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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Mescalean]
    #22164165 - 08/30/15 10:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Mescalean said:
I don't think the Egyptians built the pyramids, or at least built all of the structures in egypt. Sphinx.




^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.  And this blows the archaeological premise of linear human civilization development out of the water completely. 

The idea that there have been extremely advanced human civilizations that stretch back 25,000+ is absolutely off limits ... a scientific taboo.





is that because there is simply no evidence of these advanced civilizations
stretching back 25,000 years, why is that? oh, because advanced civilization
is a relative term, how are we defining a civilization as 'extremely advanced'







You mean evidence that hasn't been blackballed from mainstream media. And personally I'd say advanced in agriculture and architecture, astronomy too. Buts as advanced as us or more advanced, no. I do think they would have had a good understanding of math.





what evidence, the kind that simply does not exist except in the minds of people that want to believe


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22164171 - 08/30/15 10:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The face of the sphinx dates back to the time of the pyramids. The rest of the body seems to date back to around 10000bc. How that discredits science is beyond me, but apparently somehow people look at this as evidence that secrets are being kept from them.


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OfflineMescalean
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22164182 - 08/30/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Really because I have numbers of 9000-7000 based off water erosion of limestone at the top of the sphinx. As time goes on more and more archaeologists are starting to accept the theory that the sphinx was built when egypt was more of a tropical humid environment. Leading to the theory that the Egyptians moved in and settled in that land, could they have built the pyramids, sure why not, did they build the sphinx, no.

Literally the scapegoat for the head archaeologist in egypt for the sphinx being older was that this new theory was "jewish propoganda"


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OfflineMescalean
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: koraks]
    #22164193 - 08/30/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
The face of the sphinx dates back to the time of the pyramids. The rest of the body seems to date back to around 10000bc. How that discredits science is beyond me, but apparently somehow people look at this as evidence that secrets are being kept from them.





Knock the head off and rebuild in the image of your kings likeliness? I ti surprising someone with a dictator mentality would do this?


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Mescalean]
    #22164199 - 08/30/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

All deserts are man made


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22164202 - 08/30/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

is that because there is simply no evidence of these advanced civilizations
stretching back 25,000 years, why is that? oh, because advanced civilization
is a relative term, how are we defining a civilization as 'extremely advanced'




Why then do so many indigenous cultures ALL have very similar legends about ancient civilizations such as Atlantis, etc.?  Why? 

2,500 years ago, before the Christians destroyed much of the documented history of the world, it is likely that Plato had information about Atlantis that we don't, 2,500 years later.

They are discovering more and more evidence of sophisticated structures that are deep underwater. 

The structures in Peru are now showing evidence of construction well before the currently accepted theory of human migration to the America's occurred. 

To say there's "no evidence" is flimsy.  What you might say is there is no evidence you're aware of or that you accept.  But there certainly is a lot of evidence and it is growing every year.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Mescalean]
    #22164209 - 08/30/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Makes perfect sense in fact. Especially since the original face would have been badly eroded 5000 years ago anyway.

Still someone explain to me how the possibility of the sphinx being both 12000 and 4500 years old is evidence of science today being fraudulent or a conspiracy.


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OfflineMescalean
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Konyap]
    #22164213 - 08/30/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Konyap said:
All deserts are man made





??? elaborate???


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Mescalean]
    #22164231 - 08/30/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
Really because I have numbers of 9000-7000 based off water erosion of limestone at the top of the sphinx. As time goes on more and more archaeologists are starting to accept the theory that the sphinx was built when egypt was more of a tropical humid environment. Leading to the theory that the Egyptians moved in and settled in that land, could they have built the pyramids, sure why not, did they build the sphinx, no.

