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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Quote:
MajickMuffin said:
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moonrockmushy said: I've heard alot of controversy over the whole idea that this was a common occurrence in even the earliest organized military. Honestly if a bunch of tripping nomads went up against a roman army they would get stomped. I'm sure that some cults tripped and viciously raided villages, but I think alot of the berzerker thing is folklore and exaggeration.
'Berzerker' was common amongst the Vikings. I know of no other group that this was a common thing.
Know that Vikings (ancient German/Scandanavian)/first white people, were some giant motherfuckers.
Well you're the expert, but it sounds like you're buying into ancient propaganda. In any case I don't think any of us really need to take pride in what essentially would boil down to drugging soldiers so that they have more of a disregard for their own lives. Our lives are different, thank the gods.
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Re: Mushroom society ? [Re: Dilsnique]
#22088301 - 08/13/15 05:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dilsnique said: In the late 1950s, a mushroom society was founded in France by a race of blue fleshed pygmies.

i watched the smurfs once while trippin, didnt really enjoy it to say the least.. maybe it was the setting..
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MajickMuffin
Edible Cult


Registered: 05/28/14
Posts: 4,345
Loc: North
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
Quote:
MajickMuffin said:
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moonrockmushy said: I've heard alot of controversy over the whole idea that this was a common occurrence in even the earliest organized military. Honestly if a bunch of tripping nomads went up against a roman army they would get stomped. I'm sure that some cults tripped and viciously raided villages, but I think alot of the berzerker thing is folklore and exaggeration.
'Berzerker' was common amongst the Vikings. I know of no other group that this was a common thing.
Know that Vikings (ancient German/Scandanavian)/first white people, were some giant motherfuckers.
Well you're the expert, but it sounds like you're buying into ancient propaganda. In any case I don't think any of us really need to take pride in what essentially would boil down to drugging soldiers so that they have more of a disregard for their own lives. Our lives are different, thank the gods.
Buying into ancient propaganda because I know alot about my ancestors? Maybe the history isnt on point but i didnt read this shit from 'government written' history books. I went and did hefty research on the Vikings because I have a direct bloodline to them.
I wasnt taking pride in these acts, I said: "You should have defined that, said that, or known that if your going to speak about my ancestors." I was defending true history.
Just trying to clear that up Obviously because it means something to me.
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dionysiandame
Mischievous Maenad


Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 324
Loc: Samothrace
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: Outside of the world our ancestors lived in I don't think the whole cult of nature makes sense, and while you're in it psychedelics are unnecessary.
Why would a cult of nature not make sense? Don't we live in nature? Or are you of the mindset that modern Western society has become so mechanical that nature-based worship/religion no longer plays a role?
I'm interested in hearing more of your thoughts on this as on the one hand, I can kind of see how we no longer depend on nature as much as we used to (we can obtain food regardless of season and are pretty much protected from the "elements") but on the other hand we are still a part of nature and can suffer at its hands at any moment. Just throwing out thoughts.
-------------------- He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Quote:
MajickMuffin said:
Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
Quote:
MajickMuffin said:
Quote:
moonrockmushy said: I've heard alot of controversy over the whole idea that this was a common occurrence in even the earliest organized military. Honestly if a bunch of tripping nomads went up against a roman army they would get stomped. I'm sure that some cults tripped and viciously raided villages, but I think alot of the berzerker thing is folklore and exaggeration.
'Berzerker' was common amongst the Vikings. I know of no other group that this was a common thing.
Know that Vikings (ancient German/Scandanavian)/first white people, were some giant motherfuckers.
Well you're the expert, but it sounds like you're buying into ancient propaganda. In any case I don't think any of us really need to take pride in what essentially would boil down to drugging soldiers so that they have more of a disregard for their own lives. Our lives are different, thank the gods.
Buying into ancient propaganda because I know alot about my ancestors? Maybe the history isnt on point but i didnt read this shit from 'government written' history books. I went and did hefty research on the Vikings because I have a direct bloodline to them.
I wasnt taking pride in these acts, I said: "You should have defined that, said that, or known that if your going to speak about my ancestors." I was defending true history.
Just trying to clear that up Obviously because it means something to me.
many native americans were known to take peyote before battle. for example, geronimo, that dude was crazy. he'd eat peyote before going into battle against the settlers, they say he'd run straight into direct gun fire with his horse and the bullets would never hit him.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Quote:
dionysiandame said:
Quote:
moonrockmushy said: Outside of the world our ancestors lived in I don't think the whole cult of nature makes sense, and while you're in it psychedelics are unnecessary.
Why would a cult of nature not make sense? Don't we live in nature? Or are you of the mindset that modern Western society has become so mechanical that nature-based worship/religion no longer plays a role?
I'm interested in hearing more of your thoughts on this as on the one hand, I can kind of see how we no longer depend on nature as much as we used to (we can obtain food regardless of season and are pretty much protected from the "elements") but on the other hand we are still a part of nature and can suffer at its hands at any moment. Just throwing out thoughts.
Well I think that taking psychedelics is often sold as that timeless and authentic experience when it isn't. In my mind if you're taking the same drugs and coming to the same conclusions as your ancestors, you're either deluding yourself or doing something wrong. The cult of nature exists, but the people saying there is a shortcut that will allow you to work a mind numbing 9-5 job and then be in touch with nature on the weekends through the wonders of drugs seems like a poor compromise to me. It's got to be something you're in all the time, and most people can't trip that much.
I take issue with the whole "my ancestors" line given that most of what is going on is having a few details of dubious substance and filling in the blanks as we see fit. Taking mushrooms and going into war isn't something that is inherited through genetics anyway, it is a highly circumstantial thing.
In terms of taking drugs and having ideas we are all equally connected so far as we can communicate these ideas, so the whole notion of 'how dare you claim to know more of my ancestors than me' is kinda silly considering we are all human and we all have ancestors who took drugs and worshiped things. Nobody needs to prove anything on that front, we've all got ancestors and that doesn't matter in terms of discussing history.
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dionysiandame
Mischievous Maenad


Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 324
Loc: Samothrace
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
Well I think that taking psychedelics is often sold as that timeless and authentic experience when it isn't.
It may not be the case for some mystery religions but for others it most certainly was. Take the Rites of Eleusis for example, though a better citation would probably be Jane Harrison's Prolegomena to the Study of Greek Religion(I attempted to do a search for Kykeon as an example and used that as the link, if it doesn't work, please let me know and I'll fix if).
The notion that some cults used psychoactive substances can be substantiated by the historical record BUT...as you already eloquently stated;
Quote:
In my mind if you're taking the same drugs and coming to the same conclusions as your ancestors, you're either deluding yourself or doing something wrong.
You have no ideas the amount of feels this statement gives me, especially as a person who was a member of a reconstructionist religious movement and felt a bit uncomfortable with how tightly some were attempting to stick to ancient records when many of these religious practices do not fit into our modern day lives. America doesn't have civic religion ala Rome or Greece, for example.
You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, in my opinion, with this statement. The whole point of mystery traditions were for the individuals involed to achieve gnosis of the divine that would specifically speak to them. Hence the "split" between say, regular Hellenic household worship and Orphism and the ideologies that followed. There is no logical reason why I, a woman in the modern era, should have the same religious/spiritual experience as a woman in ancient Greece; ESPECIALLY when imbibing a psychoactive.
At that rate, I wouldn't be participating in a rite, I would be reading from a script; which completely defeats the purpose.
Sorry...I didn't mean to go on a tangent there.
Quote:
The cult of nature exists, but the people saying there is a shortcut that will allow you to work a mind numbing 9-5 job and then be in touch with nature on the weekends through the wonders of drugs seems like a poor compromise to me. It's got to be something you're in all the time, and most people can't trip that much.
I agree with you here as well and but will, with respect, point out that the purpose of initiation and the preparation periods before these rituals was partially for purification but ALSO to get the mind into the right frame for the rite.
This did allow "city dwellers" to experience the mysteries on a similar playing field as their pastoral brethren, but this step is probably skipped as well in modern psychedelic sessions. To me, what's missing in the modern "conversation" is context, the fact that people fasted, cleansed, bathed, worshiped,and sacrificed before taking part in these mysteries and most of us cannot say we do the same.
So while the historical content may point to the use of psychoactives, bringing it up in the modern setting is pointless as we lack the level of ritual and mythology that went along with the practice. Furthermore, we often lack the training and framework to assimilate the religious/spiritual experience that can accompany the use.
There.
Rant done.
LOL!
-------------------- He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 11,904
Loc: All Good in Allgood
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Quote:
MajickMuffin said:
When people say 'mushrooms' speaking of entheogens, what will people think of? = Magic Mushrooms (psilocybin), which is why I said he should have atleast DEFINED that.

