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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: the sociology of reading [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22089154 - 08/13/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

human nature. why read a book when there are tons of electronic gizmos to distract and entertain now a days?


Edited by White Beard (08/13/15 08:55 PM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: White Beard]
    #22089274 - 08/13/15 09:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
human nature. why read a book when there are tons of electronic gizmos to distract and entertain now a days?




I agree with you, that's a major part of it.  It's especially relevant to the youth.  If you're young, and you have to choose between some drab-looking paperback and a shiny i-pad, ten kids out of ten will take the gadget.  The problem then becomes that we have kids who excel at video games, and may even have considerable tech-savvy, but when it comes to critical thinking, or any even quasi-philosophical subject, well, they've never used their brains for that before.  And now we have a generation of idiots.

Which is what I observe, incidentally.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlineyeah
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22089351 - 08/13/15 09:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Anyone have any authors to recommend if I like Frank Herbert and Tolkein?


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: yeah]
    #22089408 - 08/13/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)



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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: yeah]
    #22090630 - 08/14/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Check out Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast books...

Quote:

Gormenghast, that is, the main massing of the original stone, taken by itself would have displayed a certain ponderous architectural quality were it possible to have ignored the circumfusion of those mean dwellings that swarmed like an epidemic around its outer walls. They sprawled over the sloping arch, each one half way over its neighbour until, held back by the castle ramparts, the innermost of these hovels laid hold on the great walls, clamping themselves thereto like limpets to a rock. These dwellings, by ancient law, were granted this chill intimacy with the stronghold that loomed above them. Over their irregular roofs would fall throughout the seasons, the shadows of time-eaten buttresses, of broken and lofty turrets, and, most enormous of all, the shadow of the Tower of Flints. This tower, patched unevenly with black ivy, arose like a mutilated finger from among the fists of knuckled masonry and pointed blasphemously at heaven. At night the owls made of it an echoing throat; by day it stood voiceless and cast its long shadow.




Quote:

In the presence of real tragedy you feel neither pain nor joy nor hatred, only a sense of enormous space and time suspended, the great doors open to black eternity, the rising across the terrible field of that last enormous, unanswerable question.




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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22090832 - 08/14/15 11:41 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

"for what use are books to anyone whose days are like a rook's nest with every twig a duty"  -- Mervyn Peake, Titus Groan


I'd be curious to see reading statistics from other countries for comparison, or historical data to see how things have shifted with the surge in other media. I've lived in some less developed parts of the world (remote parts of India, Tajikistan) and found the reading of books to be far less common there than the American statistics would suggest (with the exception of the local culture's Holy Book of choice). Access to books seemed to be part of the problem, as bookstores, if they existed, were places to buy school supplies and little else.

I'm not alarmed by the stats presented, as they may be indicative of a general upward trend in literacy and intellectual engagement in the long term, with a local drop due to other new sources of stimulation emerging.

As suggested by earlier posters, people seek out books for different reasons and with varying degrees of critical reflection. It seems reasonable that the recent explosion in other media would draw some away from reading if their  primary interest was entertainment.

I dug up some interesting studies on recent American reading trends from the National Endowment for the arts, linked below. I've only skimmed them, so I will not attempt a summary.


2009 -- Reading on the Rise


2007 -- To Read or Not To Read


2004 -- Reading At Risk


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OfflineWScott
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #22090852 - 08/14/15 11:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I wonder if the decline of bearded men has any correlation to the lack of general interest in self-maintained literacy. :strokebeard:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: the sociology of reading [Re: WScott]
    #22090860 - 08/14/15 11:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I dunno man; in London at least, beards are making a big comeback. I just wish I could a decent one.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #22092346 - 08/14/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yes DisoRDeR, these statistics are as American as apple pie, but I assume could spill over into other parts of the western world as well.  I would further assume that wherever in the world reading had a strong position, it is now weakened by available technology.  As far as the trends go, if you're curious about the arc of literacy in American society, from its inception to now, as well as many other cultural factors, I have to recommend Morris Berman's books, especially The Twilight of American Culture, and Dark Ages America.  Those two will leave you with some food for thought. :wink:


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,808
Re: the sociology of reading [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22093308 - 08/15/15 01:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
I couldn't disagree more. I see nothing about texting that will stimulate the mind in the way dedicating yourself to a book will. Have you been to major city recently and see the zombies glued to their phones? Shit, a 20 year old guy got killed by a truck outside my office recently after he walked into the road without looking - staring at his phone no less. Or couples, sitting across the table from each other, staring at their phones, not talking.

I'm surprised you think they're comparable.




I personally disagree with part of your disagreement. Texting is a stimulant for my mind, it's beneficial to my focus and ability to effectively articulate my feelings. I am able to better express myself to discuss difficult or thought requiring subjects such as emotional distress.