Literally the scapegoat for the head archaeologist in egypt for the sphinx being older was that this new theory was "jewish propoganda"






hahahaha... this is the evidence?

limestone does not erode at any set rate because it has no specific density or
hardness, it's a sedimentary rock which varies in hardness, the sphinx being
predominantly buried for more than a thousand years left the head exposed which
was subjected to far more than simply erosion from water, there was also abrasion
from sands and other mechanical damage


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Mescalean]
    #22164235 - 08/30/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
Quote:

Konyap said:
All deserts are man made





??? elaborate???




deserts occur when cattle stop roaming freely on the land and shitting everywhere

most likely to happen when the land's topsoil has been used up and there isn't any shade


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: koraks]
    #22164237 - 08/30/15 10:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
The face of the sphinx dates back to the time of the pyramids. The rest of the body seems to date back to around 10000bc. How that discredits science is beyond me, but apparently somehow people look at this as evidence that secrets are being kept from them.





speculation


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: koraks]
    #22164241 - 08/30/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Makes perfect sense in fact. Especially since the original face would have been badly eroded 5000 years ago anyway.

Still someone explain to me how the possibility of the sphinx being both 12000 and 4500 years old is evidence of science today being fraudulent or a conspiracy.




To claim that thousands of scientist are in on a giant conspiracy is iffy at best.  What it is is that there are very defined pathways to become a "credible" member of the science community.  The worst thing you can do is to become known or labeled as an outlier.  This is why you'll never see "serious" mainstream scientists do a study on UFO's or on whether Atlantis existed or any other "fringe" theory as they label them.  It's career destroying. 

Funding for science, for the most part, comes from government sources.  Institutions like the Smithsonian do a lot of work at defining what "credible" scientists can and can't study. 

IMHO, more than anything else, the ruins at Puma Punku blows the theory of human migration to the America's completely out of the water.  Yet it's virtually ignored by the scientific community.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Konyap]
    #22164251 - 08/30/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Konyap said:
Quote:

Mescalean said:
Quote:

Konyap said:
All deserts are man made





??? elaborate???




deserts occur when cattle stop roaming freely on the land and shitting everywhere

most likely to happen when the land's topsoil has been used up and there isn't any shade





um... no.

deserts occur for many reason such as weather patterns changing and the topography of the land


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22164264 - 08/30/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:

IMHO, more than anything else, the ruins at Puma Punku blows the theory of human migration to the America's completely out of the water.  Yet it's virtually ignored by the scientific community.






so man couldnt have come here before 600 AD?

Quote:

Determining the age of the Pumapunku complex has been a focus of researchers since the discovery of the Tiwanaku site. As noted by Andean specialist, Binghamton University Anthropology professor W. H. Isbell,[2] a radiocarbon date was obtained by Vranich[3] from organic material from the lowermost and oldest layer of mound-fill forming the Pumapunku. This layer was deposited during the first of three construction epochs and dates the initial construction of the Pumapunku to 536–600 AD (1510 ±25 B.P. C14, calibrated date). Since the radiocarbon date came from the lowermost and oldest layer of mound-fill underlying the andesite and sandstone stonework, the stonework must have been constructed sometime after 536–600 AD. The excavation trenches of Vranich show that the clay, sand, and gravel fill of the Pumapunku complex lie directly on the sterile middle Pleistocene sediments. These excavation trenches also demonstrated the lack of any pre-Andean Middle Horizon cultural deposits within the area of the Tiwanaku Site adjacent to the Pumapunku complex




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OfflineMescalean
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22164270 - 08/30/15 11:01 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Mescalean said:
Really because I have numbers of 9000-7000 based off water erosion of limestone at the top of the sphinx. As time goes on more and more archaeologists are starting to accept the theory that the sphinx was built when egypt was more of a tropical humid environment. Leading to the theory that the Egyptians moved in and settled in that land, could they have built the pyramids, sure why not, did they build the sphinx, no.

Literally the scapegoat for the head archaeologist in egypt for the sphinx being older was that this new theory was "jewish propoganda"








hahahaha... this is the evidence?

limestone does not erode at any set rate because it has no specific density or
hardness, it's a sedimentary rock which varies in hardness, the sphinx being
predominantly buried for more than a thousand years left the head exposed which
was subjected to far more than simply erosion from water, there was also abrasion
from sands and other mechanical damage




Limestone is errodes easily, sure. Look at any limestone quarry filled with water, have fun swimming in it. The specific type of erosion on the enclosure walls of the sphinx is that of extended periods of heavy rainfall.
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Konyap said:
Quote:

Mescalean said:
Quote:

Konyap said:
All deserts are man made





??? elaborate???




deserts occur when cattle stop roaming freely on the land and shitting everywhere

most likely to happen when the land's topsoil has been used up and there isn't any shade





um... no.

deserts occur for many reason such as weather patterns changing and the topography of the land




and yeah thats why i questioned, pretty sure the Gobi dessert wasn't do to cattle....


