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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: DieCommie]
#22126106 - 08/22/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes, the rest of the world is there to service usa. All power to americans! I will say we need to eliminate crap food from our diet so the blimps can slim down some.
Walmart is a good thing and those who don't understand that are revealing their abysmal lack of basic economics. Those who want wm out must want thousands of inefficient small businesses to take their place. Those tiny companies pay low wages and charge high prices because they do not have the economy of scale and are mostly no more than semi-competent.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,858
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22126140 - 08/22/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Those who want wm out must want thousands of inefficient small businesses to take their place.
now you're getting it. This makes me think of Home Depot and Lowes. There used to be Franklins and Ace Hardware, and numerous other hardware stores. These places had staff that knew what they were selling, and how the shit worked. They had to pay a little higher wage than what these big box stores do, because they hired people that knew something. You could walk in with a 3/8 nut, and show it to the guy in the fastener aisle, and he would point you to the 3/8 nuts and bolts. By contrast, Home Depot hires kids that don't know dick. and not many of them at that. If you can find an employee somehow, it's never their dept. Even if you find someone in the dept you need, they don't have answers. is Home Depot a little bit less expensive than Ace? sure. But is there as much value for your dollar? i say no.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22126184 - 08/22/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Walmart is a good thing and those who don't understand that are revealing their abysmal lack of basic economics.
What we get is you dig pushing globalism, a system that sucks as much possible energy and money out of local economies/communities so it can be given to a tiny number of humans in the ownership class as they exploit the cheapest labor on the planet.
Walmart is a virus with cheap stuff, poor quality employees and a history of the kind of predatory management that is at the very heart of why America has such a huge wage gap.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: ballsalsa]
#22126188 - 08/22/15 09:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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>There used to be Franklins and Ace Hardware, and numerous other hardware stores.
I've got news for you, both ace and franklins are alive and well
>By contrast, Home Depot hires kids that don't know dick
All the hd's I've gone into had people who knew their stuff.
>They had to pay a little higher wage than what these big box stores do
By and large, not true. Got anything to back up your claim with. Small business is not efficient and the stores you praise like ace, while good, are also big box stores. The mom and pop stores that got put out of business charged way high prices. But that's what you want us to go back to. Why?
>Walmart is a virus with cheap stuff
They sell what people want. Why do you blame the vendor and only that vendor? Got any idea where the mom and pop stores get their stuff from? One guess, china.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,858
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22126211 - 08/22/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The mom and pop stores that got put out of business charged way high prices. But that's what you want us to go back to. Why?
because high prices lead to higher pay which leads to more spending power for employees which leads to more spending in local economies which leads to higher profits for small businesses which leads to higher employee pay which leads to more spending in local economies, which leads to higher profits for small businesses which leads to higher employee pay...
by contrast, low prices at big chains lead to lower employee pay which leads to less employee spending power which leads to less spending in local economies, which leads to higher profits for "the shareholders" which leads to lower prices which leads to lower employee wages which leads to less spending in local economies which leads to higher profits for "the shareholders"...
the real issue is competition though. When Home Depot puts everyone else in town out of business, they don't have to compete anymore. by contrast, when there's a hardware store on every corner, there is robust competition. isn't that what capitalism is all about?
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
Edited by ballsalsa (08/22/15 10:15 AM)
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: ballsalsa]
#22126250 - 08/22/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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>high prices lead to higher pay
No it doesn't, it leads to more profit in some cases. In most cases the higher prices are due to inefficiency by small business so no one wins.
> When Home Depot puts everyone else in town out of business, they don't have to compete anymore
Really? in my town there is a hd, a lowes, an ace, and many others including some small ones that stock hard to find parts the big stores don't bother with.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#22126557 - 08/22/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Now, Walmart should be able to open stores where they wish, provided they comply with local laws and pay their taxes. The city councils are wrong to give any company tax breaks. Expenses for cities go up when Walmart arrives. Businesses close. You seem to think it's OK that more expense translates to lower property taxes. You seem to think it's OK for councils to give tax breaks that cause other businesses to close. I don't.
