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qman
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22363125 - 10/11/15 12:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Dow index? Unemployment claims? All the typical metrics.
We know from history that austerity doesn't work, and stimulus does. Its pretty widely accepted by everyone who doesn't directly benefit from austerity.
Bailing out the banks was "stimulus"? Letting assets trade in the open market isn't austerity. 
I just find is amazing that liberals support that type of bailout for the very rich people that you despise.
Did the lower and middle classes get any bailout? Nope, they just get the capitalist kick in the ass.
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qman
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22363142 - 10/11/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: As much as I want the banks broken up, Glass Steagall reinstated, a Wall St transaction tax, and the kitchen sink, we couldn't just let the institutions holding all our nation's capital crumble.
It wouldn't crumble, natural market forces would go to work and reward the prudent, and inflict pain on the irresponsible. That's a good thing at the end of the day.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22363623 - 10/11/15 02:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Dow index? Unemployment claims? All the typical metrics.
We know from history that austerity doesn't work, and stimulus does. Its pretty widely accepted by everyone who doesn't directly benefit from austerity.
tHEN WHY are the Euro Nations that accepted austerity--Germany comes to mind--doing so much better than the ones that rejected it (greece for one)
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
#22363637 - 10/11/15 02:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: As much as I want the banks broken up, Glass Steagall reinstated, a Wall St transaction tax, and the kitchen sink, we couldn't just let the institutions holding all our nation's capital crumble.
It wouldn't crumble, natural market forces would go to work and reward the prudent, and inflict pain on the irresponsible. That's a good thing at the end of the day.
The end of that day would be very dark, and for everyone, not JUST the irresponsible ones.
This is what happens when Wall Street wraps its tentacles around every facet of our lives. Can't kill it without killing the host.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: starfire_xes]
#22363644 - 10/11/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Dow index? Unemployment claims? All the typical metrics.
We know from history that austerity doesn't work, and stimulus does. Its pretty widely accepted by everyone who doesn't directly benefit from austerity.
tHEN WHY are the Euro Nations that accepted austerity--Germany comes to mind--doing so much better than the ones that rejected it (greece for one)
Germany is practically propping up the continent, they aren't exactly cutting back.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22363652 - 10/11/15 02:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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oh, you mean all these countries that dont accept austerity have to be propped up?
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: starfire_xes]
#22363673 - 10/11/15 02:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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So fails the Union of Euro Socialist Democratic Republics.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: starfire_xes]
#22363716 - 10/11/15 02:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: oh, you mean all these countries that dont accept austerity have to be propped up?
....By another nation not accepting austerity.
Even if austerity was the proven path towards stability, the people of Europe are right for demanding their goods and services. They paid their taxes. It's not their fault speculators at Goldman Sachs fucked the global economy over.
But I'm sure the worldwide recession is socialism's fault too. How dare these taxpayers use their public money democratically? And how dare they blame the banks for stacking the largest Jenga tower of derivatives ever and gambling away the world's wealth?
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qman
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22363899 - 10/11/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: As much as I want the banks broken up, Glass Steagall reinstated, a Wall St transaction tax, and the kitchen sink, we couldn't just let the institutions holding all our nation's capital crumble.
It wouldn't crumble, natural market forces would go to work and reward the prudent, and inflict pain on the irresponsible. That's a good thing at the end of the day.
The end of that day would be very dark, and for everyone, not JUST the irresponsible ones.
Some banks would have been insolvent if it weren't for the bailout and QE, so what? Other banks pick up the slack, it's not the end of the world,
The public was sold a "very dark" scary outcome if their demands were not met, total bullshit.
What if they need another bailout in 2 years? You're going support it?
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,855
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
#22364482 - 10/11/15 05:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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and they lived happily ever after...
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
#22364574 - 10/11/15 05:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: As much as I want the banks broken up, Glass Steagall reinstated, a Wall St transaction tax, and the kitchen sink, we couldn't just let the institutions holding all our nation's capital crumble.
