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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
    #22116241 - 08/20/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
yeah, for once i agree with you qman, this place was pretty nice till Reagan got his grubby little paws on it.





Agreed... Reagan broke America.




When did globalization go into full force?  That started under Bill's term.




Reagan got the ball rolling on free trade. It was Reagans ideology that broke America on several fronts, including his tax policies and the war on drugs which has lead to America housing 25% of the worlds prisoners, with only 5% of the worlds population. I dont think presidents are always to credit or to blame, but Reagan certainly was.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Every one of you should see this video.
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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22116243 - 08/20/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
bah! it started under Nixon's term.




Right, it accelerated under clinton because of computers and free trade.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlineqman
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22116254 - 08/20/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
yeah, for once i agree with you qman, this place was pretty nice till Reagan got his grubby little paws on it.





Agreed... Reagan broke America.




When did globalization go into full force?  That started under Bill's term.




Reagan got the ball rolling on free trade. It was Reagans ideology that broke America on several fronts, including his tax policies and the war on drugs which has lead to America housing 25% of the worlds prisoners, with only 5% of the worlds population. I dont think presidents are always to credit or to blame, but Reagan certainly was.




"Reagan got the ball rolling on free trade"

No disagreement there, but Clinton put it into full force.

Even with all the destruction that has happened under Obama, I don't blame him. I bet he's a really nice person IRL, but he just follows orders. :puppetmaster:


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
    #22116265 - 08/20/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

"Reagan got the ball rolling on free trade"

No disagreement there, but Clinton put it into full force.

Even with all the destruction that has happened under Obama, I don't blame him. I bet he's a really nice person IRL, but he just follows orders. :puppetmaster:




True. I actually do hold some things against Obama personally though, like the TPP. I hold NAFTA against Clinton, and I hold Reagan responsible for the war on drugs, at least in its present day form.

I also hold him rssponsible for his trickle down rhetoric that has been tearing America aprt ever since.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (08/20/15 11:17 AM)


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22116291 - 08/20/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I blame Reagan for closing the mental hospitals, and defunding the UC system.
Did you guys know that University of California education used to be free for anyone who qualified for enrollment?  students paid for books.  Society paid for school.  All those successful 60-somethings that you see got to go to college for free.  Yet this is the demographic that likes to talk about how spoiled and entitled the "younger generation" is.  All those people who tell you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and whatnot were actually gov't tit-suckers.  don't mention that to them though (they don't like it if you dispel their rugged individual myth)


--------------------


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22116307 - 08/20/15 11:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I blame Reagan for closing the mental hospitals, and defunding the UC system.
Did you guys know that University of California education used to be free for anyone who qualified for enrollment?  students paid for books.  Society paid for school.  All those successful 60-somethings that you see got to go to college for free.  Yet this is the demographic that likes to talk about how spoiled and entitled the "younger generation" is.  All those people who tell you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and whatnot were actually gov't tit-suckers.  don't mention that to them though (they don't like it if you dispel their rugged individual myth)




Reagan really changed the trajectory of America toward privatization, tapping more and more cheap labor and tax policy that really favored the wealthy and corporations. 

He gets a lot of credit on the economy when a lot of his success is simply the huge drop in interest rates his first term.  Those were tectonic shifts that generated enormous changes in lending and consumer credit.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlineqman
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22116313 - 08/20/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I blame Reagan for closing the mental hospitals, and defunding the UC system.
Did you guys know that University of California education used to be free for anyone who qualified for enrollment?  students paid for books.  Society paid for school.  All those successful 60-somethings that you see got to go to college for free.  Yet this is the demographic that likes to talk about how spoiled and entitled the "younger generation" is.  All those people who tell you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and whatnot were actually gov't tit-suckers.  don't mention that to them though (they don't like it if you dispel their rugged individual myth)




Most successful 60-70 year olds have no idea how lucky and entitled they were, at least my 73 year old father knows the difference.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22116315 - 08/20/15 11:35 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:

You're a UFO junky yourself. I'm surprised you hold that against Reagan!




