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RanOutOfWeed
Sleepy



Registered: 12/29/13
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: 404]
#22082738 - 08/12/15 06:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I happen to know my way around cars. The 3 things i mentioned are pretty common reasons why a car will have issues starting.
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Shroomslip
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Would an o2 sensor really stop the car from starting at all though? I know it could lead to hard starting, stalling and idling issues, but I'm not even getting a backfire or anything. I know one of the first things I need to look at when I get around to doing it, is if the car is even getting fuel. It's doing pretty much exactly what you'd expect if your gas tank and fuel lines were bone dry or something.
New o2 sensors are already on the way. Along with a new precat, VTCS solenoid, ignition coils and spark plug wires. Will be replacing the spark plugs with that stuff.
I don't think it's a vacuum system problem, I have removed pieces of it but only one at a time just to make absolutely sure I couldn't of got things mixed up. Left no room for error with it.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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RanOutOfWeed
Sleepy



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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
#22082797 - 08/12/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Did you check the timing belt? Could also be the engine fuse.
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Edited by RanOutOfWeed (08/12/15 06:38 PM)
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Shroomslip
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Also does anyone know if it's normal for the temperature gauge to go to max when the key is turned to the on position? I don't really have much experience with this car so I don't know if that's normal or not. Doesn't do that in my Sonata. But I know gauges don't behave the same for all cars.Quote:
RanOutOfWeed said: Did you check the timing belt? Could also be the engine fuse.
No I haven't really gotten around to doing much yet. I only tried jumping it and testing with the key I know did work with it.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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searching



Registered: 06/08/11
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Replace spark plugs and wires, replace fuel filter, pull a spark plug to make sure there is a spark just don't get shocked, put a fuel pressure gauge on it to make sure you have fuel pressure. Those are the first things I would try. Try using the other key also. Always start with the easiest things first. It could definitely be an ignition fuse or fuel pump fuse also.
It's not the battery, it's not the alternator, and forget about replacing of the battery. The situation now is that it has power and turns over but no ignition.
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searching



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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
#22082850 - 08/12/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: Also does anyone know if it's normal for the temperature gauge to go to max when the key is turned to the on position? I don't really have much experience with this car so I don't know if that's normal or not. Doesn't do that in my Sonata. But I know gauges don't behave the same for all cars.Quote:
RanOutOfWeed said: Did you check the timing belt? Could also be the engine fuse.
No I haven't really gotten around to doing much yet. I only tried jumping it and testing with the key I know did work with it.
If the car isn't running then the temp is not at max, don't worry.
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Shroomslip
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: searching]
#22082863 - 08/12/15 06:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Not worried about it, but if that's not normal it could be the issue. While looking around for things I should be looking at I came across a video of a mechanic showing a problem he'd never seen before. The temp sensor was reporting the engine was 14 degrees, when it was like 70 something degrees outside. It was doing the exact same thing mine is doing when he tried to start it up, after he replaced the temp sensor it started right up.
That's why I was asking.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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searching



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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: searching]
#22082873 - 08/12/15 06:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You either don't have spark or don't have fuel. Figure out what's wrong with one of those two systems. It could be no air also, but you almost definitely are getting airflow.
Fuel system consists of: fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator, and injectors.
Ignition system consists of: spark plugs, spark plug wires, coils, computer.
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searching



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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
#22082888 - 08/12/15 07:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: Not worried about it, but if that's not normal it could be the issue. While looking around for things I should be looking at I came across a video of a mechanic showing a problem he'd never seen before. The temp sensor was reporting the engine was 14 degrees, when it was like 70 something degrees outside. It was doing the exact same thing mine is doing when he tried to start it up, after he replaced the temp sensor it started right up.
That's why I was asking.
I see. I guess that's possible but it's most likely something simple and common. Since you already ordered the plugs and wires just replace those and see if that fixes it. Also try the other key since that's like a 5 second test.
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Shroomslip
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: searching]
#22082891 - 08/12/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Short of computer, the ignition system is going to be replaced whether it's bad or not, just won't have the stuff for about a week. I plan to check on the fuel system.
Already tested the other key, didn't change anything.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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searching



