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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Tipote] 4
#22831248 - 01/27/16 04:55 PM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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Zappa doesn't answer questions. That's for bums. Zappa asks questions.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Tipote]
#22831526 - 01/27/16 06:15 PM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said: why don't you answer the question, zappa?
What question?
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 26 minutes, 36 seconds
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod]
#22831531 - 01/27/16 06:16 PM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I'm still incredibly anxious to see how Iowa turns out on Monday. RCP has Bernie over Hillary using their poll average, but the disparity support amongst first time caucus goers compared to repeat caucus goers between the two candidates its HUGE. What its going to come down to is whether young voters turn out to caucus, simple as that. On the flip side, it has been 8 years since Iowa dems have really needed to caucus, so its not like voter apathy plays into that all too much (its simply inability).
On the bright side, Bernie has all the momentum, and he's had a pretty bad week in the media, what with CNN and others plastering SANDERS WILL RAISE TAXES everywhere (without explaining he's only doing so to save Americans money). So overall I like his chances. New Hampshire is all but locked up, and recent polls have him back only 3 points in Nevada. Not a lot of delegates in Nevada, but a landslide win in NH and then a win in Iowa should put him over the edge there as well. The biggest concern is South Carolina, the southern fireall, where Bernie still (despite a 17 point swing in his favor over the past ~45 days) trails by 20 points.
If Bernie can win the first 3 states, and even come close in South Carolina, he has a chance to steal some states on Super Tuesday. But even though his net favorability among non-whites is now tied with Hillary nationwide, the black vote is still the key to his nomination. And lets face facts, Bernie simply won't be able to mobilize the black vote like Obama did.
Make no mistake guys, this is still a huge longshot. Although anyone paying attention knows that winning the nomination would be the toughest battle.
When is the last time a non-incumbent won Iowa primary in either party and then won general election? Simmer down. The importance of Iowa and NH is a media fiction.
What part of my post did you interpret as overconfidence in Sanders' nomination chances?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22831534 - 01/27/16 06:17 PM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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Where did I talk about the primary
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 26 minutes, 36 seconds
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod] 3
#22831545 - 01/27/16 06:21 PM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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"The importance of Iowa and NH is a media fiction."
Is this in relation to something other than the primaries?
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod]
#22831613 - 01/27/16 06:42 PM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: the summary is that empirical studies have clearly shown that a 10% increase in minimum wage will only increase overall prices by up to 0.4%
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Why is it nonsensical? You say a higher minimum wage is de facto better for the economy. So make it higher. Make it a trillion dollars an hour. Your argument is and always has been bullshit. You should get paid exactly what your job is worth. That is best determined by the market.
I don't think showing a small increase in wage resulting in a fractional increase in price is an argument that increasing wages is de facto better for the economy. That's a clever strawman tho.
I would also like to point out that "the market" is hardly controlled by the end consumer but more of a marriage of state and corporations. Most simply, if the market were truly controlled by the end consumer we wouldn't have these bullshit cable/internet/cellular packages.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#22831826 - 01/27/16 07:38 PM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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zappaisgod said: I haven't ever lost a debate on that issue.
I just pointed you to five debates you lost on the issue.
Umm no
Umm, yes. Here, here, here, here, and here.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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zappaisgod said: Further, me saying your understanding of economics is abysmal is not an ad hominem attack. It is a plain fact.
It is ad hominem if you fail to back yourself up with logic which you haven't done (as Tipote alrady noted). Could you please explain how is a wage increase bad for consumers, or move to the kindeegarten forum?
Raises the prices of goods and drives producers off shore
ONCE AGAIN, empirical studies have clearly shown that a 10% increase in minimum wage will only increase overall prices by up to 0.4%. That's based on empirical evidence, not opinions.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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zappaisgod said: Why not raise the minimum wage to a billion dollars an hour if it's so helpful? Ignorance. No bliss.
That's like telling Martin Shkreli if raising the price of a pill to $750 is good for his business, then he should raise it to $1 billion per pill. I'm really disappointed in your complete lack of business sense.
I don't understand why other manufacturers weren't making the pill. It had no patent protection.
Nice attempt to dodge your failure at understanding basic economics with a red herring. Even if there were a patent, it would STILL be foolish to charge $1 billion a pill. Just like it would be foolish to raise minimum wage to $1 billion. As already shown, a small increase wouldn't hurt jobs (and would greatly improve people's standard of living).
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: You yourself already pointed out:
Quote:
CBO: Raise the min wage by 40%, total employment falls by 0.3%. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44995-MinimumWage.pdf …
A short term 0.3% gain in unemployment is NOTHING compared to a 40% wage increase.
But that too has repeatedly been pointed out to you.
I love their opinions.
Apparently you do, as you are the one who provided it in the first place to support a previous argument. And an estimate by the CBO is hardly an "opinion". Read the Appendices if you want to better understand the CBO rationale.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: We are already seeing mass flight. You want more. That man is an idiot.
