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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22128463 - 08/22/15 08:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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So you think anyone who is a little bit conservative or a 'pub has been duped? <-- note correct spelling.
i'll bet you that sanders does not win the election if he gets the nomination. That way if he doesn't get nominated, the bet's off.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,346
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22128496 - 08/22/15 08:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: So you think anyone who is a little bit conservative or a 'pub has been duped? <-- note correct spelling.
i'll bet you that sanders does not win the election if he gets the nomination. That way if he doesn't get nominated, the bet's off.
Right. I'll take that bet.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22129713 - 08/23/15 06:36 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
I will say, as I've said before, that Bernie sounds like a much better candidate than the hill+billy. Outside of trump, I'd like paul, after that sanders.
So, if it's Walker, Fiorina, Bush or Rubio vs. Sanders, you'd vote Sanders? LMAO. Sure buddy ... the corporate lap dog would support Sanders over a conservative option? Too funny. When the uber wealthy offer you a treat, do you sit, stay and roll over?
Edited by KauaiOrca (08/23/15 07:10 AM)
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22129763 - 08/23/15 07:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Drug policy reform I assume, it's what all three candidates have in common. Though Trump last mentioned it in 2011 and has flip-flopped a lot prior to this run.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Donald_Trump.htm
*edit* nm, looks like he's adopted a moderate stance.
Quote:
However, before would-be marijuana reformers get too revved up considering cannabis capitalism under a President Trump Administration, this recent report on comments by Trump at the 2015 CPAC conference suggests that, as I have highlighted below, The Donald's marijuana reform views may still be evolving:
Trump said he has several agenda items should he become president, and his top item is to destroy the Islamic State.... In a lightning round with [Sean] Hannity, Trump also said that he is pro-life, with the exceptions of cases involving the life of the mother, rape, or incest; against legalized marijuana, unless it's medical marijuana, which he supports; and he believes Hillary Clinton botched Benghazi, her husband is a "nice guy" with a lot of problems coming up; and Obama is "an incompetent president."
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/marijuana_law/2015/06/just-what-is-donald-trumps-position-now-on-modern-marijuana-reforms-and-the-modern-drug-war.html
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (08/23/15 07:25 AM)
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22129877 - 08/23/15 08:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, that's right. Trump is moderate on pot as are the others I mentioned.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22129908 - 08/23/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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One of the best speeches ever from the floor of the Senate ...
If you really want to understand the takeover of America and who is doing it, let Bernie Sanders explain it to you in clear, coherent detail.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22129998 - 08/23/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The Founding Fathers were adamant and ASSERTIVE about their beliefs that Corporations should operate, first and foremost in the best interest of the public good. The states at that time placed strong restrictions on corporations including time limits (5-10 years) on their charters, no ability to participate or influence politics or politicians, the demand that they demonstrate they are serving the public interest. The Founding Fathers were, for the most part, extremely suspicious of Corporations and did not want the infection they saw in England to come to the US where big money from corporations was influencing politics.
Over the years, the wealthy changed these laws in the states and we now have a system where corporations influence and/or control every element of our democracy. What we need is a strong movement to LIMIT the power, size and political influence of corporations.
Bernie Sanders is the candidate most likely to do this. We need incentives and rewards for companies that invest in their people and pay them well and a tax structure that FORCES companies with exploitative compensation policies to pay an extreme tax penalty to reimburse the government for the increased burden they create with compensation policies that keep their employees in poverty.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22130040 - 08/23/15 09:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Trump has been erratic in his statements on pot. In 1990 he called for full legalization. By 2015, when speaking to a conservative group, he said he was against full legalization on the federal level except for medical pot but if states legalized he would leave them alone. Contrast that to the double talking liar we have now. I would settle for the feds leaving pot users alone and states being free. Trump might mellow more on pot once he gets in.
Bernie said he was against the war on drugs but has not been really specific about pot or anything far as I know. Bernie would be a good second choice since rand seems to have no chance.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22130057 - 08/23/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Bernie said he was against the war on drugs but has not been really specific about pot or anything far as I know. Bernie would be a good second choice since rand seems to have no chance.