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Edited by Mescalean (08/30/15 11:02 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22164282 - 08/30/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

is that because there is simply no evidence of these advanced civilizations
stretching back 25,000 years, why is that? oh, because advanced civilization
is a relative term, how are we defining a civilization as 'extremely advanced'




Why then do so many indigenous cultures ALL have very similar legends about ancient civilizations such as Atlantis, etc.?  Why? 

2,500 years ago, before the Christians destroyed much of the documented history of the world, it is likely that Plato had information about Atlantis that we don't, 2,500 years later.

They are discovering more and more evidence of sophisticated structures that are deep underwater. 

The structures in Peru are now showing evidence of construction well before the currently accepted theory of human migration to the America's occurred. 

To say there's "no evidence" is flimsy.  What you might say is there is no evidence you're aware of or that you accept.  But there certainly is a lot of evidence and it is growing every year.





ah yes... the christian destruction conspiracy


wanna give us some details on the ancient civilizations of the pre migration periods?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Mescalean]
    #22164325 - 08/30/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
limestone does not erode at any set rate because it has no specific density or
hardness, it's a sedimentary rock which varies in hardness, the sphinx being
predominantly buried for more than a thousand years left the head exposed which
was subjected to far more than simply erosion from water, there was also abrasion
from sands and other mechanical damage




Limestone is errodes easily, sure. Look at any limestone quarry filled with water, have fun swimming in it. The specific type of erosion on the enclosure walls of the sphinx is that of extended periods of heavy rainfall.




photos would be quite helpful but given that the original claim was the erosion
of the head and now it's the enclosure walls, this shit is holding even less
credibility and as I had already stated, limestone is a sedimentary rock, it
doesnt have a specific hardness like granite will. limestone on the Mohs hardness
scale varies between 3 and 4 with some actually being softer and others being
harder, granite is at 7, many factors determine the erosion rate of limestone
such as hardness and the pH of the water washing over it

erosion cannot be used to determine the age of something

here's an example of erosion taking place known as exfoliation, several inches of
material at any time can be removed in just a matter of minutes



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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22164375 - 08/30/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

so at the max hardness that limestone can be, how long would it take for erosion to start happening to the extent seen on lionman?  and what about the least hardness?  the idea being here we get some kind of timescale of possibilites


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22164429 - 08/30/15 11:45 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
so at the max hardness that limestone can be, how long would it take for erosion to start happening to the extent seen on lionman?  and what about the least hardness?  the idea being here we get some kind of timescale of possibilites




once more, that cannot be determined because of other factors such as the pH of the
water that's washed over it, wood ash and even volcanic ash will cause rain to
become more corrosive then there are mechanical factors such as sand and as we know
from more recent history, bullets since the sphinx was used for target practice
more than a few times

so to state the blatantly obvious, one more time:
EROSION CANNOT BE USED TO DETERMINE AGE


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OfflineCj-B
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Re: so what do think the pyramids of giza were made for? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22164454 - 08/30/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Mescalean said:
Really because I have numbers of 9000-7000 based off water erosion of limestone at the top of the sphinx. As time goes on more and more archaeologists are starting to accept the theory that the sphinx was built when egypt was more of a tropical humid environment. Leading to the theory that the Egyptians moved in and settled in that land, could they have built the pyramids, sure why not, did they build the sphinx, no.

Literally the scapegoat for the head archaeologist in egypt for the sphinx being older was that this new theory was "jewish propoganda"






hahahaha... this is the evidence?

limestone does not erode at any set rate because it has no specific density or
hardness, it's a sedimentary rock which varies in hardness, the sphinx being
predominantly buried for more than a thousand years left the head exposed which
was subjected to far more than simply erosion from water, there was also abrasion
from sands and other mechanical damage




As strange as it feels to say it, :whathesaid:. Water erosion means nothing. Even carbon dating only gives a range of possible ages, something like erosion that can be affected by any number of environmental factors...VERY questionable methodology. Especially for a historian...


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