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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22108314 - 08/18/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Your story keeps spinning grander and grander. From 15 to now 21 states you had to pay taxes in, to international. What next?


>OK.  So, how is going to give Free Stuff, and more Free Stuff, without growing government?  By the way, are ALL corporations going to get the fuck taxed out of them or is the government going to pick the winners and losers, and give license to preferred companies that do the 'right things' in terms of pay and 'fairness'?

Oh now you are asking hard questions, that's not the dem way. The voters are supposed to just accept things at face value. Of course he will grow govt, of course govt will pick winners and losers.





Oh, I see.  So it's going to be business as usual.  :smirk:


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22108315 - 08/18/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Oh now you are asking hard questions, that's not the dem way. The voters are supposed to just accept things at face value. Of course he will grow govt, of course govt will pick winners and losers. Will it be as bad as obumble? We will no doubt be faced with another bad vs worse choice in '16. I do hope trump is one of them and Bernie is the other. In that case it might be not so great vs not too bad which is a big improvement.




Where are the hard questions? All I see are questions from complete and utter ignorance that expect me to explain economic theory, yet again, to someone without a clue.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22108426 - 08/18/15 08:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Weren't you the guy who just told us to talk nice? Now I see you insulting both star and myself.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22108459 - 08/18/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Weren't you the guy who just told us to talk nice? Now I see you insulting both star and myself.




I didn't call anyone names.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22108479 - 08/18/15 08:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Your story keeps spinning grander and grander. From 15 to now 21 states you had to pay taxes in, to international. What next?

>I don't do IT work

Then what kind of work?

> States collect taxes from companies based in other states for work done while employees are traveling into their state and doing billable work

You said at first it was income taxes, what is it now? Income taxes in that scenario, assuming there is a need to pay it, would come from the people working in that state. A company pays income taxes to the feds and to the state in which it is based, not to every state that it does business in. Since you are so knowledgeable you should have no problem giving a link and quotes backing up whatever it is you are trying to say.






You have reading comprehension problems.  I said that many States tax Corporations ... New York and California for example.  And, if your company, say based in Arizona, has people that travel to NY or California (or many other states) and deliver billable work there, then the company is expected to pay state taxes to that state.  That state then issues some kind of a credit or notice to the home state that taxes were paid there and it is deducted from the state corporate taxes due in the host state.

Dude, you are seriously clueless. This is my last post on this issue so if you don't get it by now, call your accountant and he'll give you  a billable answer.  I"m not a tax expert but I have some big tax return files where my company filed to a number of states for this reason.  Can't understand why you would argue this as it's commonly understood and part of the corporate tax complexity that needs to be simplified.

You've been proven over and over to be a economic hack ... a puppy of the uber wealthy,  unable to think beyond conservative slogans you've been force fed by those you idolize.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22108500 - 08/18/15 08:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

to star
>You have a very simple minded approach to all of this
>That is just stupid.
>your trickle down nonsense

to me
>All I see are questions from complete and utter ignorance that expect me to explain economic theory, yet again, to someone without a clue.

I see the fish (ko) is now floundering desperately. Cant come up with any link to back his nonsense, still can't say if its income tax on the individual or what.

>This is my last post on this issue

You better run away. You are an idiot and a fool.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22108575 - 08/18/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:

You better run away. You are an idiot and a fool.




Call your corporate tax accountant, dipshit, and get back to us on how corporations pay state taxes.  Then we'll talk about it.  Until then, you're just advertising your stupidity and seem proud of it.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22108901 - 08/18/15 09:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Oh now you are asking hard questions, that's not the dem way. The voters are supposed to just accept things at face value. Of course he will grow govt, of course govt will pick winners and losers. Will it be as bad as obumble? We will no doubt be faced with another bad vs worse choice in '16. I do hope trump is one of them and Bernie is the other. In that case it might be not so great vs not too bad which is a big improvement.




Where are the hard questions? All I see are questions from complete and utter ignorance that expect me to explain economic theory, yet again, to someone without a clue.





i dont expect you to explain economic theory.  I just want to know if it is going to be the state (government) that picks the winners and losers under Bernie.


--------------------


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22109047 - 08/18/15 10:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
to star
>You have a very simple minded approach to all of this
>That is just stupid.
>your trickle down nonsense

to me
>All I see are questions from complete and utter ignorance that expect me to explain economic theory, yet again, to someone without a clue.

I see the fish (ko) is now floundering desperately. Cant come up with any link to back his nonsense, still can't say if its income tax on the individual or what.

>This is my last post on this issue

You better run away. You are an idiot and a fool.




Firstly, I didn't call anyone names. Also, that line that you said was 'to you' was referring to starfire's post, actually. He's the one who apparently still believes in trickle down nonsense and isn't aware of any economic critique's of Capitalism. There are some very coherent and logical analyses of economics that lead to Bernie Sanders' approach, which are rooted in far more substance than 'free shit yayyy!'