Hahaha ... you're right ... Insiders say that Reagan was the last President to get the full briefing on the Alien/UFO situation as GHWB didn't need it because he was in on it long before he became VP. 

From that point on, the whole thing was outsourced to privately held corporations that keep those secrets heavily compartmentalized and away from the publicly elected political class.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
    #22116319 - 08/20/15 11:37 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:


Most successful 60-70 year olds have no idea how lucky and entitled they were, at least my 73 year old father knows the difference.




Much of which was enabled by much higher tax rates on the wealthiest and corporate compensation practices that made the pay gap closer to 25X than what it often is today over 200X.  The middle class held a lot more of the wealth back then.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlineqman
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22116365 - 08/20/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:


Most successful 60-70 year olds have no idea how lucky and entitled they were, at least my 73 year old father knows the difference.




Much of which was enabled by much higher tax rates on the wealthiest and corporate compensation practices that made the pay gap closer to 25X than what it often is today over 200X.  The middle class held a lot more of the wealth back then.




It's not just the tax rates, look how weak individual entrepreneurship is today, 30-40 years ago it really was a choice for people, should I work for a company or work for myself, that option is long gone for the most part.

They are starting to corporatize every form of business today, dentists, fitness clubs, upscale restaurants, auto repair shops, ect. It's every difficult to compete with a business that can operate at a loss for a few years because they are diversified.

Once the access to capital is cut off to the private entrepreneurs, the capitalist system is no longer functional.  If I told you how much access of capital my father had in the 1980's to acquire real estate, it would blow people's minds today.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22116380 - 08/20/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

>Much of which was enabled by much higher tax rates on the wealthiest and corporate compensation practices that made the pay gap closer to 25X than what it often is today over 200X.

People on the bottom of the ladder often have attitudes like that.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
    #22116381 - 08/20/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

It's not just the tax rates, look how weak individual entrepreneurship is today, 30-40 years ago it really was a choice for people, should I work for a company or work for myself, that option is long gone for the most part.

They are starting to corporatize every form of business today, dentists, fitness clubs, upscale restaurants, auto repair shops, ect. It's every difficult to compete with a business that can operate at a loss for a few years because they are diversified.

Once the access to capital is cut off to the private entrepreneurs, the capitalist system is no longer functional.  If I told you how much access of capital my father had in the 1980's to acquire real estate, it would blow people's minds today.




A lot of Great points here. HUGE THUMBS UP.  And, to be honest, the US manufacturing advantage coming out of WW2 with all the destruction in Europe and Asia gave us 2 solid decades of complete domination.  That started to change in the 70's and really changed in the 80's.  Our quality advantage turned into a quality problem.  We were losing the game on price and quality and that's a bad situation.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlineqman
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22116422 - 08/20/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Also, "liberals" get the blame for "regulations" killing private industry, but let's be honest, many of these "regulations" kill the small guy and let the corporate interests grab more market share.

It's not "liberals" that push regulatory measures, it's big money/corporate interests that push it (under the disguise of liberalism) for their own competitive advantage. Did business regulations stop under Bush for 8 years?  Nope.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22116441 - 08/20/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Its actually amazing how well made American products from the 60's and 70's were.  I come across old tools and appliances that are still functional or repairable all the time.  plus, people are nostalgic for anything made of bakelite, so when you find an old blender or toaster or something that works, its probably worth some cash. alarm clocks too


--------------------


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
    #22116448 - 08/20/15 12:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Also, "liberals" get the blame for "regulations" killing private industry, but let's be honest, many of these "regulations" kill the small guy and let the corporate interests grab more market share.

It's not "liberals" that push regulatory measures, it's big money/corporate interests that push it (under the disguise of liberalism) for their own competitive advantage. Did business regulations stop under Bush for 8 years?  Nope.




