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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22829942 - 01/27/16 10:11 AM (8 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:


Interestingly, most of Bernie's gain from yesterday comes from O'Malley losses.




if O'Malley supporters break toward Bernie at the caucus, that should be enough to squeak out a thin victory.  Keep in mind, that a candidate needs 15 percent of the vote in any given precinct in order for their votes to be counted.  If any candidate fails to garner 15 percent, their supporters have the option of standing with one of the remaining candidates.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22830052 - 01/27/16 10:42 AM (8 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:


Interestingly, most of Bernie's gain from yesterday comes from O'Malley losses.




if O'Malley supporters break toward Bernie at the caucus, that should be enough to squeak out a thin victory.  Keep in mind, that a candidate needs 15 percent of the vote in any given precinct in order for their votes to be counted.  If any candidate fails to garner 15 percent, their supporters have the option of standing with one of the remaining candidates.





According to a recent CNN/ORC poll, MO'M supporters favor Sanders to Clinton about 2:1.

Not sure if you guys are familiar with the fine print of the Iowa caucus process, but if O'Malley doesnt get more than 15% in any district (might be precinct), then his eventual delegates would then be passed on to O'Malley caucusers' second choice: which seems to be Sanders.

So here's to Hillary supporters staying home, Sanders supporters turning out, and O'Malley just barely existing!


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Tipote]
    #22830237 - 01/27/16 11:37 AM (8 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
Bernie is the only sane option out of this election, that doesnt guarantee his victory though. I've been watching US politics for longer than 5 mins and thats all it takes to realise it is insane.




Bernie is a bum panderer.  If you think most Americans are bums then you think Bernie will win.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod] * 3
    #22830376 - 01/27/16 12:14 PM (8 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Tipote said:
Bernie is the only sane option out of this election, that doesnt guarantee his victory though. I've been watching US politics for longer than 5 mins and thats all it takes to realise it is insane.




Bernie is a bum panderer.  If you think most Americans are bums then you think Bernie will win.




This is the first national election cycle where millenials voters will significantly outnumber baby boomers. So thanks, but your antiquated opinions are no longer necessary.

Go enjoy whatever entitlement programs you've yet to suck dry.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #22830382 - 01/27/16 12:16 PM (8 years, 4 days ago)

In Bernie news:

24,000 bums showed up to see Bernie in St. Paul last night.

Here's a picture of JUST the overflow room:



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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod] * 3
    #22830396 - 01/27/16 12:21 PM (8 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Bernie is a bum panderer.  If you think most Americans are bums then you think Bernie will win.



Zappa's the only one who thinks most Americans are bums.  Keep in mind that to zappa, anyone who is not a business owner like he is, is a BUM.

Bernie actually wants to increase wages for workers, so they no longer have to rely on the Government for handouts.  That's good for the taxpayer.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #22830415 - 01/27/16 12:27 PM (8 years, 4 days ago)

I'm still incredibly anxious to see how Iowa turns out on Monday. RCP has Bernie over Hillary using their poll average, but the disparity support amongst first time caucus goers compared to repeat caucus goers between the two candidates its HUGE. What its going to come down to is whether young voters turn out to caucus, simple as that.  On the flip side, it has been 8 years since Iowa dems have really needed to caucus, so its not like voter apathy plays into that all too much (its simply inability).

On the bright side, Bernie has all the momentum, and he's had a pretty bad week in the media, what with CNN and others plastering SANDERS WILL RAISE TAXES everywhere (without explaining he's only doing so to save Americans money). So overall I like his chances. New Hampshire is all but locked up, and recent polls have him back only 3 points in Nevada. Not a lot of delegates in Nevada, but a landslide win in NH and then a win in Iowa should put him over the edge there as well. The biggest concern is South Carolina, the southern fireall, where Bernie still (despite a 17 point swing in his favor over the past ~45 days) trails by 20 points.

If Bernie can win the first 3 states, and even come close in South Carolina, he has a chance to steal some states on Super Tuesday. But even though his net favorability among non-whites is now tied with Hillary nationwide, the black vote is still the key to his nomination. And lets face facts, Bernie simply won't be able to mobilize the black vote like Obama did.

