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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22079938 - 08/12/15 05:07 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Try the other key.

The anti theft protection thing is basically an rfid tag embedded into the plastic casing of the key and an antenna ring that is embedded in the contact in the steering column activates the tag and reads the code. The board computer checks this code against the one that's been programmed into the board computer to see if they match up. If they don't, the starter motor will turn just fine like you observed, but the board computer will refuse to supply fuel and ignite. This is more or less the universal approach across many brands for the past 15-20 years.

Coincidentally, my girlfriend has been having the exact same issue with a car she bought Monday. It'll start just fine on the spare key, but the car won't recognize the primary key and it does the same thing yours is doing: starter motor turns like a charm, but no ignition whatsoever.

So try the spare key. If it works, you can get an extra key from a dealership if you bring in the papers of the car. They can order one and have it programmed with the correct serial number (which is stored in the factory administration, so they don't even need the car itself to do the programming). I've done this in the past with a VW. The only thing required is a bit of paperwork to prove you didn't steal the car.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 26 minutes, 17 seconds
Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: koraks]
    #22079957 - 08/12/15 05:33 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If it's just the key I'm going to be so pissed :lol:

I kinda doubt it will be, I'm never that lucky, but I will honestly be pissed.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22079976 - 08/12/15 05:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Come on, just admit it, you'd be glad :wink:


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OfflineShroomslip
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Registered: 11/25/12
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: koraks]
    #22080008 - 08/12/15 05:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Well I would but I'm still going to be highly pissed. I'm supposed to be car god over here, buying a cheap car and fixing it cheap and giving my wife a better car than I have (and leaps ahead of what she has now). Money is kinda tight and don't really have money to go pouring thousands into it (the whole reason we got it is because everything checked out, it was cheap, and the problems I knew it to have were easy/cheap to fix, her current car is literally falling apart and any day now it is going to officially kick the bucket) and then we go throwing this won't start shit into the mix and I become lost.

I'm not quite panicking yet, because there are things I already need to replace that could explain it. But I'd be lying if I said my heart didn't sink when I went to start it with a fully charged battery and it just turned over forever and wouldn't start, or even try to start. I have tackled a lot of car issues, have been fixing our cars for about 10 years now, but never this particular one. Usually when a car won't start for me, you can at least tell it's trying to fire up. This is literally just the starter motor endlessly turning the engine. I'm out of my depth.

I just want to make this one work. Right now she's driving a 95 grand marquis that has been neglected (not by us, it was an inheritance from my grandmother) to the point that it only ever saw service when it broke down and wouldn't run. It burns oil at about the rate it burns gas, you can't even get in the driver side door because the door panel has fallen off and been jerry rigged back on so many times it just doesn't work anymore. It revs up and down on it's own, it nearly stalls anytime it hasn't been run for awhile, the front/lower portion of the bumper is held on with rope, the windows are so shot that you basically have to push them up by hand anytime you shut the door... It's just gonna die any day. There is just so much wrong with it at this point, it just makes more financial sense to buy the car we did and fix it, rather than try to fix the other one.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22080021 - 08/12/15 06:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

koraks idea is sound. Try the other key before anything else.

Edit: Although according to this link, the key is a standard key.

http://www.1ablelocksmith.com/BLOG/?page_id=507

I'd try it anyway. Won't cost anything.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (08/12/15 06:13 AM)


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22080081 - 08/12/15 06:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If it's a standard key, the whole transponder thing obviously is irrelevant. But like luvdemshrooms says, just give it a try. Takes 2 minutes and you'll have eliminated another potential cause.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 26 minutes, 17 seconds
Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: koraks]
    #22080146 - 08/12/15 06:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If it's not the key what would it be? Other than stuff listed. I can't help but get hung up on the whole battery thing. We had another car that did this, because of a security system we didn't have the keyfob for. I don't remember what I had to do to bypass it and get it running again (wish I did). It is literally the same symptoms as the other one. Disconnect the battery and the security goes into "you ain't goin no where, bitch" mode. I can't find a blinking light to indicate a security system, and Googled around about it, but it was of no help. Asked the prior owner and she didn't think it had one (although it was a chick and she didn't just have a friend or whoever work on it, so any time they had to disconnect the battery, they obviously had to fix that first). It's entirely possible I'm missing it. Tried to find the fuse for the security system in the fuse block, but didn't see it listed. Tried Googling schematics couldn't find anything.

