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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22109181 - 08/18/15 11:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
call it whatever u want man.  my point is, it works.




See your point and raise you the point of nothing is being called what anybody "wants" here. 

Gypsum is a PH buffer.
http://cmtmi.com/gypsum.asp
https://www.google.com/#q=gypsum+ph+adjustment

Hydrated lime is a PH spiker.

Quote:

Hydrated lime, a fast acting form of lime, can raise pH quite rapidly. It is the "strongest" lime generally available. However, the use of hydrated lime should be avoided, except in extremely heavy clay soils, as it can easily burn plant roots.




http://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/landscaping/implement/soil_ph.html

These are facts.

Do not recall saying nothing didn't and/or wouldn't work because I didn't.  All that was said was that nutrient rich materials should be avoided in casing layer materials for the aforementioned reasons.  Not that they did not work or that mixed results were and/or are not discovered by your's or other's research.


--------------------

   
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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Invisibleabductee
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: hamloaf]
    #22109291 - 08/19/15 12:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

i'm seeing knots starting to form now..lol It seems to have come during the dark period.. maybe its just timing, but I wonder if thats when they like to develop.
  Hopefully I can find some jiffy mix tomorrow, I got a sitter for an hour so If I cant find any i'm probably going to fruit without. my tub is looking sahweeet!


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: abductee]
    #22109806 - 08/19/15 05:36 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

yes ham.  i understand what each of those things does.  my point is that i don't want people who were previously afraid of using peat to get caught up in terms like Ph, buffers, stabilizers, and confuse the map with the territory.

i wasn't trying to say u implied it wouldn't work.  i apologize if it sounded like that, but in general, I'm usually sloshed when i post at night, and last night was no different.

Quote:

abductee said:
i'm seeing knots starting to form now..lol It seems to have come during the dark period.. maybe its just timing, but I wonder if thats when they like to develop.
  Hopefully I can find some jiffy mix tomorrow, I got a sitter for an hour so If I cant find any i'm probably going to fruit without. my tub is looking sahweeet!




cool man.  uncased tubs are a great thing to.  jiffy casing, coir casing, uncased, bottles, tubs, bags, all get killer results.
if u can't get a hold of a casing material on time, i'd say go w/o.  life has a way of working itself out.  mushrooms are no different :thumbup:


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22109826 - 08/19/15 05:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

buffers are advanced stuff in chemistry, and can both raise and lower pH to keep pH stable.
your blood is filled with buffers to keep it at the perfect pH.

Gypsum is not a buffer.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: spacechildo]
    #22109858 - 08/19/15 06:12 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Lime raises ph and is a buffer.
Gypsum is not a buffer its a water softener. It doesn't change the Ph really at all. It adds calcium. The only time gypsum can change PH is if it gets reacted with something but that's a chemical reaction, not gypsum changing the PH


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (08/19/15 06:18 AM)


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22109870 - 08/19/15 06:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

if it raises pH its not a buffer :shrug: a buffer keeps pH stable
and is made by weak base or acid with its conjugate base/acid.
so if you add something acidic or basic to a buffered aqeous solution those weak base/acids in the buffer will equalize whatever is added to keep pH stable.


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: spacechildo]
    #22109881 - 08/19/15 06:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

ok ok, lets not get bogged down with terms.  trying to avoid that and not confuse the newer people.

limestone, gypsum, hydrated lime, all ok to use with peat casings either in combination, or alone.


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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OfflineAjahn Don
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22159832 - 08/29/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

We've got two shoeboxes ready to fruit and I'm using peat mix for casing. I followed your tek well. Used a cup of garden lime additive--all I could find. After PC'ing (which I think is overkill since there is no longer any need for sterile conditions, I think), I took a sample and suspended it in distilled water. pH condition is 7.4, which is much higher than straight peat. I'm going to experiment with adding the lime to see if I can significantly raise the pH level. See if it makes a difference.


--------------------
"He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #22161558 - 08/29/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)


:dancer:


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22161569 - 08/29/15 04:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:lol:
i got the tag with the help of bodhi's beer, so i thank him for the hopped up perspective.

ill post AA tubs when i get home.  went on impromptu end of summer camping trip last week.  couple fist fills of cubes later, i still am not home WTF.  i need my own car :facepalm:

  a buddy took pics though, so can't wait to see them myself!


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Invisibleabductee
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22161626 - 08/29/15 04:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Congratulations my friend :rockon: rightly deserved tag if I say so. I've only been around a little while but you've helped me and many others, you teach and i can see you have the myco mind...lol yeah i'm weird :cookiemonster:


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #22161657 - 08/29/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ajahn Don said:
We've got two shoeboxes ready to fruit and I'm using peat mix for casing. I followed your tek well. Used a cup of garden lime additive--all I could find. After PC'ing (which I think is overkill since there is no longer any need for sterile conditions, I think), I took a sample and suspended it in distilled water. pH condition is 7.4, which is much higher than straight peat. I'm going to experiment with adding the lime to see if I can significantly raise the pH level. See if it makes a difference.




hey, just noticed this.
a cup of garden lime…not sure which lime u mean?  one cup of hydrated lime is a lot…like enough to pasteurize a few pounds of straw….

