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InvisibleStonehenge
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Posts: 14,850
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22124057 - 08/21/15 07:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

>Walmart isn't creating jobs.  It just moves them around and often depresses wages in the area.  It also takes the revenue out of the community where as a small business owner would be more likely to spend that money locally.

Then why does govt pay them to come in and set up shop?

>No one really wants Walmart around.  But when they decide to open up shop city councils negotiate tax breaks so they don't lose out on the sales tax.

How would they lose out on the sales tax? If they don't create jobs then they don't create more sales either. Govt is dumb.

>The only say the city council has is if they give a tax break to encourage Walmart to build within city limits instead of on county land.

Wm will build where the customers are. I have not seen them go out in the boonies to save on taxes. Often its the state giving the breaks, not the city.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22124120 - 08/21/15 07:43 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
lol at you still trying to construct this narrative.  Here let me edit that shit to put it in perspective for everyone else.

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Walmart wants to make/save as much as possible.  City councils want to make/save as much as possible so they give Walmart property tax breaks so they don't hemorrhage sales tax revenue.

Hmmm.  Sounds exactly like lds is stuck in/trying to create a narrative of city councils being dumb and Walmart being smart







I'm not creating anything. I can see you don't care much for Walmart. Letting that color your vision seems foolish.

Government offers money, Walmart takes money. Government is stupid for offering it, Walmart would be stupid not to take it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Posts: 34,247
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22124138 - 08/21/15 07:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
No one really wants Walmart around.




No. You don't want Walmart around. Many of the people that shop there do.

In the end, it doesn't matter if you like them or not. If there wasn't a demand, there'd not be a Walmart.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22124157 - 08/21/15 07:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I'm not creating anything. I can see you don't care much for Walmart. Letting that color your vision seems foolish.




I don't care much for Walmart but I think I've been quite fair to it on this topic.  As I pointed out many businesses do this exact thing all over the country everyday.  I don't think it's fair that we're singling out Walmart here.

I think your opinions of Government is coloring your own perception.  Keep in mind we're not talking about the federal government here at all but city councils.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Posts: 34,247
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22124166 - 08/21/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm aware of what we're talking about. My perception of city councils is some things they do are good, somethings they do are stupid.

Tax breaks for businesses are among the stupid ones.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,868
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22124167 - 08/21/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

its true. anyone here every driven across country?  I swear, okies, arkies, and whatnot literally worship at the alter of "the Wall Mart". they fuckin love that shit.  one more reason that the civilized states should cut them loose.


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22124169 - 08/21/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
No one really wants Walmart around.




No. You don't want Walmart around. Many of the people that shop there do.

In the end, it doesn't matter if you like them or not. If there wasn't a demand, there'd not be a Walmart.




I meant no one in the context of local economies.

Yes, the consumer driven mind always wants cheaper shit at a lower price.  It's why Walmart has thrived so well in this country.

The economic reality is that it depresses wages and takes revenue out of communities.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22124176 - 08/21/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The 'civilized' states love their Walmarts as much as the rest.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22124182 - 08/21/15 07:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I'm aware of what we're talking about. My perception of city councils is some things they do are good, somethings they do are stupid.

Tax breaks for businesses are among the stupid ones.




Construct an argument then explaining why it's dumb.

I think I've done a fairly good job explaining why it's not but I'm curious as to your position.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22124193 - 08/21/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
I meant no one in the context of local economies.




The problem with most blanket statements, including yours, is they're often wrong.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,868
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22124195 - 08/21/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

i don't know, i don't think i've ever heard anyobody speak of "the Wall Mart"(you should be reading that in forrest gumps' voice) in as reverent a tone as the okies i've encountered.


--------------------


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22124211 - 08/21/15 08:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
I meant no one in the context of local economies.




The problem with most blanket statements, including yours, is they're often wrong.




The only one making a blanket statement is you.  Government is dumb and Walmart is smart.

I explained in great detail the realities behind city council decision making and you continue to dodge.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22124230 - 08/21/15 08:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

lol I'm high sorry.  We're having two conversations.