Make no mistake guys, this is still a huge longshot. Although anyone paying attention knows that winning the nomination would be the toughest battle.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22830477 - 01/27/16 12:46 PM (8 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Bernie is a bum panderer.  If you think most Americans are bums then you think Bernie will win.



Zappa's the only one who thinks most Americans are bums.  Keep in mind that to zappa, anyone who is not a business owner like he is, is a BUM.

Bernie actually wants to increase wages for workers, so they no longer have to rely on the Government for handouts.  That's good for the taxpayer.




Consumers are taxpayers.  Your understanding of economics is stunningly ignorant.  You seem to think that if the government imposes wage increases for no reason other than to increase the tax base that will be beneficial.  Madness.  Yet another tax.  Don't we already have enough companies fleeing our tax hell?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22830484 - 01/27/16 12:48 PM (8 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I'm still incredibly anxious to see how Iowa turns out on Monday. RCP has Bernie over Hillary using their poll average, but the disparity support amongst first time caucus goers compared to repeat caucus goers between the two candidates its HUGE. What its going to come down to is whether young voters turn out to caucus, simple as that.  On the flip side, it has been 8 years since Iowa dems have really needed to caucus, so its not like voter apathy plays into that all too much (its simply inability).

On the bright side, Bernie has all the momentum, and he's had a pretty bad week in the media, what with CNN and others plastering SANDERS WILL RAISE TAXES everywhere (without explaining he's only doing so to save Americans money). So overall I like his chances. New Hampshire is all but locked up, and recent polls have him back only 3 points in Nevada. Not a lot of delegates in Nevada, but a landslide win in NH and then a win in Iowa should put him over the edge there as well. The biggest concern is South Carolina, the southern fireall, where Bernie still (despite a 17 point swing in his favor over the past ~45 days) trails by 20 points.

If Bernie can win the first 3 states, and even come close in South Carolina, he has a chance to steal some states on Super Tuesday. But even though his net favorability among non-whites is now tied with Hillary nationwide, the black vote is still the key to his nomination. And lets face facts, Bernie simply won't be able to mobilize the black vote like Obama did.

Make no mistake guys, this is still a huge longshot. Although anyone paying attention knows that winning the nomination would be the toughest battle.



When is the last time a non-incumbent won Iowa primary in either party and then won general election?  Simmer down.  The importance of Iowa and NH is a media fiction.


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OfflineTipote
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22830524 - 01/27/16 12:58 PM (8 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Tipote said:
Bernie is the only sane option out of this election, that doesnt guarantee his victory though. I've been watching US politics for longer than 5 mins and thats all it takes to realise it is insane.




Bernie is a bum panderer.  If you think most Americans are bums then you think Bernie will win.




This is the first national election cycle where millenials voters will significantly outnumber baby boomers. So thanks, but your antiquated opinions are no longer necessary.

Go enjoy whatever entitlement programs you've yet to suck dry.




This!

get back in your cupboard, zappa.

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Zappa's the only one who thinks most Americans are bums.  Keep in mind that to zappa, anyone who is not a business owner like he is, is a BUM.

Bernie actually wants to increase wages for workers, so they no longer have to rely on the Government for handouts.  That's good for the taxpayer.




This also.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod] * 2
    #22830549 - 01/27/16 01:10 PM (8 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Consumers are taxpayers.  Your understanding of economics is stunningly ignorant.  You seem to think that if the government imposes wage increases for no reason other than to increase the tax base that will be beneficial.



Before you toss out ad hominem attacks, I'll remind you that you've already lost that debate here, here, here, here, and here.

For those that don't have time to read the above threads, the summary is that empirical studies have clearly shown that a 10% increase in minimum wage will only increase overall prices by up to 0.4%, making it a bargain for consumers.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22830835 - 01/27/16 02:57 PM (8 years, 4 days ago)

I haven't ever lost a debate on that issue.  Further, me saying your understanding of economics is abysmal is not an ad hominem attack.  It is a plain fact.  Why not raise the minimum wage to a billion dollars an hour if it's so helpful?  Ignorance.  No bliss.


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OfflineTipote
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod] * 2
    #22830898 - 01/27/16 03:18 PM (8 years, 4 days ago)

ignoring the data does not mean you win debates.

your example of a billion $ per hour is nonsensical. come on, zappa.