It wouldn't crumble, natural market forces would go to work and reward the prudent, and inflict pain on the irresponsible. That's a good thing at the end of the day.
The end of that day would be very dark, and for everyone, not JUST the irresponsible ones.
Some banks would have been insolvent if it weren't for the bailout and QE, so what? Other banks pick up the slack, it's not the end of the world,
The public was sold a "very dark" scary outcome if their demands were not met, total bullshit.
What if they need another bailout in 2 years? You're going support it? 
Nations like Iceland can get away with liquidating their entire financial system and starting fresh, the United States cannot.
And, ideally, there will be some actual reforms in the financial sector in the next two years, but if we're staring down another recession I would choose the lesser of two evils every time.
The banks have our economy hostage, and if we can't free them (reform), then yeah we gotta keep them from killing the hostages. It's a shit situation all around.
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qman
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22364638 - 10/11/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: As much as I want the banks broken up, Glass Steagall reinstated, a Wall St transaction tax, and the kitchen sink, we couldn't just let the institutions holding all our nation's capital crumble.
It wouldn't crumble, natural market forces would go to work and reward the prudent, and inflict pain on the irresponsible. That's a good thing at the end of the day.
The end of that day would be very dark, and for everyone, not JUST the irresponsible ones.
Some banks would have been insolvent if it weren't for the bailout and QE, so what? Other banks pick up the slack, it's not the end of the world,
The public was sold a "very dark" scary outcome if their demands were not met, total bullshit.
What if they need another bailout in 2 years? You're going support it? 
Nations like Iceland can get away with liquidating their entire financial system and starting fresh, the United States cannot.
And, ideally, there will be some actual reforms in the financial sector in the next two years, but if we're staring down another recession I would choose the lesser of two evils every time.
The banks have our economy hostage, and if we can't free them (reform), then yeah we gotta keep them from killing the hostages. It's a shit situation all around.
If you think "bailing out" the crony capitalist banks will continue to fight off another economic recession, you're delusional.
Do you know the number one rational for bailing out the banks? So there wouldn't be any interruption in the access to credit, but what do we see 7 years later? Still no credit availability for the general economy!!
All the new capital that went into the banks ended up on Wall Street, do you support this elite self-serving policy because Obama marketed it as "a good thing for everyone"?
Guess what? Stock and bond holders can have assets trade lower and the financial world can still function and survive just fine, those crooks really sold a big scary story, too bad the people that should have scrutizned them the most ended up thanking them for their ass rape.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
#22364779 - 10/11/15 06:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Government forces banks to make risky worthless loans, banks figure out how to make money off of risky worthless loans, risky worthless loans go into default, govt blames banks, idiots demand more govt regulation...
The fact is the banks right now are so heavily regulated by govt, that there is no longer any competition between them, they are all essentially the same, running under govt rules and regulation, yet the same govt who caused all this is gonna fix it? Is that right?
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qman
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22364911 - 10/11/15 06:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Government forces banks to make risky worthless loans, banks figure out how to make money off of risky worthless loans, risky worthless loans go into default, govt blames banks, idiots demand more govt regulation...
The fact is the banks right now are so heavily regulated by govt, that there is no longer any competition between them, they are all essentially the same, running under govt rules and regulation, yet the same govt who caused all this is gonna fix it? Is that right?
Somehow these heavily regulated banks are still able to consistency still grow their revenues and profits, how is that so?
Many banks didn't make those risky loans, so they can't blame everything on the government "forcing" them to make stupid loans. When you know you're already going to get bailed out, you behave irresponsibly.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
#22365017 - 10/11/15 07:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Government forces banks to make risky worthless loans, banks figure out how to make money off of risky worthless loans, risky worthless loans go into default, govt blames banks, idiots demand more govt regulation...
The fact is the banks right now are so heavily regulated by govt, that there is no longer any competition between them, they are all essentially the same, running under govt rules and regulation, yet the same govt who caused all this is gonna fix it? Is that right?