Actually, many liberals, such as Robert Reich (who Bernie frequently cites on his Facebook page) and myself, would like to completely eliminate the corporate tax. Just so you know.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 26 minutes, 36 seconds
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 2
#22833284 - 01/28/16 07:53 AM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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I feel like zappa is getting lazy lately. Its no fun when you dont try dude
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 19 hours
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod]
#22833371 - 01/28/16 08:21 AM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
sweeper54 said: Oh I don't know, how about when assholes raises the price 5000% on a drug just because they can.
Or it cost some in the US $100 a pill and anywhere else is a 25¢.
The asshole in question was able to raise the price that much because nobody else was willing to make even though the patent was long expired. The reason a pill is cheaper is because the US subsidizes it.
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/21523_10154511593087908_7444763326115156245_n.png?oh=bb72c69f73f174ea0183633b94ca2c9c&oe=573607AA
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: sweeper54]
#22833585 - 01/28/16 09:47 AM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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It is well known that the rest of the world has sucked off of American health care.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22833622 - 01/28/16 10:01 AM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Why not raise the minimum wage to a billion dollars an hour if it's so helpful? Ignorance. No bliss.
That's like telling Martin Shkreli if raising the price of a pill to $750 is good for his business, then he should raise it to $1 billion per pill. I'm really disappointed in your complete lack of business sense.
I don't understand why other manufacturers weren't making the pill. It had no patent protection.
Nice attempt to dodge your failure at understanding basic economics with a red herring. Even if there were a patent, it would STILL be foolish to charge $1 billion a pill. Just like it would be foolish to raise minimum wage to $1 billion. As already shown, a small increase wouldn't hurt jobs (and would greatly improve people's standard of living).
It would have a positive effect on very few people. Some of them would make a tiny bit more and many of them would make absolutely nothing. Do you know why the auto industry is so automated? Because of labor costs.Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: You yourself already pointed out:
Quote:
CBO: Raise the min wage by 40%, total employment falls by 0.3%. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44995-MinimumWage.pdf …
A short term 0.3% gain in unemployment is NOTHING compared to a 40% wage increase.
But that too has repeatedly been pointed out to you.
I love their opinions.
Apparently you do, as you are the one who provided it in the first place to support a previous argument. And an estimate by the CBO is hardly an "opinion". Read the Appendices if you want to better understand the CBO rationale.
What did I say about the report? That it doesn't mention the effect on prices. The CBO sure shit the bed on their estimates of the cost of Obamacare. All estimates are, by definition, opinions. The CBO isn't doing real great in that prediction business.Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: We are already seeing mass flight. You want more. That man is an idiot.
Actually, many liberals, such as Robert Reich (who Bernie frequently cites on his Facebook page) and myself, would like to completely eliminate the corporate tax. Just so you know.
Right. And raise capital gains taxes. No difference.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod]
#22833896 - 01/28/16 11:20 AM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: As already shown, a small wage increase wouldn't hurt jobs (and would greatly improve people's standard of living).
It would have a positive effect on very few people. Some of them would make a tiny bit more and many of them would make absolutely nothing.
~42% of the country currently makes less than $15/hour. I don't know how you can possibly consider that "very few people". And for those currently making ~$10/hour or less, I don't know how you can possibly consider a 50%+ wage increase to be "a tiny bit more". Maybe a $5/hour raise isn't much for you and I, but it means A LOT to someone making under $10/hour.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
CBO: Raise the min wage by 40%, total employment falls by 0.3%. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44995-MinimumWage.pdf …
What did I say about the report? That it doesn't mention the effect on prices.
And I provided the effects on pricing based on empirical (real world) evidence.
Quote:
Despite the different methodologies, data periods and data sources, most studies found that a 10% US minimum wage increase raises food prices by no more than 4% and overall prices by no more than 0.4%.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Actually, many liberals, such as Robert Reich (who Bernie frequently cites on his Facebook page) and myself, would like to completely eliminate the corporate tax. Just so you know.
Right. And raise capital gains taxes. No difference.
No difference in total Government revenue, but a HUGE difference for the corporation. They'd get to keep way more money to do with as they please. They could pay their executives more, or their shareholders more, or even their employees more.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 26 minutes, 36 seconds
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#22834343 - 01/28/16 01:43 PM (8 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: It is well known that the rest of the world has sucked off of American health care.
If thats true, at least we can take in solace in the fact that we invented all the components of the healthcare system that the rest of the world has then properly implemented.
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 19 hours
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod]
#22834919 - 01/28/16 04:36 PM (8 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: It is well known that the rest of the world has sucked off of American health care.
So WE have to pay for that?
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 2 minutes, 24 seconds
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22835956 - 01/28/16 08:30 PM (8 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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zappaisgod said: I haven't ever lost a debate on that issue.