You're right I have no idea.  Maybe some local economies want walmart around.  I can't imagine a reason for it outside of bribery but that doesn't mean there isn't one.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22124250 - 08/21/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I'm not creating anything. I can see you don't care much for Walmart. Letting that color your vision seems foolish.




I don't care much for Walmart but I think I've been quite fair to it on this topic.  As I pointed out many businesses do this exact thing all over the country everyday.  I don't think it's fair that we're singling out Walmart here.

I think your opinions of Government is coloring your own perception.  Keep in mind we're not talking about the federal government here at all but city councils.




Of course Walmart uses the Federal government to affect policy. They have 2 ex-Senators on their lobbying team! We refer to this as 'the revolving door'.

I understand what LDS is saying, but I see this very differently. These companies use dirty tricks to affect policy, like the revolving door. Government shouldn't be up for sale, but politicians are, and by LDS's logic, politicians should take the massive sums of money Walmart is offering them, which is essentially bribing government officials with ridiculously high paying jobs when they leave office. Thats the world we live in, right?

Well if that's the way you like it, fine. I will cast my vote for government officials like Bernie Sanders who will fight back for the little guy, and not guys like Jeb Bush who will get rid if the minimum wage, or Obama/Clintin who will expand free trade. I am not ok with what these people are doing to our country.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22124265 - 08/21/15 08:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Construct an argument then explaining why it's dumb.




I need to explain why the equivalent of giving away money is a bad thing for government to do? If they do it for one, they should do it for all. Or none. Tax breaks pick winners and losers. If you owned a business, would you want your government giving you the finger?

Do you want your town center dying because your city council gave tax breaks?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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 User Gallery

Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22124272 - 08/21/15 08:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
The only one making a blanket statement is you.  Government is dumb and Walmart is smart.




Except that what I said was "Government offers money, Walmart takes money. Government is stupid for offering it, Walmart would be stupid not to take it. "

Not the same thing.

Quote:

I explained in great detail the realities behind city council decision making and you continue to dodge.




Dodging? :lmafo:

Get over yourself. I'm not hunched over the computer hitting refresh as quickly as my fingers will move.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22124281 - 08/21/15 08:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It all comes down to bribery like I've been saying for years.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22124293 - 08/21/15 08:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Construct an argument then explaining why it's dumb.




I need to explain why the equivalent of giving away money is a bad thing for government to do? If they do it for one, they should do it for all. Or none. Tax breaks pick winners and losers. If you owned a business, would you want your government giving you the finger?

Do you want your town center dying because your city council gave tax breaks?




I agree. The reason the tax code is so complicated is because of corruption, and government giving breaks to their friends.

If government subsidizes a comoany, government should be taking the profits also.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22124303 - 08/21/15 08:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I'm not creating anything. I can see you don't care much for Walmart. Letting that color your vision seems foolish.




I don't care much for Walmart but I think I've been quite fair to it on this topic.  As I pointed out many businesses do this exact thing all over the country everyday.  I don't think it's fair that we're singling out Walmart here.

I think your opinions of Government is coloring your own perception.  Keep in mind we're not talking about the federal government here at all but city councils.




Of course Walmart uses the Federal government to affect policy. They have 2 ex-Senators on their lobbying team! We refer to this as 'the revolving door'.

I understand what LDS is saying, but I see this very differently. These companies use dirty tricks to affect policy, like the revolving door. Government shouldn't be up for sale, but politicians are, and by LDS's logic, politicians should take the massive sums of money Walmart is offering them, which is essentially bribing government officials with ridiculously high paying jobs when they leave office. Thats the world we live in, right?

Well if that's the way you like it, fine. I will cast my vote for government officials like Bernie Sanders who will fight back for the little guy, and not guys like Jeb Bush who will get rid if the minimum wage, or Obama/Clintin who will expand free trade. I am not ok with what these people are doing to our country.




How you get this shit so wrong baffles me.  Walmart shouldn't give, nor get, money from politicians.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 2 hours, 13 minutes
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22124306 - 08/21/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
It all comes down to bribery like I've been saying for years.




You're right. This is part of the reason I like Bernie idea for making elections publicly funded.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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