I do agree that there are too many irresponsible texters. I don't walk with my phone because I can't see when I do and I don't use it around friends either. I use my phone as a sketchpad for emotions.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (08/15/15 02:01 AM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: sudly]
    #22093367 - 08/15/15 02:40 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I hear ya man. I concede my opinion here somewhat, I think I'm just a little bitter about the way phones have so quickly turned 50% of the people I see on a daily basis into semi-zombies. I mean really, it's fucking amazing how often I see people stumbling or walking into things cause they can't take their eyes off their phones. Surely they can't be taking in the full essence of what they're reading when trying to navigate a busy street?

I do totally get how text (not necessarily phone based, but such as the way we use it here, or in emails, letters, etc) can be a really valuable medium for transmitting deep thought and emotion for some, myself included. In fact, I think I express emotion better in this format than verbally, as I often fuck it up verbally due to my lack of empathy/body language skills.

I guess I should have defined 'texting' before I got into a rant about it!


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineRennHuhn
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22098041 - 08/16/15 09:19 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Your generation and the one before and so on was probably also called a generation of idiots. This cultural pessimism is somthing that really hampers a culture, as it is a form of conservativism. The lack of critical thinking is not the fault of the youth. The previous generations fucked that up. All this whining about the younger generations is victim blaming at its best. Books are helpful but not a critical part of developing critical thinking. The surrounding culture and parents are far more important.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: RennHuhn]
    #22098064 - 08/16/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RennHuhn said:
Your generation and the one before and so on was probably also called a generation of idiots. This cultural pessimism is somthing that really hampers a culture, as it is a form of conservativism. The lack of critical thinking is not the fault of the youth. The previous generations fucked that up. All this whining about the younger generations is victim blaming at its best. Books are helpful but not a critical part of developing critical thinking. The surrounding culture and parents are far more important.





Well, I wouldn't separate any of this from culture overall.  Even parenting is very much an aspect of culture.  The whole phenomenon is cultural per se.  Books are more than 'helpful,' we're talking about basic literacy here, which is a very important factor.  As in some of the other posts in this thread, this is much larger than just reading statistics.  The whole cultural arc comprises demonstrably decadent and decaying aspects, of which the decline in intellectual aptitude (which is also eminently demonstrable) is but one manifestation. 

Everything is not okay.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22098353 - 08/16/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Well, I wouldn't separate any of this from culture overall.  Even parenting is very much an aspect of culture.  The whole phenomenon is cultural per se.  Books are more than 'helpful,' we're talking about basic literacy here, which is a very important factor.  As in some of the other posts in this thread, this is much larger than just reading statistics.  The whole cultural arc comprises demonstrably decadent and decaying aspects, of which the decline in intellectual aptitude (which is also eminently demonstrable) is but one manifestation. 

Everything is not okay.




I agree with this 100%


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22141409 - 08/25/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
SURPRISING BOOK FACTS


Quote:

33 percent of high school graduates never read another book the rest of their lives

42 percent of college grads never read another book after college

57 percent of new books are not read to completion

70 percent of US adults have not been in a bookstore the last five years

80 percent of US families did not buy or read a book last year


source: The Jenkins Group/Brian Tracy






Comments?  Does this alarm anyone?





A little poking around has revealed that these statistics may be unpublished, and there is no confirmed original source for the data. From this link:

Quote:

So I decided to don some detective garb and investigate.  And, honestly, it took about five minutes to find out that the study is not at all what it appears.  How did I reach this conclusion?  I called the 1-800 number* on The Jenkins Group's website, and spoke with a very helpful gentleman, who informed me that erroneous information about this "study" has been floating around the internet, unfounded, for almost a decade. 

He told me that the reason for the confusion is that the founder of The Jenkins Group once  gave a presentation at an event in which he cited these reading statistics in his speech.  The statistics were, as far as The Jenkins Group can recall, from a variety of legitimate sources, including the Book Industry Study Group and U.S. News & World Reports.  However, since it's been a decade since this presentation, and I suppose it's unreasonable to think The Jenkins Group still has the notes from the speech, that's where the trail ends.  Wherever these statistics were originally published, they were clearly not published by The Jenkins Group. 





In addition to this, and in the absence of further clarification, the statistics are otherwise problematic. What is the relevance of bookstore visits to literacy? What type of books were considered in the 57% of new books that were not read to completion?

80% of US families did not buy or read a book last year? I call bullshit, unless it is some specific stat about everyone gathering around the fire and reading a book together. The individual adult reading statistics are much higher than that number suggests.

Quote:

As in some of the other posts in this thread, this is much larger than just reading statistics.




Sure, but we must anchor our suppositions in some data, otherwise the sky is falling.

The three studies I linked go into more detail and are worth a look for anyone interested. Of particular interest is the apparent resurgence in reading revealed in the 2009 publication, Reading On the Rise

Quote:

These findings come from the NEA’s 2008 Survey of Public Participation in the Arts, the nation’s
largest federal survey of arts and cultural participation of U.S. adults. The data were obtained in
partnership with the United States Census Bureau. The sample is both large (more than 18,000 adults)
and representative of the current U.S. population. Equally important, the survey has been conducted
at five intervals since 1982. The core questionnaire has remained consistent, ensuring that reliable
comparisons can be made for the purpose of long-term trend analyses.