I just pointed you to five debates you lost on the issue.
Umm no
Umm, yes. Here, here, here, here, and here.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Further, me saying your understanding of economics is abysmal is not an ad hominem attack. It is a plain fact.
It is ad hominem if you fail to back yourself up with logic which you haven't done (as Tipote alrady noted). Could you please explain how is a wage increase bad for consumers, or move to the kindeegarten forum?
Raises the prices of goods and drives producers off shore
ONCE AGAIN, empirical studies have clearly shown that a 10% increase in minimum wage will only increase overall prices by up to 0.4%. That's based on empirical evidence, not opinions.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Why not raise the minimum wage to a billion dollars an hour if it's so helpful? Ignorance. No bliss.
That's like telling Martin Shkreli if raising the price of a pill to $750 is good for his business, then he should raise it to $1 billion per pill. I'm really disappointed in your complete lack of business sense.
I don't understand why other manufacturers weren't making the pill. It had no patent protection.
Nice attempt to dodge your failure at understanding basic economics with a red herring. Even if there were a patent, it would STILL be foolish to charge $1 billion a pill. Just like it would be foolish to raise minimum wage to $1 billion. As already shown, a small increase wouldn't hurt jobs (and would greatly improve people's standard of living).
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: You yourself already pointed out:
Quote:
CBO: Raise the min wage by 40%, total employment falls by 0.3%. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44995-MinimumWage.pdf …
A short term 0.3% gain in unemployment is NOTHING compared to a 40% wage increase.
But that too has repeatedly been pointed out to you.
I love their opinions.
Apparently you do, as you are the one who provided it in the first place to support a previous argument. And an estimate by the CBO is hardly an "opinion". Read the Appendices if you want to better understand the CBO rationale.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: We are already seeing mass flight. You want more. That man is an idiot.
Actually, many liberals, such as Robert Reich (who Bernie frequently cites on his Facebook page) and myself, would like to completely eliminate the corporate tax. Just so you know.
 Falcon... Always tearin shit up round here. Kinda like a boss.
Zappa appears to be worse than HU, but then again, at least he switches it up with the logical fallacies.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 2 minutes, 24 seconds
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22835979 - 01/28/16 08:34 PM (8 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: It is well known that the rest of the world has sucked off of American health care.
If thats true, at least we can take in solace in the fact that we invented all the components of the healthcare system that the rest of the world has then properly implemented.
It's not even true. Guys like Martin Skreli like to pretend that they are going to 'reinvest the profits in research', but they are fucking pocketing it. This is yet another issue where the leaches of our society (the corporate class) are sucking the blood out of the marrow of our society (the working class). The wealthy in this country are fucking leaches. Sucking our shitty fucking system dry.
We're flipping this coin. Bernie Sanders will suck their fucking ass dry if we have anything to say about it. Fuck corporate welfare. We don't need a leach class that doesn't add any value to our society.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (01/28/16 08:35 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#22836092 - 01/28/16 08:50 PM (8 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
 Falcon... Always tearin shit up round here. Kinda like a boss.
Thanks wooof! I appreciate that (or even just a '+1'). 
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Zappa appears to be worse than HU, but then again, at least he switches it up with the logical fallacies.
He used to pretty good, but as his party became batshit crazy, it's just tough to support their nonsense anymore.
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Guys like Martin Skreli like to pretend that they are going to 'reinvest the profits in research', but they are fucking pocketing it. This is yet another issue where the leaches of our society (the corporate class) are sucking the blood out of the marrow of our society (the working class). The wealthy in this country are fucking leaches. Sucking our shitty fucking system dry.
Amen, brother. 
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: We're flipping this coin. Bernie Sanders will suck their fucking ass dry if we have anything to say about it. Fuck corporate welfare. We don't need a leach class that doesn't add any value to our society.
I sure hope so. Vegas still has Clinton winning in Iowa. Hopefully Sanders has more enthusiastic voters who show up Monday.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 2 minutes, 24 seconds
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22836385 - 01/28/16 09:51 PM (8 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I sure hope so. Vegas still has Clinton winning in Iowa. Hopefully Sanders has more enthusiastic voters who show up Monday.
I don't know what all those numbers mean. I'm not a gambler. However, I'm quite sure Bernie will take Iowa, and I wish I could put money on that, because the world thinks he won't. I feel like my opinion is more informed than most on this race. I have been watching it every day.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 2 minutes, 24 seconds
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22836389 - 01/28/16 09:52 PM (8 years, 2 days ago) |
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How's the phone banking going, brother?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22836396 - 01/28/16 09:53 PM (8 years, 2 days ago) |
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I was under the assumption it's illegal to bet on politics at least above board.
Making odds is just like basic Algerbra gotta balance out the equation. They want it so they win no matter what (they get a 10% rake anyway). I wouldn't trust Vegas on politics.
Much crazier things have happened in Iowa. Didn't Santorum win there?
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