Bernie has said he supports decriminalization and medical marijuana. When he was mayor of Burlington he said police rarely enforced marijuana laws as the cops had better things to do. He also supports Vermont having both medical marijuana and decriminalized pot (which they do).
He's said he wants to look closely at CO and other legal states to see how marijuana legalization is playing out. I suspect he's pro-legalization but wants to put together a strong argument before making his stance public.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22130103 - 08/23/15 09:24 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, he sounds good on pot, which is a major issue to me, but is not really firm on it yet. He is leaning toward legalization but leaves himself some wiggle room. Trump indicated way back he wanted legalization but has given more than one view on that. I'm just saying even his most restrictive speech on the subject is way better than we will get from jeb, hitlery, or obumble.
Jeb is not only against any legalization, not even medical far as I can find out, he is also in favor of more govt spying on citizens and we all know he is sold out to big money. Its hard to decide which is the worst comparing him to hill-billy. That is the terrible choice the big money people want to push on us but thanks to trump and Bernie we have a choice. And thanks to hill-billy's stupid blunders, she is no longer sure of the presidency or even nomination. Yay!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22130124 - 08/23/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Trump has some stances that I really find scary so for me Hillary would be the lesser of two evils. But yeah, I agree for the most part. I hope Bernie gets the nomination and plan to vote in the primaries.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22130175 - 08/23/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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>Trump has some stances that I really find scary
Explain.
Hitlery is the worst of the worst.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22130280 - 08/23/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Climate change denial, wants to cut education funding, I think his immigration plan isn't really a plan but a political ploy to tap into racism in our culture. That's the three big ones.
I agree with some of his economic policies. I disagree with him on a lot of social issue (a lot of stuff he's flip flopped on like his abortion stance which I assume is just pandering to the right much like his new drug stance is pandering to the middle).
I think he's the best GOP candidate though that doesn't say much. Much like I think Hillary is a better candidate than he is, but again, that doesn't say much.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22130294 - 08/23/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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He doesn't believe in climate change but may once he takes a closer look. You are mistaken about education, he wants to make it better. Here is a quote
"Our schools aren’t safe. On top of that, our kids aren’t learning. Too many are dropping out of school and into the street life-and too many of those who do graduate are getting diplomas that have been devalued into “certificates of attendance” by a dumbed-down curriculum that asks little of teachers and less of students. Schools are crime-ridden and they don’t teach. How long do we think the U.S. can survive schools that pretend to teach while our kids pretend to learn? How can a kid hope to build an American Dream when he hasn’t been taught how to spell the word “dream”?
Public education was never meant to only teach the three R’s, history, and science. It was also meant to teach citizenship. At the lower levels it should cover the basics, help students develop study habits, and prepare those who desire higher education for the tough road ahead. It’s a mandate the public schools have delivered on since their inception. Until now. "
His policy on immigration is not simply a talking point, he is sincere about that and the great majority of americans agree with him on it. Toss out the illegals and there will be jobs again for americans and wages will go up without an artificial mandate. You leftists want to do it backwards, force companies to pay more rather than dry up the labor pool so they want to raise wages.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22130307 - 08/23/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Climate change denial, wants to cut education funding, I think his immigration plan isn't really a plan but a political ploy to tap into racism in our culture. That's the three big ones.
I agree with some of his economic policies. I disagree with him on a lot of social issue (a lot of stuff he's flip flopped on like his abortion stance which I assume is just pandering to the right much like his new drug stance is pandering to the middle).
I think he's the best GOP candidate though that doesn't say much. Much like I think Hillary is a better candidate than he is, but again, that doesn't say much.
