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polishfarmer
Stranger


Registered: 03/04/07
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Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Integrity of Paul Stamets? whats up with fungi perfecti? blower/hepa filter math discourse
#22085090 - 08/13/15 06:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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so while i was discussing filters and blowers with a technician from fungi perfecti.. He basically tells me that i need to buy a blower that i think is twice as powerful as needed. he throws stamets name around which i then quoted him straight back from stamets book the "Mushroom Cultivator" pointing out that what he was telling me was incorrect and grossly exaggerated... he didnt email me back after that..
am i missing something here?
looking at the fungi perfecti site.. they only have 2 or 3 blowers for application to their filters. They seem grossly overpriced. not to mention stamets spawn samples which he sells for 6x more than anyone else... Like literally 120$ for different mushroom spawn samples and cultures.. it makes me lol. especially considering the fact that you can basically grow mushrooms indefinitely until the end of time as long as a medium is provided... haha. I feel like all this inspires me to question the integrity of him and this company..
here is the email
Thank you for your call, we appreciate your interest in our products. First, for sterile culture you want an air speed of 150-400 fpm off the face of the filter, so divide your blower's CFM @1" by the area of the filter to estimate the fpm. The formula is detailed in both of Paul's books The Mushroom Cultivator and Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms. Our EAFB2 (FP's Universal Blower) offers 1,040cfm @0.8" sp. so it is more than enough for our 24x24" filter. Once you add a pre filter to the mix, your total static pressure will be closer to 1.2", reducing the total air flow to well below 1000cfm. Divide by 4sq ft, and you will find your air flow rapidly approaching 200fpm (on the lower end of the fpm scale.) Also, as dust accumulates, your static pressure also increases. By the time your filter needs replacing your static pressure will have doubled, and you want your blower to be able to handle the additional pressure while providing adequate flow. From a recent customer: "I use this blower with my HEPA filter 24x24 and i get 118 cfm out of the face of my flow hood"

For these reasons the EAFB2 is ideal for our 24x24 filter. Let me know if you have any further questions.
and here is my reply which i got no answer to...
Really? Stamets says " ideally that number will be 100 fpm, the optimum range for air velocity in laminar flow systems" Pg 350 Line 16
I also read that your blower should be 20% more powerful than necessary. To compensate for things like prefilter, dust and degridation of blower output over time
So for a 24x24 That would be 400cfm + 20% or 80 cfm For a total of 480cfm...
I dont see how yall are recomending a 1000 cfm blower?
I would most likely have to cover the flow hood input partially to reduce the airflow with a blower like that...
Now am I wrong? did I miss something? I've been trying to research and understand all this very well.. but it seems to me like fungi perfecti likes to take advantage of people.. ?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Integrity of Paul Stamets? whats up with fungi perfecti? blower/hepa filter math discourse [Re: polishfarmer]
#22085107 - 08/13/15 07:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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If I was to make a FH, I'd aim for a higher than needed cfm because of the reasons they gave. You only want it to be coming out the filter at half a meter a second. So if it were me, I'd have the blower in a series circuit with a variable resistor. I'd then increase or decrease resistance until the air coming from the filter is .5m/s. As the filter gets clogged or whatever, you can reduce the resistance to keep it at .5m/s. But I'd probably get a used blower.
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mushmagic
supporting radical habits



Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 5,372
Loc: Candyland
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Re: Integrity of Paul Stamets? whats up with fungi perfecti? blower/hepa filter math discourse [Re: Mad Season]
#22085122 - 08/13/15 07:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Also you sure it's 120$ for just a spawn sample? Because I'm looking at one or their magazine catalogs right now and am not seeing that I was also just at an expo like a month ago where they had a booth set up and were selling bags full of colonized dowels for 10-15$ and in the catalog their shiitake and pearl oyster spawn bags are $20 not $120?? Or was the added 1 a typo?
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Trade list in journal (partially under construction; more to be added) Don't judge a man by what kinda shoes he in, judge a man on where that man's shoes been.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Integrity of Paul Stamets? whats up with fungi perfecti? blower/hepa filter math discourse [Re: mushmagic]
#22085151 - 08/13/15 07:24 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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if ur asking is the blower is fine, yes it is. u might be getting cfm and fpm confused.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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polishfarmer
Stranger


Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 143
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Integrity of Paul Stamets? whats up with fungi perfecti? blower/hepa filter math discourse [Re: blindingleaf]
#22088366 - 08/13/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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http://www.fungi.com/shop/pure-mushroom-spawn-and-cultures/in-vitro-mushroom-cultures.html $125 thats for the culture..
i lied.. the spawn is $70... which is still 3 times more than anywhere else. http://www.fungi.com/shop/pure-mushroom-spawn-and-cultures/mushroom-grain-spawn.html
the technician recommended this blower. its 1,040 cfm http://www.fungi.com/product-detail/product/universal-blower-1040-cfm-8-sp.html
but doing the math I come up with needing only a 480 cfm blower. and thats factoring in 20% more than i need
So for a 24x24 filter That would be 400cfm + 20% or 80 cfm For a total of 480cfm..
they are basing the 1040 CFM blower off of 150-400 FPM off the face of the filter.
stamets says in his book that ideal is 100 FPM...
so am I correct or is the technician correct?
note that stamets technician from fungi perfecti is misquoting stamets... which i dont understand..
Edited by polishfarmer (08/13/15 05:50 PM)
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
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Re: Integrity of Paul Stamets? whats up with fungi perfecti? blower/hepa filter math discourse [Re: polishfarmer]
#22088381 - 08/13/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I did the same math, Bought the 480 CFM and regretted it.
I now have a blower that I have no use for. Save your self the hassle and listen to the technician. If you don't like that guy, buy a blower somewhere else, but trust me more is better. The other thing people don't factor in is the space between the back of the filter inside the flow hood and the back of the chamber. The larger the volume the more constant cfm you will need to get accurate air pressure blowing across the entire face of the filter forcing the air out evenly.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
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Re: Integrity of Paul Stamets? whats up with fungi perfecti? blower/hepa filter math discourse [Re: polishfarmer]
#22088420 - 08/13/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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u (OP and fungi perfecti) are both right. ur math is correct 100%.
but u want to take the blowers cfm (which is 1040 @ .8 SP) and divide it by the area of your filter (24x24= 4 sq ft) 1040/4= 260 FPM off face of filter. with a pre filter, and the possibility that it will be blowing against 1" of SP from HEPA, will bring that down a little too.
you are correct that in TMC he says 100 FPM, and thats what all the TEKs shoot for, but its just a minimum suggestion. laminar flow is a principle, not a specific FPM. if the FPM off the filter face is equal coming out of all parts (top, left, upper right, etc) then laminar flow has been achieved. he is saying that u can go up to 400FPM for sterile culture work, and still be safe, which i have seen in other books as well/orchid workers. mine blows at 270 off face of filter, and its fine. if u don't have a nice, air tight legit lab, a stronger flow is probably better anyway IMO, because u don't want anything coming in from above or on the sides, and the increased FPM will help that cause more than a 100FPM flow.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Green Bastard
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Re: Integrity of Paul Stamets? whats up with fungi perfecti? blower/hepa filter math discourse [Re: blindingleaf]
#22089543 - 08/13/15 11:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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For what it's worth, I bought that exact blower, from them, and paired it with their 24"x36" filter. I stacked 2 small furnace filters, for the prefilter, and have achieved perfect laminar flow. No discernible contams yet, on over 150 plates, and over 200 jars...
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Alkaloids
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine



Registered: 11/15/98
Posts: 743
Loc: pubis mons
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Re: Integrity of Paul Stamets? whats up with fungi perfecti? blower/hepa filter math discourse [Re: blindingleaf]
#22089866 - 08/14/15 02:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
blindingleaf said: u (OP and fungi perfecti) are both right. ur math is correct 100%.
but u want to take the blowers cfm (which is 1040 @ .8 SP) and divide it by the area of your filter (24x24= 4 sq ft) 1040/4= 260 FPM off face of filter. with a pre filter, and the possibility that it will be blowing against 1" of SP from HEPA, will bring that down a little too.
you are correct that in TMC he says 100 FPM, and thats what all the TEKs shoot for, but its just a minimum suggestion. laminar flow is a principle, not a specific FPM. if the FPM off the filter face is equal coming out of all parts (top, left, upper right, etc) then laminar flow has been achieved. he is saying that u can go up to 400FPM for sterile culture work, and still be safe, which i have seen in other books as well/orchid workers. mine blows at 270 off face of filter, and its fine. if u don't have a nice, air tight legit lab, a stronger flow is probably better anyway IMO, because u don't want anything coming in from above or on the sides, and the increased FPM will help that cause more than a 100FPM flow.
100 FPM is too slow in my opinion. Airflow rate is set between 150FPM minimum and i have not run mine at more than 250-275fmp. In real bioscience laboratories i have worked in the FPM was closer to 250 fpm and that was in an enclosed hood.
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polishfarmer
Stranger


Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 143
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Integrity of Paul Stamets? whats up with fungi perfecti? blower/hepa filter math discourse [Re: polishfarmer]
#22091021 - 08/14/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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wow guys thanks for the clear info. I really appreciate it.
Helps me out alot.
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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Re: Integrity of Paul Stamets? whats up with fungi perfecti? blower/hepa filter math discourse [Re: polishfarmer]
#22091644 - 08/14/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
polishfarmer said: so while i was discussing filters and blowers with a technician from fungi perfecti.. He basically tells me that i need to buy a blower that i think is twice as powerful as needed. he throws stamets name around which i then quoted him straight back from stamets book the "Mushroom Cultivator" pointing out that what he was telling me was incorrect and grossly exaggerated... he didnt email me back after that..
am i missing something here?
looking at the fungi perfecti site.. they only have 2 or 3 blowers for application to their filters. They seem grossly overpriced. not to mention stamets spawn samples which he sells for 6x more than anyone else... Like literally 120$ for different mushroom spawn samples and cultures.. it makes me lol. especially considering the fact that you can basically grow mushrooms indefinitely until the end of time as long as a medium is provided... haha. I feel like all this inspires me to question the integrity of him and this company..
Staments is, among other things, a businessman. Businessmen like to make money. It's hard for businessmen sometimes to distinguish what is good for a customer from what is good for business.
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Integrity of Paul Stamets? whats up with fungi perfecti? blower/hepa filter math discourse [Re: champinhom]
#22094354 - 08/15/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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wanted to post this earlier, but home boy who had the meter was hung over and asleep

270 FPM. works perfect for me.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Nature Boy
Stranger than most



Registered: 07/09/07
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Re: Integrity of Paul Stamets? whats up with fungi perfecti? blower/hepa filter math discourse [Re: blindingleaf]
#22094437 - 08/15/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have one of the FungiPerfect flow hoods and it functions perfectly. Had it so long I've long since forgotten the specs...one thing is for certain, my rate of contamination is completely acceptable to me. I run it all night prior to any G2G or inoculation work and have rarely had any problems (maybe 5% contam).
I have to concur with what others have said. You will be happier with the more powerful blower. You can always dial it down. Yo can never go UP in performance with a too-weak one.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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