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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
#22082998 - 08/12/15 07:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Awesome, let us know what it ends up being. For the computer you would just need to get it scanned to see if any codes come up, which will be hard to do if you can't drive it to auto zone. That would tell you of any problems with the O2 or any other sensors.
And if you find out something from the ignition system was bad then you can count on your O2 sensors being bad and or your catalytic converter being clogged. That happens due to raw unburned fuel going through the exhaust.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
#22083136 - 08/12/15 07:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Things to check:
1. Sometimes battery cables have a smaller wire also on the positive side. Is it possible that this came off when you removed and/or replaced battery? look for unconnected wire.
2. Since putting the battery back in, have you disconnected cables and reconnected? If you were too wonky putting the thing in, you may have glitched the computer and it needs reset again.
3. Try turning it over holding down full throttle the whole time. The computer resets to a "it'll run, but not well" status when the battery is disconnected. It adjusts after it starts. Sometimes, a full throttle start will get it going.
4. Check all fuses, particularly anything that says PCM, ECU, or any three capital letters, really.
5. It's not an oxygen sensor. The car will start with a failed sensor. it won't run well, but it'll start. Besides, the oxy sensor doesn't even work when it's cold, so when it's working normal, it's doing nothing at startup.
6. A cat can cause this, but only if it's clogged. It is highly unlikely that the cat became clogged while the car was sitting for a day.
7. Autozone does have loaner code readers. You have to pay for them, but they refund your money when you bring it back.
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Shroomslip
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: searching]
#22083148 - 08/12/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah that's why I ordered the ignition stuff already. Cat is most likely bad (with a slim chance it was just the o2 sensor throwing false readings) which the most likely culprit that I've read would be fouled spark plugs and unburnt fuel. I know there are other things as well though.
I also have a post over at a Mazda forum, but things are very slow there. Though someone with experience with the car did just let me know that it's not normal for this car to have the temp sensor max out just from the key being turned to the on position. So I'll have to look into that as well.
I'll be sure to update once I find the problem, just out of principle alone. So many people ask questions about cars on forums and get ideas to check and just never return to let anyone know what happened, kinda frustrating searching through tons of dead ends with no real answers on what fixed the problem.Quote:
Enlil said: Things to check:
1. Sometimes battery cables have a smaller wire also on the positive side. Is it possible that this came off when you removed and/or replaced battery? look for unconnected wire.
2. Since putting the battery back in, have you disconnected cables and reconnected? If you were too wonky putting the thing in, you may have glitched the computer and it needs reset again.
3. Try turning it over holding down full throttle the whole time. The computer resets to a "it'll run, but not well" status when the battery is disconnected. It adjusts after it starts. Sometimes, a full throttle start will get it going.
4. Check all fuses, particularly anything that says PCM, ECU, or any three capital letters, really.
5. It's not an oxygen sensor. The car will start with a failed sensor. it won't run well, but it'll start. Besides, the oxy sensor doesn't even work when it's cold, so when it's working normal, it's doing nothing at startup.
6. A cat can cause this, but only if it's clogged. It is highly unlikely that the cat became clogged while the car was sitting for a day.
7. Autozone does have loaner code readers. You have to pay for them, but they refund your money when you bring it back.
I didn't notice a second wire, but I'll check for it. No I haven't disconnected and reconnected the battery, didn't occur to me but I'll give it a shot. Yes I have tried different throttle techniques while trying to start it. I've held it full on, I've pumped it, I've held it at varying degrees. I've asked them before, maybe mine just doesn't but I'll ask again if I have to. Has been a few years.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
Edited by Shroomslip (08/12/15 07:57 PM)
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Astral Pain
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Registered: 11/10/14
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Loc: Chicago
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
#22083223 - 08/12/15 08:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I know the battery tested good, but I would get a new one to eliminate that as a problem altogether, and if it still wont start return the battery. You could be chasing your tail around forever.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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There's nothing wrong with the battery if it's turning over for as long as he says.
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rxb
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
#22083250 - 08/12/15 08:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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well if the battery was low 10v(not charging)
and both your battery and alternator are fine (have been checked) ... you still need to charge your battery to get anywhere
but, you still have a charging problem so you should check the ground strap from the alternator to the body.
so if:
battery has been charged to full.
and the voltage at the starter is the same as the voltage at the batter (if not bad cable).
and if the alternator with the car off has an open circuit with the body (if not the ground strap is bad).
then if its turning over but not starting, try starting fluid.
if it starts with starting fluid but not otherwise, then its probably a fuel system issue. (fuel pump is the natural guess) but it could be a fuse or a relay. the fuel pump should make a whir sound when you put the key in and turn to start (before you crank it)... if you hear that but still suspect that its fuel related it may be a fuel filter...(also some people never hear that sound even if you are pointing it out to them while it is happening)
if it doesnt start with starting fluid its probably a tuneup item. (plugs/wires/button/cap/coil/etc).
all that said it of course could still be a anti-theft system thing but there should be an indicator somewhere (blinking red light).
it seems like one of those things that would be easier if i was sitting in the car and listening.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Astral Pain
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Registered: 11/10/14
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Enlil]
#22083254 - 08/12/15 08:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's just the fact that the battery is the only thing that was altered since it ran right. Trying a new battery would eliminate it as a problem.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Shroomslip
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Enlil]
#22083258 - 08/12/15 08:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I turned it over for 20-30 seconds multiple times (didn't wanna burn out the starter) before it even started to slow down any. I've also never had a car with a bad battery that couldn't be jumped and running at least while the jumper cables were still attached. If I do get a new battery it'd be as a hail mary after I've verified all other probable causes are not the issue (fuses, ignition system, fuel system).
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
#22083287 - 08/12/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The amount of power it takes to run the ignition system is miniscule compared to what it takes to turn the engine over. If it's turning over well, the battery is enough to start it. Alternator isn't even a concern at this point. It might be bad, but that's not making the car not start.
The starting fluid idea is a good one, though. If it tries to start with starting fluid, it's a fuel issue. That fuel issue could still be PCM/electrical related, but that narrows it down some.
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Astral Pain
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Registered: 11/10/14
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But if you start changing other things you might be messing it up in another fashion and not even know it. What are the chances your fuel system, fuses, or ignition went bad as a result of you taking the battery out. All those things were fine before you took out the battery. The only thing you messed with is the battery since it stopped running.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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