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Tipote]
    #22830951 - 01/27/16 03:33 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

Why is it nonsensical?  You say a higher minimum wage is de facto better for the economy.  So make it higher.  Make it a trillion dollars an hour.  Your argument is and always has been bullshit.  You should get paid exactly what your job is worth.  That is best determined by the market.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22830962 - 01/27/16 03:36 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Consumers are taxpayers.  Your understanding of economics is stunningly ignorant.  You seem to think that if the government imposes wage increases for no reason other than to increase the tax base that will be beneficial.



Before you toss out ad hominem attacks, I'll remind you that you've already lost that debate here, here, here, here, and here.

For those that don't have time to read the above threads, the summary is that empirical studies have clearly shown that a 10% increase in minimum wage will only increase overall prices by up to 0.4%, making it a bargain for consumers.



You got your ass kicked in that thread.


--------------------


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod] * 3
    #22830983 - 01/27/16 03:42 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I haven't ever lost a debate on that issue.



I just pointed you to five debates you lost on the issue.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Further, me saying your understanding of economics is abysmal is not an ad hominem attack.  It is a plain fact.



It is ad hominem if you fail to back yourself up with logic which you haven't done (as Tipote alrady noted).  Could you please explain how is a wage increase bad for consumers, or move to the kindeegarten forum?

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Why not raise the minimum wage to a billion dollars an hour if it's so helpful?  Ignorance.  No bliss.



That's like telling Martin Shkreli if raising the price of a pill to $750 is good for his business, then he should raise it to $1 billion per pill.  I'm really disappointed in your complete lack of business sense.

You yourself already pointed out:

Quote:

CBO: Raise the min wage by 40%, total employment falls by 0.3%. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44995-MinimumWage.pdf




A short term 0.3% gain in unemployment is NOTHING compared to a 40% wage increase.


But that too has repeatedly been pointed out to you.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22830988 - 01/27/16 03:44 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Before you toss out ad hominem attacks, I'll remind you that you've already lost that debate here, here, here, here, and here.

For those that don't have time to read the above threads, the summary is that empirical studies have clearly shown that a 10% increase in minimum wage will only increase overall prices by up to 0.4%, making it a bargain for consumers.



You got your ass kicked in that thread.



Go on.  I can't wait to finally hear your logic for how higher wages is bad for the consumer.  :popcorn:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
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Registered: 03/11/15
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod] * 3
    #22830993 - 01/27/16 03:45 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Why is it nonsensical?  You say a higher minimum wage is de facto better for the economy.  So make it higher.  Make it a trillion dollars an hour.  Your argument is and always has been bullshit.  You should get paid exactly what your job is worth.  That is best determined by the market.




logical extremes don't often have a basis in reality, and i think that you already know that.  The concept of "Total Warfare" in the modern day comes to mind...but i want to skip straight to your final sentence

Quote:

That is best determined by the market.




When you say "best", in what way do you mean exactly?  who is this market determination best for and why?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22831022 - 01/27/16 03:55 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I haven't ever lost a debate on that issue.



I just pointed you to five debates you lost on the issue.

Umm no

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Further, me saying your understanding of economics is abysmal is not an ad hominem attack.  It is a plain fact.



It is ad hominem if you fail to back yourself up with logic which you haven't done (as Tipote alrady noted).  Could you please explain how is a wage increase bad for consumers, or move to the kindeegarten forum?

Raises the prices of goods and drives producers off shore

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Why not raise the minimum wage to a billion dollars an hour if it's so helpful?  Ignorance.  No bliss.



That's like telling Martin Shkreli if raising the price of a pill to $750 is good for his business, then he should raise it to $1 billion per pill.  I'm really disappointed in your complete lack of business sense.

I don't understand why other manufacturers weren't making the pill.  It had no patent protection.

You yourself already pointed out:

Quote:

CBO: Raise the min wage by 40%, total employment falls by 0.3%. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44995-MinimumWage.pdf




A short term 0.3% gain in unemployment is NOTHING compared to a 40% wage increase.


But that too has repeatedly been pointed out to you.




I love their opinions.  We are already seeing mass flight.  You want more.  That man is an idiot.


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OfflineTipote
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22831115 - 01/27/16 04:19 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

why don't you answer the question, zappa?


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