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22109051 - 08/18/15 10:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
i dont expect you to explain economic theory.  I just want to know if it is going to be the state (government) that picks the winners and losers under Bernie.




No. That system already exists in virtually the most bold expression possible under "Democracy". Bernie wants to change that, and he's been trying to do it for years now. We live in a society that picks winners and losers on an individual and macro level.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (08/18/15 10:37 PM)


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22109324 - 08/19/15 12:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
i dont expect you to explain economic theory.  I just want to know if it is going to be the state (government) that picks the winners and losers under Bernie.




No. That system already exists in virtually the most bold expression possible under "Democracy". Bernie wants to change that, and he's been trying to do it for years now. We live in a society that picks winners and losers on an individual and macro level.





then three cheers for him. what is he going to do?  Also,are all companies going to be fored to pay the same tax rate?


--------------------


Edited by starfire_xes (08/19/15 12:29 AM)


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22109386 - 08/19/15 01:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
i dont expect you to explain economic theory.  I just want to know if it is going to be the state (government) that picks the winners and losers under Bernie.




No. That system already exists in virtually the most bold expression possible under "Democracy". Bernie wants to change that, and he's been trying to do it for years now. We live in a society that picks winners and losers on an individual and macro level.





then three cheers for him. what is he going to do?  Also,are all companies going to be fored to pay the same tax rate?




I think his first priority as far as the tax code is to close loopholes and target offshore tax havens, so that all businesses pay some level of tax instead of 0%. I think this is a great starting point, and it will make the taxation more equal between businesses of all sizes. I dont believe Bernie espouses a 'flat tax', but I dont either.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleAstral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22109647 - 08/19/15 03:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Companies are double taxed if they bring there overseas profits back to the states. This money would create growth and jobs over here instead of other countries. This is a job killer penalty that needs to be fixed.

https://www.atr.org/obama-budgets-double-taxation-us-employers

              I found this a bit odd. I don't see this combo happening.

                                 


--------------------
"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out"               
                -Bill Hicks-

__


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22109689 - 08/19/15 04:34 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:

i dont expect you to explain economic theory.  I just want to know if it is going to be the state (government) that picks the winners and losers under Bernie.




The system of  predatory capitalism + crony capitalism that we have now is a far more extreme version of the government "picking winners and losers" than what Bernie is suggesting.  His campaign is based on the following:

1. Getting big money out of politics with campaign finance reforms.  This is a huge step forward in breaking the cycle of big donations leading to big favors from politicians leading to more big donations ... rinse and repeat
2. Cracking down on loopholes and tax havens for large corporations and the uber wealth class.  Tax the upper 1% a lot more to shrink the wealth gap
3. Better strategic investments in the economy to increase earning potential of the middle class
4. Fixing our broken international trade policies that ship jobs overseas and benefit primarily the upper 1%

That all makes sense to me.  He's a better choice than Hillary who represents more of the same as Bill repealed Glass Steagall and passed NAFTA.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 1 minute
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22110244 - 08/19/15 08:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:

i dont expect you to explain economic theory.  I just want to know if it is going to be the state (government) that picks the winners and losers under Bernie.




The system of  predatory capitalism + crony capitalism that we have now is a far more extreme version of the government "picking winners and losers" than what Bernie is suggesting.  His campaign is based on the following:

1. Getting big money out of politics with campaign finance reforms.  This is a huge step forward in breaking the cycle of big donations leading to big favors from politicians leading to more big donations ... rinse and repeat
2. Cracking down on loopholes and tax havens for large corporations and the uber wealth class.  Tax the upper 1% a lot more to shrink the wealth gap
3. Better strategic investments in the economy to increase earning potential of the middle class
4. Fixing our broken international trade policies that ship jobs overseas and benefit primarily the upper 1%

That all makes sense to me.  He's a better choice than Hillary who represents more of the same as Bill repealed Glass Steagall and passed NAFTA.




The most important part is getting back the jobs, once you create a tight labor market the wealth inequality naturally turns around, you don't need that much government involvement.

Also, we have to deport all the illegals to create the tight labor market, we need our low skilled workers to have decent paying jobs like we did 30 years ago.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 24 minutes, 37 seconds
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22110436 - 08/19/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:

You better run away. You are an idiot and a fool.




Call your corporate tax accountant, dipshit, and get back to us on how corporations pay state taxes.  Then we'll talk about it.  Until then, you're just advertising your stupidity and seem proud of it.




Please don't flame because you'll get banned and then I'll have to be the one to dispel the bullshit.


--------------------


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 24 minutes, 37 seconds
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
    #22110452 - 08/19/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:

i dont expect you to explain economic theory.  I just want to know if it is going to be the state (government) that picks the winners and losers under Bernie.




