PF cakes. I've already inoculated both 1/2 pint and 1/4 pint jars and I'm thinking of trying to case at least 6 of either size having done normal PK tek enough times. I may try to case the smaller 1/4 cakes..

I have some questions since the TEK is somewhat elusive.. Apparently I want to pasteurize the peat moss + vermiculite + lime powder mix by keeping it the temp range in the JPEG poster several times in this thread ~140'F. So, you initially bring the water to a boil, then get it back to up 140'F for about 30 minutes? This range seems like it is hard to reach. It looks like I will need a temp. probe like the one seen in the pics used.

Is it actually worth getting a thermometer that can be put in a pressure cooker or can you just keep it on low for 30 minutes? It seems like the range you need to hit is pretty narrow..  I would probably sacrifice a jar with peat + verm + lime with the probe in it so I could keep it sterile and still get the temp.. I have no idea how hot a pressure cooker runs since it just tells me the PSI on mine..

If I have a probe i one of the jars, I will have to assume they all are the same temp, which should be accurate enough.  Would a thermometer  like this do the job?

https://www.amazon.com/ThermoPro-TP-17-Digital-Backlight-Thermometer/dp/B07477NMF4/ref=sr_1_9?crid=3VI4VO8CMX2ZN&dchild=1&keywords=cooking+thermometer&qid=1588468093&sprefix=cooking+%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-9

I see this person has managed to used grow bags in a pressure cooker with lime in them.. Admittedly not hydrated lime. I have decided to avoid the hydrated lime thus far for safety since I have never tried this. I hope that avoiding hydrated lime isn't a mistake. It seems a little extreme but if I am looking at likely failure without it then I will reconsider. Since I AM going to pressure cook, I hope that makes up for not using hydrated lime. I guess there is no threat of it exploding in the PC? If people are using grow bags, I guess not. It seems a lot of people claim the 10% normal lime they use is good enough..

I plan to put the dry peat solution in normal half pint canning jars instead of bags for various reasons. For one, I can make sure it stays dry.. I also can't get bags as seen in this TEK. Canning jars are what I have readily available.


I see people talk about measuring the pH, I guess before pouring the the casing mix onto the mycelium? What is the number you are trying to go for? If the number is off, do you just add add lime/Gypsum to raise/lower the pH to a specific level? I imagine once you have it mixed together there isn't much you can do. I am hoping the ratios listed in this thread will be sufficient.

My plan is to take 6 1/4 pint jars and case them once they are colonized. Before they show any signs of pinning. I've found that this thread is a much more technical version of this post:
http://www.fungifun.org/English/Casing

Kudos to the poster who shared this information! The site above is much too vague. It doesn't mention anything about sterilization. I know I need to RTFM, but I want to dive in and start casing.. :smile:

Am I likely to have any luck if I wing it and don't use a digital thermometer that will go in my pressure cooker? I'm honestly not sure if I could get one in my pressure cooker because of how the lid snaps on..

If I can't get a probe into my PC, would I be better off double boiling and using a normal meat thermometer to get to the magic temperature range for 30 minutes? It seems this is the key..

What other advice do people have for a newb like me who has done PF tek a few times but has never done casing? Is this an okay method for beginners? I found it appealing because the ingredients were readily available. Should I keep the PF cakes I have whole, or break them into marble size pieces before I put them into a terrarium? I'm thinking of using a smaller container with a black bag as shown in the pics then I will put that in a larger terrarium that I'd normally use for PK cakes.

Would it be worth breaking up just one cake spreading it over them all so the mycelium is touching more to begin with? It does say in the TEK to make sure the mycelium is evenly spread.. I'm not sure how I am supposed to achieve this and what to do if it isn't perfect.. Would I be better off breaking up the mycelium trying to spread it evenly in a container or put the colonized cakes together leaving them less disturbed? Should I even be trying this TEK with colonized PF cakes?It might be hard to have each one equally colonized the same amount at the same time.. I guess I will find out how this goes.

Also, what should I be doing for water?? I will obviously want to mist the top. I will use a spray bottle 3-5x per day. Should I put perilite in the outer tank and treat it just as if it had PF cakes in it? Is there a better simple chamber I could make to put a casing in? It looks like this recipe calls for me heating DRY peat + vermiculite + lime. At no point does it say adding water to the mix inside the, "bag" for sterilization. Should I keep it all dry until I have the peat mixed on top of the mycelium? At this point do I mist the top with water?I assume I keep misting several times per day and that keeping the air flow up is also key to success??

I am hoping to be able to wing this. I will definitely consider getting a thermometer and not using a PC if the goal is 140'F and I can just get that on the stove.. I'm hoping someone can let me know what matters here..

I was also thinking about dunking the cakes before trying to case first but read several threads where other people already asked enough times stating it didn't matter and one with where one snarky guy said, "you could dunk your dog, but why would you want to?" :wink: So I guess I won't be dunking, either.



Edited by splagley (05/03/20 05:47 AM)


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OfflineHighDesert
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Re: Peat moss casing tutorial [Re: blindingleaf]
    #26943810 - 09/19/20 07:01 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for this!


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