Sounds like you're just jumping to conclusions 
A mushroom is a mushroom
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Quote:
MajickMuffin said:
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dionysiandame said:
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MajickMuffin said:
Bro. The Berzerkers (viking warriors) would use Amanita Muscaria. You should have defined that, said that, or known that if your going to speak about my ancestors. Do some fucking research!
I'm not your bro. I don't know what makes your ancestors so special that not just saying "mushrooms" as "a psychoactive substance" was sufficient considering the context of the conversation. I didn't mention the ingredients of kykeon either, but I don't see any Greeks beating their dicks about it. Have a cathedral of seats please.
Would you even be able to kill a fly while tripping on Psilocybin mushrooms? Would you even be able to kill 1 person, or even consider it?
This is why I say this, because to relate 'Berzerking', slaughtering people, to Psilocybin mushrooms is complete and utter idiocy. Its not even possible IMO.
You could stomp my head on mushrooms and i'd get back up sober not so much 
also not understanding someone just chopped your arm off and then becoming pissed the fuck off is not fathomable?
AKA shut up hippie
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 11,904
Loc: All Good in Allgood
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Mushroom society ? [Re: Beanhead]
#22088626 - 08/13/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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If anything, it'd be a lot easier to kill someone on a big dose of psilocybin.
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already



Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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If you let yourself snap.. for sure. I do know if you let yourself get in a certain frame of mind it can be hard to snap out. I've read about it, I've seen it, been there. If it was that kind of violence I'd imagine something akin to a pack of wolves chasing a bleeding deer.
Amanitas make a lot more sense, I felt pretty edgy on them. Smoking the skins weren't too bad though.
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MajickMuffin
Edible Cult


Registered: 05/28/14
Posts: 4,345
Loc: North
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Ouch. Someones got a little sand in their vagene tonight huh
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 11,904
Loc: All Good in Allgood
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Quote:
MajickMuffin said: Ouch. Someones got a little sand in their vagene tonight huh
What makes you say that? Because I disagree with you?
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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MajickMuffin
Edible Cult


Registered: 05/28/14
Posts: 4,345
Loc: North
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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No I was referring to Beanhead
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Quote:
ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Quote:
MajickMuffin said: Ouch. Someones got a little sand in their vagene tonight huh
What makes you say that? Because I disagree with you? 
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Quote:
dionysiandame said: .... I agree with you here as well and but will, with respect, point out that the purpose of initiation and the preparation periods before these rituals was partially for purification but ALSO to get the mind into the right frame for the rite.
This did allow "city dwellers" to experience the mysteries on a similar playing field as their pastoral brethren, but this step is probably skipped as well in modern psychedelic sessions. To me, what's missing in the modern "conversation" is context, the fact that people fasted, cleansed, bathed, worshiped,and sacrificed before taking part in these mysteries and most of us cannot say we do the same.
So while the historical content may point to the use of psychoactives, bringing it up in the modern setting is pointless as we lack the level of ritual and mythology that went along with the practice. Furthermore, we often lack the training and framework to assimilate the religious/spiritual experience that can accompany the use.
There.
Rant done.
LOL!
I'm impressed with your knowledge of ancient religious rites, and this insight here is great as well to me. One of the things that kind of steered me away from psychedelics as a lifestyle, and this came to me when I was travelling around with all my belongings on my back and living in a hammock in the woods, I felt like I was on the verge of understanding, but the catch was that I could not communicate this to others.
If I ever had a spiritual moment, the vision involved healing the world, which I know is sappy and totally cliche but that is just the simplest way to put it. Anyway I feel like if I am to help others I can't be going off myself to some plane beyond, that is not who I am. I need to understand people and where they are coming from, and psychedelics do not always facilitate this. People need more help than a momentary glimpse at something unintelligible.
I'm always conflicted because I think everything good and bad comes out of this "spirituality" which is in some way detached from nature. Even in American history, religion inspired our art, music, and civil culture, but also brings about our deepest fears and hatred. Whatever it is, it's important and I don't want to leave it in the hands of people who are not really looking to find something to share with people, but who are looking for something to give them power over people.
Thanks for the responses hail Dionysis!
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MajickMuffin
Edible Cult


Registered: 05/28/14
Posts: 4,345
Loc: North
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Mushroom society ? [Re: Beanhead]
#22090104 - 08/14/15 06:31 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beanhead said:
Quote:
ThatKidWithTheFace said:
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MajickMuffin said: Ouch. Someones got a little sand in their vagene tonight huh
What makes you say that? Because I disagree with you? 
Quote: "AKA shut up hippie"
...
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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you offended?
wah.
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MajickMuffin
Edible Cult


Registered: 05/28/14
Posts: 4,345
Loc: North
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Mushroom society ? [Re: Beanhead]
#22090371 - 08/14/15 08:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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No. That's just why I said that.
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Eggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 3,097
Last seen: 4 days, 27 minutes
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-------------------- It's all for the s
Edited by Eggtimer (08/14/15 09:10 AM)
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