You continue to act as though cities have a choice. Walmart and lots of other large businesses for that matter routinely build on county property to avoid city property tax. With a lot of business this isn't a huge deal but with a large retail outlet this syphons sales taxes out of the city budget.
Remember that the city has no choice rather a Walmart opens next to their city or not. This is county business. The best they can do is encourage Walmart to open within city limits so the sales tax isn't lost.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22126605 - 08/22/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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> Walmart and lots of other large businesses for that matter routinely build on county property to avoid city property tax
You keep saying that but have never backed it with facts.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22126634 - 08/22/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Now, Walmart should be able to open stores where they wish, provided they comply with local laws and pay their taxes. The city councils are wrong to give any company tax breaks. Expenses for cities go up when Walmart arrives. Businesses close. You seem to think it's OK that more expense translates to lower property taxes. You seem to think it's OK for councils to give tax breaks that cause other businesses to close. I don't.
You continue to act as though cities have a choice. Walmart and lots of other large businesses for that matter routinely build on county property to avoid city property tax. With a lot of business this isn't a huge deal but with a large retail outlet this syphons sales taxes out of the city budget.
Remember that the city has no choice rather a Walmart opens next to their city or not. This is county business. The best they can do is encourage Walmart to open within city limits so the sales tax isn't lost.
Except they do have a choice.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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akosi
Stranger
Registered: 03/08/15
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#22126819 - 08/22/15 01:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just seems like it will be so difficult for small businesses to get off the ground if they are unable to pay their employees less than 15$ an hour. People do deserve a living wage but we could fix inflation first by ending the fed, get rid of that invisible tax that we have no power over...
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 44 minutes
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#22126935 - 08/22/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
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luvdemshrooms said: How you get this shit so wrong baffles me. Walmart shouldn't give, nor get, money from politicians.
I agree with this. They should pay taxes. Taxes should be set the same for all corporations, and they shouldn't receive subsidies.
Are you saying they shouldn't hire senators as lobbyists too?
I'd love to see an amendment prohibiting it.
Agreed. I just don't know what that would look like... 'Federal government officials may no longer get a job when they leave office!' lmao
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: ballsalsa]
#22126947 - 08/22/15 01:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: [..
by contrast, low prices at big chains lead to lower employee pay which leads to less employee spending power which leads to less spending in local economies, which leads to higher profits for "the shareholders" which leads to lower prices which leads to lower employee wages which leads to less spending in local economies which leads to higher profits for "the shareholders"...
the real issue is competition though. When Home Depot puts everyone else in town out of business, they don't have to compete anymore. by contrast, when there's a hardware store on every corner, there is robust competition. isn't that what capitalism is all about?
Excellent post. Nailed it. Predatory capitalism's main goal is to eliminate competition through manipulation of the political process for favors, huge investments to drive out smaller competitors and extracting money from local economies to be sent often overseas or into tax sheltering schemes.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22127015 - 08/22/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: How you get this shit so wrong baffles me. Walmart shouldn't give, nor get, money from politicians.
I agree with this. They should pay taxes. Taxes should be set the same for all corporations, and they shouldn't receive subsidies.
Are you saying they shouldn't hire senators as lobbyists too?
I'd love to see an amendment prohibiting it.
Agreed. I just don't know what that would look like... 'Federal government officials may no longer get a job when they leave office!' lmao
I'd like to see something more comprehensive.
Lifetime limit of 12 years for Senators and Congresspersons. Lifetime limits of 10 years for federal judges. No judge, Senator or Congressperson may hold any federal office or federal government job after having served their lifetime limit. No-one who was a judge, Senator or Congressperson may lobby any sitting officeholder.
You'd have to grandfather those currently in office or they wouldn't vote for it, but as many in Congress are dinosaurs nearing death, that's OK.
Edit: I"d add a 10 year limit for heads of the various departments as well.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (08/22/15 01:40 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 44 minutes
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: DieCommie]
#22127046 - 08/22/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Walmart employees in the US are among the richest people on the planet
Ok.