Somehow these heavily regulated banks are still able to consistency still grow their revenues and profits, how is that so?
Many banks didn't make those risky loans, so they can't blame everything on the government "forcing" them to make stupid loans. When you know you're already going to get bailed out, you behave irresponsibly.
Exactly, they make money despite govt regulations, not because of them...
And I agree, no bailouts, I remember when they said we had 24 hours to avoid economic collapse, t took congress over a week to approve the funds, ...and nothing happened before then, it's all BS, the banks should have been allowed to fail, and also GM, bailing out GM was nothing more than the govt picking winners and losers, what about ford? They basically got punished for their fiscal discipline. If GM would have been allowed to fail, ford would have picked up part of their market share... Thus, they were punished, essentially...
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22365437 - 10/11/15 08:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Credit is HUGELY more available than it was in the midst of the recession.
We aren't handing out mortgages to anyone who will fog a mirror, but I guess we could do that again so the right wing can blame poor people for ruining everything, and scoffing at the notion of predatory lending.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22365523 - 10/11/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Credit is HUGELY more available than it was in the midst of the recession.
We aren't handing out mortgages to anyone who will fog a mirror, but I guess we could do that again so the right wing can blame poor people for ruining everything, and scoffing at the notion of predatory lending.
^^^ retarded post of the day!
So giving loans to people who can't afford it is a good thing to you??!
And we wonder why America is going to shit....
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22367329 - 10/12/15 09:41 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Credit is HUGELY more available than it was in the midst of the recession.
We aren't handing out mortgages to anyone who will fog a mirror, but I guess we could do that again so the right wing can blame poor people for ruining everything, and scoffing at the notion of predatory lending.
^^^ retarded post of the day!
So giving loans to people who can't afford it is a good thing to you??!
And we wonder why America is going to shit....
I just said it wasn't a good thing. You really need to learn how to pick up on context clues, because it seems like you just scan posts for keywords and then decide for yourself what the post is conveying.
Obviously.
pause for significance.
Obviously, we shouldn't be giving out mortgages to anyone who can fog a mirror.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22368434 - 10/12/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Credit is HUGELY more available than it was in the midst of the recession.
We aren't handing out mortgages to anyone who will fog a mirror, but I guess we could do that again so the right wing can blame poor people for ruining everything, and scoffing at the notion of predatory lending.
^^^ retarded post of the day!
So giving loans to people who can't afford it is a good thing to you??!
And we wonder why America is going to shit....
If I lend $1,000 to a homeless man and he doesn't pay me back... who are you going to blame? Me? Or the homeless man who shouldn't have borrowed the money?
Giving loans to people who can't afford them is bad, but those people are not the sole party responsible. Sure, the homeless man shouldn't borrow $1,000 he can't pay back, but in this scenario, I would be much more to blame.
Edit: I just noticed you called Ecstatic retarded... while entirely misinterpreting his post... 
I hope you realize that this is the sort of thing that makes nobody take you seriously as anything more than a right wing caricature.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (10/12/15 02:17 PM)
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22368623 - 10/12/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Credit is HUGELY more available than it was in the midst of the recession.
We aren't handing out mortgages to anyone who will fog a mirror, but I guess we could do that again so the right wing can blame poor people for ruining everything, and scoffing at the notion of predatory lending.
^^^ retarded post of the day!
So giving loans to people who can't afford it is a good thing to you??!
And we wonder why America is going to shit....
If I lend $1,000 to a homeless man and he doesn't pay me back... who are you going to blame? Me? Or the homeless man who shouldn't have borrowed the money?
Giving loans to people who can't afford them is bad, but those people are not the sole party responsible. Sure, the homeless man shouldn't borrow $1,000 he can't pay back, but in this scenario, I would be much more to blame.
Edit: I just noticed you called Ecstatic retarded... while entirely misinterpreting his post... 
I hope you realize that this is the sort of thing that makes nobody take you seriously as anything more than a right wing caricature.
If the govt forces you to loan the homeless man money, then are you still to blame?
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