Illegal immigration has nothing to do with racism, it's an economic issue. You do realize who wants to maintain an open border? The ultra rich, the very people you despise so much.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22130324 - 08/23/15 10:35 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Saying you want to improve education without a plan is pretty easy to do. What scares me most about Trump is his claim that he'll invade Iraq with enough troops to take the oil fields and then, essentially just confiscating the oil from Iraq. That's the kind of idiotic thinking that got us into Iraq in the first place. The blowback from the Middle East on that one could be gigantic. Trump doesn't think stuff through, but he's very good at the marketing end and he'll find governing to be very, very different from running his companies.
He's doing a lot of lying now to cozy up as much as is realistic to the base. He's a social liberal (but trying to hide it) and fiscal conservative which means he'll do better in the general that some expect.
The best immigration solution by far is to simply vigorously prosecute ANYONE that hires illegal aliens. Get e-verify in place and start putting CEO's in jail if illegals are working for their companies. Game over. Immigration problem solved.
Trump is also for even more domestic surveillance.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
#22130334 - 08/23/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Illegal immigration has nothing to do with racism, it's an economic issue. You do realize who wants to maintain an open border? The ultra rich, the very people you despise so much. 
Of course, but we can't expect people blinded by ideology to recognize a simple fact like that. Its not the working man who wants open borders, its the ultra rich who profit from cheap labor. They don't care what happens to unemployment or the crime rate since they live in gated communities.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22130348 - 08/23/15 10:42 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: Saying you want to improve education without a plan is pretty easy to do. What scares me most about Trump is his claim that he'll invade Iraq with enough troops to take the oil fields and then, essentially just confiscating the oil from Iraq. That's the kind of idiotic thinking that got us into Iraq in the first place. The blowback from the Middle East on that one could be gigantic. Trump doesn't think stuff through, but he's very good at the marketing end and he'll find governing to be very, very different from running his companies.
He's doing a lot of lying now to cozy up as much as is realistic to the base. He's a social liberal (but trying to hide it) and fiscal conservative which means he'll do better in the general that some expect.
The best immigration solution by far is to simply vigorously prosecute ANYONE that hires illegal aliens. Get e-verify in place and start putting CEO's in jail if illegals are working for their companies. Game over. Immigration problem solved.
Trump is also for even more domestic surveillance.
You also have to take away all the freebies from the anchor babies, take away ALL the incentives of staying in the US.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22130380 - 08/23/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I didn't say I want an open border and you know I support trade tariffs Stoney. I do find the doublethink with 'free markets' on the right amusing though.
Saying immigrants are mostly murderers and rapists, and I'm sure there's good ones too (notice this is an afterthought)... that's what I have a problem with. It's tapping into the same mindset Hitler did in Germany and yes I find that disconcerting.
Building a wall and having Mexico pay for it isn't a realistic plan either. Nor is deporting everyone. Not without some way to finance it and 'make Mexico pay for it' is a bunch of bullshit. I imagine the taxpayer would pay for it and Trump's own business would build it. This reminds me of a lot of the shit Bush/Cheney pulled with Halliburton contracts.
Here's a direct quote on Trump when it comes to education.
Quote:
Department of Education: "You could cut that way, way, way down." -- South Carolina Tea Party Convention, Myrtle Beach, January 2015
His idea for making education better is to put in the private sector and bust up teacher's unions. He also speaks at length about the dumbing down of our kids yet opposes Common Core (the federal program designed to address this).
Basically it sounds like he wants to do nationally what Walker has done locally in WI. Strategies that have led to already underfunded schools offering early severance packages to many of their professors.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22130401 - 08/23/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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pbw, you seem to think education is being done in the best way possible and we should not change a thing. The fact is, its become a bureaucratic mess, totally inefficient and needs to be reorganized. We can get more bang for less buck
As for unions, he is right again. Unions shield lazy and incompetent teachers making it very hard to fire them. He wants to get rid of illegals which will greatly improve employment prospects and at the same time cut back on union featherbedding.
Deporting and building a wall are among his better ideas. He already explained how mexico will pay for it. He will stop the remittances or cut them back drastically which means no more billions flowing out of the country. Not only do those people take our jobs, they send the money back home rather than spend it here. And you are in favor of that?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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