IME, hydrated lime is finicky.  too high a PH, and u set back fruiting.  "leap off" into peat is delayed, and therefore, so is ur pin set.  it is "less risky" cause yea, u upped that shit super high, but better strategy is make sure ur FAE is good, and let the neutral-SLIGHTLY higher Ph casing do its thing.

the bag i did with lime only, no heat, is delayed.  hydrated lime is awesome, don't get me wrong, but it is very strong. 
we can always try to chemically balance things in favor of mycelium vs. mold, but to balance that environmentally is a much better skill set to have.

but definitely keep us updated on the Ph thing


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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OfflineAjahn Don
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22161707 - 08/29/15 05:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

BL, I checked the bag. Pelleted lime, "safer than hydrated lime," and 10% magnesium, unfortunately. I remembered your caution after I bought the bag and made up the casing. It raised the pH. Not sure how much. I'll have to go back and make up the next batch without the lime, measure, and then add the lime. Peat is highly acidic, down around 4, so a pH of 7.4 is way up. My aquarium with local water has a pH of 7.8.

Do you (or anyone) know what level of pH myc prefers when fruiting?

Congrats on the TC tag. You deserve it.

:super:


--------------------
"He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #22161738 - 08/29/15 05:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

its said that cubensis likes a lower Ph.
its known that mold likes that too.

i don't like to use too much, or any, hydrated lime.  i like the limestone powder the best.  but the hydrated lime is good when starting out.  i use it for straw mostly.  but for casings, it is a good one to use with caution.  its really strong though, so be careful.  i didn't even add 1/2 TEASPOON to this liter of water and it was off the charts Ph.  could be brand variance though :shrug:


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22163084 - 08/29/15 11:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hmm.  I've been using like, 1/4 cup of agricultural hydrated lime and 3/4 cup oyster shells for just under 2qts of casing (ala hawk.)  Usually colonizes in a week or less.  What kind of colonization times are you seeing?

I would offer a pH, but honestly I couldn't find any pH strips locally that were cheap enough to be worth while.  Spent enough money on other casing items.

One thing I've been doing is mixing my hydrated lime in with my peat and just under the field capacity water for 50/50 to make a nice soup.  I figure the deep saturation of the peat with the base should give it a better chance of neutralizing the acidic peat than it would if basic water was soaking into the verm, as it would if it was all thrown together in one go.

Nice writeup btw.  I've been slowly dialing back my vermiculite content, and I think I will continue to do so.  Totally agree on the moisture retention point.  Peat is way better than coir.


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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


Edited by Machiavelliavore (08/30/15 12:00 AM)


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22163403 - 08/30/15 03:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

it depends on depth of casing and how wet it is fr colonization times IME.  3 days is a good number to shoot for to be put into fruiting, but sometimes more.  other people case and fruit immediately with peat.  i don't have too much experience with that TBH.  i should probably try it.

1/4 lime is a lot!!  what is the brand?
if its colonizing ok, then don't change anything.  i ordered hydrated lime on amazon once and it was literally bunker than the bunkest shrooms i ever ate.

strips are cheap.  order them on a vendor site or amazon the next time u buy something from one of them.  its like $3 for 200 strips or so.


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22163421 - 08/30/15 04:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Bonide Hydrated Lime.  Got it at a local nursery.

Casing then fruiting a imediately sounds kinda sketchy to me.  I get that sense that deep under the casing there is probably not much evaporation occuring, it's just kind of a cool damp environment.  I would guess it just colonizes as much as it needs to then fruits with that method.

I think I will order some stips.  I wanna do a side by side on the Peat+Lime+Water presoak mixture, and everything mixed at once, to see if additional neutralization occurred due to the deep soak of the peat with lime.


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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22163425 - 08/30/15 04:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
Bonide Hydrated Lime.  Got it at a local nursery.

Casing then fruiting a imediately sounds kinda sketchy to me.  I get that sense that deep under the casing there is probably not much evaporation occuring, it's just kind of a cool damp environment.  I would guess it just colonizes as much as it needs to then fruits with that method.

I think I will order some stips.  I wanna do a side by side on the Peat+Lime+Water presoak mixture, and everything mixed at once, to see if additional neutralization occurred due to the deep soak of the peat with lime.




No, Id highly recommend AGAINST changing Stamet's method. But yes, you don't need a terrarium at 85%. That's the beauty of it. Get those plastic storage boxes, case in it, cover with plastic sheeting (I never used tape I don't think) and you'll still notice condensation. Spray the sides with a spray bottle (or the whole thing with a mister but it's not necessary) and fan off every day.

Seriously, if someone is able to mix it well you can do it.

Another trick -- thin vermiculite at bottom (to absorb free H2O and crumble the mycelium between your fingers. Get it even enough where there are no slopes or good sized crevices, but pretty even -- too even will kil your flush and cause you a day picking 1/2" mushrooms. Peat/lime is the same way -- just sprinkle on top according to the height of the mycelium underneath. Thicker mycelium ==> more peat.

I am 100% convinced this and the way I use sterille bags give twice or more the flush in 1/2-3/4 the time (and you can make more sterile inoculum right out of the bag! just inject sterile water in the innoc site with a syringe (you may need to add glass to break it up).


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Peat moss casing [Re: micro]
    #22165924 - 08/30/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

ok sorry for delay.  went on camping trip, my buddy harvested these and babysat.  apparently his idea of "take a pic before harvest birds eye" is not birds eye :facepalm:



here are the tubs today.  notice how the casing isn't 100% colonized.  thats a good thing.  after 1-2 days rest period after 1st, i let it rest, then pour water on top. 


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Peat moss casing (how to case with an unsustainable resource) [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22849891 - 02/01/16 10:30 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Tried it last night. Love the texture. Thanks for the simple explanation and write up!


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