The system of  predatory capitalism + crony capitalism that we have now is a far more extreme version of the government "picking winners and losers" than what Bernie is suggesting.  His campaign is based on the following:

1. Getting big money out of politics with campaign finance reforms.  This is a huge step forward in breaking the cycle of big donations leading to big favors from politicians leading to more big donations ... rinse and repeat
2. Cracking down on loopholes and tax havens for large corporations and the uber wealth class.  Tax the upper 1% a lot more to shrink the wealth gap
3. Better strategic investments in the economy to increase earning potential of the middle class
4. Fixing our broken international trade policies that ship jobs overseas and benefit primarily the upper 1%

That all makes sense to me.  He's a better choice than Hillary who represents more of the same as Bill repealed Glass Steagall and passed NAFTA.




The most important part is getting back the jobs, once you create a tight labor market the wealth inequality naturally turns around, you don't need that much government involvement.

Also, we have to deport all the illegals to create the tight labor market, we need our low skilled workers to have decent paying jobs like we did 30 years ago.




The only way to get the jobs back is to blow up every major free trade agreement, which won't happen because corporations own this planet.

Either that or we can just lower our standard of living to that of Bangladesh.


--------------------


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
    #22110559 - 08/19/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:

i dont expect you to explain economic theory.  I just want to know if it is going to be the state (government) that picks the winners and losers under Bernie.




The system of  predatory capitalism + crony capitalism that we have now is a far more extreme version of the government "picking winners and losers" than what Bernie is suggesting.  His campaign is based on the following:

1. Getting big money out of politics with campaign finance reforms.  This is a huge step forward in breaking the cycle of big donations leading to big favors from politicians leading to more big donations ... rinse and repeat
2. Cracking down on loopholes and tax havens for large corporations and the uber wealth class.  Tax the upper 1% a lot more to shrink the wealth gap
3. Better strategic investments in the economy to increase earning potential of the middle class
4. Fixing our broken international trade policies that ship jobs overseas and benefit primarily the upper 1%

That all makes sense to me.  He's a better choice than Hillary who represents more of the same as Bill repealed Glass Steagall and passed NAFTA.




The most important part is getting back the jobs, once you create a tight labor market the wealth inequality naturally turns around, you don't need that much government involvement.

Also, we have to deport all the illegals to create the tight labor market, we need our low skilled workers to have decent paying jobs like we did 30 years ago.




A tight labor market helps, but to really rebuild that middle class it's gong to take more than that.  It's the type of jobs the country is creating that matters.  We need manufacturing to really come roaring back and we need a much smaller pay gap up and down the corporation.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22110565 - 08/19/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:

You better run away. You are an idiot and a fool.




Call your corporate tax accountant, dipshit, and get back to us on how corporations pay state taxes.  Then we'll talk about it.  Until then, you're just advertising your stupidity and seem proud of it.




Please don't flame because you'll get banned and then I'll have to be the one to dispel the bullshit.




You're right, I've decided to ignore Stonehenge from this point forward.  He's uninformed and only interested in starting conflict on topics he really doesn't understand.  Good advice.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 1 minute
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22110630 - 08/19/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:

i dont expect you to explain economic theory.  I just want to know if it is going to be the state (government) that picks the winners and losers under Bernie.




The system of  predatory capitalism + crony capitalism that we have now is a far more extreme version of the government "picking winners and losers" than what Bernie is suggesting.  His campaign is based on the following:

1. Getting big money out of politics with campaign finance reforms.  This is a huge step forward in breaking the cycle of big donations leading to big favors from politicians leading to more big donations ... rinse and repeat
2. Cracking down on loopholes and tax havens for large corporations and the uber wealth class.  Tax the upper 1% a lot more to shrink the wealth gap
3. Better strategic investments in the economy to increase earning potential of the middle class
4. Fixing our broken international trade policies that ship jobs overseas and benefit primarily the upper 1%

That all makes sense to me.  He's a better choice than Hillary who represents more of the same as Bill repealed Glass Steagall and passed NAFTA.




The most important part is getting back the jobs, once you create a tight labor market the wealth inequality naturally turns around, you don't need that much government involvement.

Also, we have to deport all the illegals to create the tight labor market, we need our low skilled workers to have decent paying jobs like we did 30 years ago.




A tight labor market helps, but to really rebuild that middle class it's gong to take more than that.  It's the type of jobs the country is creating that matters.  We need manufacturing to really come roaring back and we need a much smaller pay gap up and down the corporation.




I remember when Clinton and Bush both told Americans the economy didn't need manufacturing jobs anymore, we were going to become a "service orientated economy" :facepalm:.

Bush always talked about "job training centers" to help people get jobs, where the fuck were all of those centers?  I don't think they ever existed. :lol:


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