Often the conservative view is that  .... "Capitalism and competition is for the little guys, not for the big corporations"

The big boys prefer monopolies, government protection, never ending juicy government contracts, government bailouts and corporate welfare in big heaping servings.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (08/20/15 12:15 PM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22116512 - 08/20/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Wow, Bernie draws another 19,000... you know, if it were one or two massive crowds, I'd say it was a passing fad, but he's gotten at leadt 10 crowds in different states of 10,000+. That is significant. Donald Trump even tipped his hat to Bernie. I think Trump is expecting a Trump vs Bernie race. That would be the most incredible thing this country has seen in years! Two outsiders going head to head for POTUS!

By the way, Bernie said in his speech in NV that he is introducing legislation in September to ban privatized prisons.




Only thing that worries me is Mondale and McGovern had consistently large crowds as well.

Now, I'm not saying Sanders is another McGovern, but the DNC may think otherwise and manipulate delegates to ensure Hillary's nomination (as toxic as she's become). But they better fucking make up their minds fast, Hillary is a sinking ship, and if they want Biden as their guy they better throw him in the ring YESTERDAY. Biden is just another guy, though.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22116524 - 08/20/15 12:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:

Only thing that worries me is Mondale and McGovern had consistently large crowds as well.

Now, I'm not saying Sanders is another McGovern, but the DNC may think otherwise and manipulate delegates to ensure Hillary's nomination (as toxic as she's become). But they better fucking make up their minds fast, Hillary is a sinking ship, and if they want Biden as their guy they better throw him in the ring YESTERDAY. Biden is just another guy, though.




I don't see how Hillary can possibly survive this email debacle.  I think they've got her on obstruction or at the very least, some of her people and maybe she herself will have to take the 5th under oath and that's it.  End of story.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22116555 - 08/20/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:

Only thing that worries me is Mondale and McGovern had consistently large crowds as well.

Now, I'm not saying Sanders is another McGovern, but the DNC may think otherwise and manipulate delegates to ensure Hillary's nomination (as toxic as she's become). But they better fucking make up their minds fast, Hillary is a sinking ship, and if they want Biden as their guy they better throw him in the ring YESTERDAY. Biden is just another guy, though.




I don't see how Hillary can possibly survive this email debacle.  I think they've got her on obstruction or at the very least, some of her people and maybe she herself will have to take the 5th under oath and that's it.  End of story.




Yeah, if she's made to testify and pleads the fifth there goes any semblance of credibility she had left.


--------------------


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22116577 - 08/20/15 12:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:

Yeah, if she's made to testify and pleads the fifth there goes any semblance of credibility she had left.




They will get her to plead the 5th. You can bet on it.  They've got a lot of witnesses now to interview first to get all the dirt. Rumor is they've already made a deal with someone.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22116578 - 08/20/15 12:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I blame Reagan for closing the mental hospitals, and defunding the UC system.
Did you guys know that University of California education used to be free for anyone who qualified for enrollment?  students paid for books.  Society paid for school.  All those successful 60-somethings that you see got to go to college for free.  Yet this is the demographic that likes to talk about how spoiled and entitled the "younger generation" is.  All those people who tell you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and whatnot were actually gov't tit-suckers.  don't mention that to them though (they don't like it if you dispel their rugged individual myth)






I'll tell you what, I turned 20 in 2008. It was very difficult for my generation to find a footing during the recession. Half my friends lived at home into their 20's, and some of them, like myself, went to college for degrees they couldn't afford, because they knew there was no other hope for them. Now they are saddled with mortgage-level debt and no home, and forced to compete with China for work. They are often incapable of starting a family unless they are very irresponsible. Thankfully, things are at least turning around a bit nowadays.

Yet we are expected to sit back and take all this fucking horse shit from people who actually had opportunities in America during a much brighter economic time.

They talk about how computers and videogames have made us lazy, but many older generations have trouble even figuring new technologies out. The world is far more complicated than it used to be, and it is complicated for my generation too.

I used to work 80+ hours a week trying to get ahead. Now I'm just apathetic. This economy was not fashioned for guys like myself. A whole generation fucked over. We're not playing the 'poor me' card, we are realists, and many of my generation have dropped out altogether.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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