The survey is designed to give a national overview of adult arts participation in the 12 months
preceding the survey date. It does not identify causes for arts participation or for changes in arts
participation between each survey period. Yet it can track correlations. The reversal of downward
trends for young adult reading suggests at least one hypothesis.

Over the past six years there has been a greater sense of urgency in the U.S. about serious declines in
reading and low levels of reading proficiency, especially among students and young adults. Numerous
organizations and millions of parents, teachers, and librarians have increased their efforts to arrest
these trends. The NEA has been only one of these many agents of change, but it has played a catalytic
role in raising public awareness of the issue, introducing national model programs to address the
problem, and creating large national partnerships to foster new readers.





Self-congratulation aside, there is an interesting suggestion here. That is, that the awareness of declining trends in literacy has been sufficient to trigger alarm in people empowered to do something about it.

The OP asked 'Does this alarm anyone?' Apparently it does. Is this alarm and its response sufficient to remix our techno-culture to its optimal level of literary engagement?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #22141496 - 08/25/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I think this phenomenon is a manifestation of something much broader and more general than just distractions by gadgets.  Without diving too deeply into particulars, there are mountains of indicators that the fundament of the culture itself is declining in many ways.  And this ties very much into the phenomenon of civilizations becoming rotten after they grow and ripen.  I think there is a sweeping arc here of a very general decline in American society itself, as we see functional literacy dwindling, the middle and upper classes separating at unprecedented rates, consumerism and crass commercialism reaching all-time highs, the homogenization of almost all aspects of living in this society, etc., etc.  I think we have to look deeper than trying to get people to read.  This is systemic, and will be very hard to check, let alone reverse.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #22141747 - 08/25/15 04:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Our attention spans have been decreasing because of modern technologies that are shoving more and more information into our brains. It's things like phones and computer that oversensitive our focus and often make it more difficult to sit down and focus on a book for extended periods of time.

http://www.woweducationrewards.org/decreasing-attention-span-ours-is-lower-than-that-of-a-goldfish/


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Folding@home Statistics
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: sudly]
    #22141770 - 08/25/15 04:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Instead of reading books people post youtube videos from unknown sources in "intellectual" conversations.  Reading is boring when you have all of this technology on hand 24/7.  I still read occasionally though.  My latest read was storm of steel, if you're a military buff it's a great read :thumbup:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,808
Re: the sociology of reading [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22141918 - 08/25/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I listen to audio books while travelling because I can focus on my surroundings as I listen.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: the sociology of reading [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22145226 - 08/26/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
SURPRISING BOOK FACTS


Quote:

33 percent of high school graduates never read another book the rest of their lives

42 percent of college grads never read another book after college

57 percent of new books are not read to completion

70 percent of US adults have not been in a bookstore the last five years

80 percent of US families did not buy or read a book last year


source: The Jenkins Group/Brian Tracy






Comments?  Does this alarm anyone?




I read this with complete incredulity, but upon further consideration of people I have known over say, the last 20 years, my incredulity turned to acknowledgement. A former co-worker, a bright but emotionally disturbed Cuban woman who said "I lovvvvve my guns," and who believed that Obama would not only force her to give up her guns, but believed every bit of Rightest Republican Cuban radio bullshit in Miami, never read books. A guy whom I socialized with for 20 years, never read. In fact when he DID read The DaVinci Code years ago, his wife mocked him saying it was the first book he's read since college. I knew a school psychologist who when asked what he read responded with, "Oh, I don't read anymore." I have gone into homes where there were no bookshelves or books lying about (I always scope the house out for that). Come to think of it, that is MOST of the homes I've been in.

I was not an avid reader as a child, other than reading encyclopedia articles, a children's illustrated The Golden Book Encyclopedia, followed by The World Book Encyclopedia, and my BFF's father's Encyclopaedia Brittanica. I only read fiction for school book reports and assignments (my loss). But as an adult I am very opinionated about reading. I look disdainfully on those who don't read unless their circumstances do not allow for leisure. But if they do have leisure time and they utilize it exclusively for sitcom TV, soaps, novellas, gaming, chat rooms, or bad movies, with no reading, then they probably also consume junk food and the other sensate garbage the pop culture excretes.

What a person reads says a lot about them. My ex-wife read and reread her collection of Agatha Christie murder mysteries. Sometimes she didn't realize she'd already read one until it was 3/4 finished. Her choice wasn't my taste, but in itself I am not judging the literature. I am judging my ex's thinking, since towards the end of the marriage she made comments about me dying on public transportation, because of some double indemnity insurance clause, and she made a comment more than once about glass in my food! :eek: I suspect she was having the kinds of thoughts towards me that Charles Addams depicted in his New Yorker drawings (later, The Addams Family TV show, which was more humorous than macabre). Since m'Lady and I prefer to discuss idea, the people we prefer to hang out with are the ones who read books. Magazine articles just don't do it. :shrug: There is something to be applauded in this quote that is frequently found on my Facebook pages: "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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