Then we agree. And yet you want them to consume more and get more. Why do you want to help the rich rather than the poor? Is it nationalist bigotry? Americans deserve to be in the top 5% no matter how good or bad they are at their job, the rest of the world is there to service us. Do you just not care about the environment or the rest of the world? I don't believe that, I think you do care but aren't willing to put two and two together because it leads to an uncomfortable fact - the US expectation of a baseline standard is extreme and unsustainable. Walmart workers don't need more to live, and comparing them to the world is not comparing them to starving Africans.
I think you are entirely missing the point. The money that the top 5% of income earners in America make is unsustainable, and needs to be spread around. If more people have more money, I'm sure we will see more charitable donations to places like Africa.
Your argument is silly. There is poverty in America, believe it or not, and plenty of it. We have to pay more just to meet the basic necessities in life that people in Africa pay, by the way. I'm sure they don't have $1,000/month rental agreements, etc.
The real point is that wealth and power should not be so concentrated. In America, and in the world. So, we must take measures to spread the wealth.
I don't think finite resources is the problem you think it is either. We have a company that will soon be mining asteroids, and within the next 20 years we will be using fusion energy.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 44 minutes
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#22127188 - 08/22/15 02:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: I'd like to see something more comprehensive.
Lifetime limit of 12 years for Senators and Congresspersons. Lifetime limits of 10 years for federal judges. No judge, Senator or Congressperson may hold any federal office or federal government job after having served their lifetime limit. No-one who was a judge, Senator or Congressperson may lobby any sitting officeholder.
You'd have to grandfather those currently in office or they wouldn't vote for it, but as many in Congress are dinosaurs nearing death, that's OK.
Edit: I"d add a 10 year limit for heads of the various departments as well.
I've heard people express these sort of ideas before. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it, but I'm not against something like that, especially the part about lobbying.
The only problem I have with it is that some of the best people in office have been in office for decades. I like the rule against lobbying, but I think if people want to keep voting for someone they should be able to. On the other hand, I entirely recognize the benefits of term limits, so that the establishment is less capable of maintaining a firm grasp on congress.
It might be a good idea to limit the amount of time judges spend in the Supreme court, but I don't think they should have consecutive terms, or be elected, for obvious reasons. It should be a one-term deal, and they should be spaced enough apart for each seat that one president doesn't line up the entire judicial branch at once.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22127208 - 08/22/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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>The real point is that wealth and power should not be so concentrated.
So the solution is to steal from those who earned it and give to those who are lazy?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 44 minutes
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22127252 - 08/22/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >The real point is that wealth and power should not be so concentrated.
So the solution is to steal from those who earned it and give to those who are lazy?
They didn't earn it. Coercing the political system for increased profits isn't earning money. Who says the poor are lazy? As I have said before, you can work 84 hours a week, every single week with out a day off for a year and make less than $35,000. That's not lazy.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22127298 - 08/22/15 02:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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>They didn't earn it.
Sounds like your man obumble "they didn't build it" I'm sure the fish would agree with you.
>you can work 84 hours a week, every single week with out a day off for a year and make less than $35,000. That's not lazy.
No, its stupid. Actually, he would make around 40k with time and a half for overtime even if he got only the fed minimum. Most states and most jobs pay more than that.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22127337 - 08/22/15 02:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Trump's dad made a fortune. Trump borrowed money from pops to get into real estate. This isn't a rags to riches story here. Trump had a different starting line in life then most of us.
As far as taking from the rich to feed the poor, when executive salaries have gone up 900% in the last twenty years and the middle classes wages haven't even kept up with inflation I'd say someone is taking money but it's not the poor.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (08/22/15 02:40 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 44 minutes
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
#22127344 - 08/22/15 02:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >They didn't earn it.
Sounds like your man obumble "they didn't build it" I'm sure the fish would agree with you.
>you can work 84 hours a week, every single week with out a day off for a year and make less than $35,000. That's not lazy.
No, its stupid. Actually, he would make around 40k with time and a half for overtime even if he got only the fed minimum. Most states and most jobs pay more than that.
No, I calculated it. After tax he would bring home around $32k.
Ok, apparently you think people who work hard are idiots, and CEO's actually earn $13,000/hour. They say not to try to rationalize with the irrational, so I won't bother.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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