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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Enlil]
    #22083325 - 08/12/15 08:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Enlil.  you are currently leading in the "who would you rather have a beer with" poll.  inquiring shroomerites want to know how you feel about your nomination, and significant lead in the likeability poll


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Astral Pain]
    #22083333 - 08/12/15 08:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Astral Pain said:
It's just the fact that the battery is the only thing that was altered since it ran right. Trying a new battery would eliminate it as a problem.




and as enlil pointed out it may have been a wire that didnt get replaced (either positive or ground) sometimes little ones hide... or it could be bad battery cables which are pretty hard to diagnose sometimes.

but the fact that its cranking that hard makes me think that the battery circuit to the starter is ok... so if its going to be some small cable that didnt go back on, its PROBABLY a positive cable.


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->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Astral Pain]
    #22083354 - 08/12/15 08:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Astral Pain said:
But if you start changing other things you might be messing it up in another fashion and not even know it. What are the chances your fuel system, fuses, or ignition went bad as a result of you taking the battery out. All those things were fine before you took out the battery. The only thing you messed with is the battery since it stopped running.



I agree it's highly suspect, but I'm not ready to just run out and drop another 100 on something I don't even truly believe to be the issue. I'd like to eliminate other things (that are free or things that I'm doing regardless of what the issue is) before doing something like that.

I mentioned earlier this isn't the first time we've had an issue like this with a car. The first time around it was a 95 Taurus. Same exact problem, battery ended up dead, removed it to go have it charged/inspected, returned it and suddenly the car wouldn't start. I can't remember what the problem was, but I know in the end it wasn't the battery. We never bought a new battery for that car.


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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


Edited by Shroomslip (08/12/15 08:38 PM)


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Offlineencryptor
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Enlil]
    #22083374 - 08/12/15 08:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

how old is the car?  my first thought is a weak ignition coil.  thank goodness that is replaceable easily.  did the vehicle act up after it rained or in cold temps?  do you have poor acceleration?  my thoughts are to replace the spark plugs, spark plug wires, and ignition coil.  you should see a total revamp of this car's performance.  Let us know after you install and take for a test drive.
:gethigh:


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: encryptor]
    #22083395 - 08/12/15 08:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

No indication any of it was bad on the test drive or the drive home. No stalling, weird revving or anything. I actually anticipated it would run rougher than it did. It's a 2002. There was no rain, when I went to inspect the car the engine was cold. Made sure to check for that, if for no other reason than we were told up front the catalytic converter may need to be replaced and I needed to bang on it to see if I could hear rattling, though that was before I had the codes and found it was the pre-cat that was likely bad.

All of that is already planned to be replaced, just won't get the stuff for a week.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22083416 - 08/12/15 08:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

fuel system bro. the fuel system is clogged somewhere or the pump isn't working.  was the car sitting around for a while with no gas in the tank before you test drove it?


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22083441 - 08/12/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Sitting around, yes, but no gas in the tank I don't actually know. I kinda doubt it. It had about 1/2 or so of a tank. More than an average gas can would put in it.

Also the test drive and the drive home were on separate days. We went to look at it and decide if we were even interested and then got the money together and made the deal the next day. So it's started cold and gave no indication of any issue, twice so far.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22083454 - 08/12/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If the cat or the precat are the problem, you can just disconnect the exhaust at the precat inlet and it'll start.  It'll be loud, though, and you can't run it like that.  Still, it'll tell you if that's the problem.

It's not likely to be a cat though if you drove it, replaced battery, and it didn't start.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22083556 - 08/12/15 09:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

rusty old gas tank, sitting around half empty for awhile rusting more. then you drive it a couple times and stir up all the rusty shit. bam cloggo.


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #22083617 - 08/12/15 09:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Man let's back up here people.. Fuel air or spark.. Just need to find out which one. That code will not stop the vehicle from starting a bad cat would have had performance issues when it did run..

Remove the air filter attempt to start vehicle
Grab brake clean spray it in the manifold attempt to start
Remove a coil hook it to a screwdriver on a ground and have somebody start the vehicle while look for well spark..

That's how you go about diagnosing your no start dude


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Offlineencryptor
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: rackem]
    #22083672 - 08/12/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I wouldn't troubleshoot with these other suggestions until you do your tune-up with spark plugs, wires, and ignition coil.  if you still have a problem try rackem's suggestion.


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: encryptor] * 1
    #22083680 - 08/12/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Is this how you guys fix cars? Spend money then diagnose?

That is a piss poor way of going about it.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: rackem]
    #22083686 - 08/12/15 10:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Just change everything, and if it doesn't start, change whatever's broke.


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OfflineRanOutOfWeed
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: rackem]
    #22083687 - 08/12/15 10:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The majority of parts are incredibly cheap. Spark plugs, o2 sensors....below 20 bucks..and why not replace these things seeing as the previous owner probably didn't.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: rackem]
    #22083718 - 08/12/15 10:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I dunno about anyone else but I'm not spending money and then diagnosing. I'm replacing the ignition system as part of general maintenance/tune-up. It could be one of the problems. But whether it was or wasn't, I had already planned to replace it before the car would never start. o2 sensors as well. It's a high mileage car. I don't know if any of this stuff has ever been replaced. The only thing I'm replacing blindly is the cat, but I have error codes for it. It's also only 150 and if I get everything broken down and find out the cat on it now is clean, I can always return it. Ideally I wanted to test and make sure the cat was a problem first, but I'm working in a limited time window. When I lost the ability to test for it, I decided to just go ahead and order it since error codes are suggesting it could be bad. Was also told it needed to be replaced before we bought the car.

As for waiting for the stuff I've ordered to get here before worrying about diagnosing other problems, I don't see the point really. I have nothing but time at the moment anyways. I know it could be more than one thing, but anything I can absolutely rule out now, is something I don't have to worry about ruling out later.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: RanOutOfWeed]
    #22083719 - 08/12/15 10:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Call me crazy but I would actually diagnose it first. KNOW EXACTLY what is wrong with the vehicle. Repair it so I can drive it then go to maintenane . maintenance on a non running car is like having a gun without ammo. Its worthless.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: RanOutOfWeed]
    #22083721 - 08/12/15 10:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know what year you're living in, but spark plugs and o2 sensors are going to cost more than $20 bucks.  Also, the protege has individual coils on each plug.  There are no plug wires in any sort of conventional sense.

Practically speaking, this means that unless the crank position sensor is out, all it takes is the pcm to make ignition work.  The car would try to start even if two coils or plugs weren't working.

As far as fuel, same basic deal...no pressure at all to the rail would cause it to not start, but a bad injector or two wouldn't.  Again...PCM controls injectors.

The PCM is likely not functioning either because it's bad, it's in some security mode, it's not getting input from crank position sensor, or it's getting no power.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22083726 - 08/12/15 10:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

you can probably sell the old cat to a scrapyard or someone right outside the scrapyard for close to $150


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Enlil]
    #22083729 - 08/12/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

maybe he hooked the battery up backwards at some point in all this and fried the PCM or the main fuse


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OfflineRanOutOfWeed
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Enlil]
    #22083731 - 08/12/15 10:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Funny mate, cuz i just bought both those parts together for around 40 dollars brand new


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