Having dealt with so many beaters I just have this strong suspicion this is all somehow tied to the battery disconnect. There was 0 indication of starting/running issues before it was removed.

Right now my two best guesses (other than anti-theft/spark/ignition system) is bad battery or not getting fuel. Bad battery I can easily accept and it's a simple test, but the fuel one I have a hard time swallowing. Surely would have noticed something. Stalling, stuttering, hard idle, something. Had none. In fact it has a lot more pick up and go than I'd give a 4cylinder credit for usually. I had to take it easy on the throttle compared to my v6. It was very responsive.

Call it gut instinct, but something happened between the battery changes. I have a good feeling the alternator may be bad, but that would only explain how the battery was drained in the first place. Doesn't explain why it won't start on a full battery, unless the battery really isn't good.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22080163 - 08/12/15 07:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If you can run the starter motor for 20 seconds, the battery isn't bad. Simple as that.

One more potential cause is the fuel supply cutoff which is a safety mechanism that cuts off the fuel pump in case of a collision. It's activated by an acceleration sensor and it usually features a switch to reset it. The switch is beneath the driver's seat in many cars.

However, disconnecting the battery is unlikely to trip this mechanism. If anything, disconnecting the battery for a few minutes generally resets the error messages in the board computer and reverts it to factory settings, after which it will start to relearn itself based on sensor readings while driving. You usually don't notice anything about this, apart from weird electronics issues disappearing (for a while) after you've disconnected the battery for a couple of minutes.

Did you start the car with the primary/main key at all? And have you tried the spare one yet?

Oh, and if your battery has run empty once in the past (which you may or may not know given the car's history), it will likely not hold a charge well. Car batteries don't handle being drained very well. Once a battery starts to have issues (e.g. after the alternator has bugged out, even if it's been replaced after that), it usually needs replacement. You'll notice once winter comes and the cold weather kicks in :wink:


Edited by koraks (08/12/15 07:06 AM)


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OfflineShroomslip
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Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: koraks]
    #22080207 - 08/12/15 07:26 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

No the key I've been using in all my testing is the melted one I mentioned. The only key that has started it, was the spare that my wife has (it's her car, she picked the key, why I got the original I have no idea).

As for the battery turning over the car, I've read that's not always a guarantee the battery is good. It may be enough to turn the motor but not enough get the car to start. I've also seen this in action. Whether that's bullshit and what I experienced was a fluke, I have no idea.

I plan to try and jump the car, IME that has a made a difference in the past on other cars. If jumping works, I can pretty much narrow it down to the battery. I'll try it with spare first (battery is too dead to start the car now after all the other attempts I made) and if it starts, then I'll try with my key. If the spare works and mine doesn't, I know it's the key.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Registered: 10/09/10
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22080311 - 08/12/15 08:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Just bring your car to real man OP. He'll fix it for you


--------------------


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OfflineShroomslip
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Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 26 minutes, 17 seconds
Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Patlal]
    #22080329 - 08/12/15 08:12 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I am a real man. All I lack is the diagnostic systems that are ridiculously expensive. With the needed equipment I could tear a car down all the way and build it back up. Actually something I want to do one day. Though it wouldn't be this new BS with electrically controlled everything. It'd be a late 60's/early 70's muscle car.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22080383 - 08/12/15 08:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah if it turns too slowly, it won't start. But a bad battery will generally cop out pretty quickly after having a few tries starting the car. Before jump start it, try the other key please.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Registered: 11/25/12
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: koraks]
    #22080500 - 08/12/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

At this point all I can do is jump it. Battery is dead from tying all kinds of things and trying to start it. We're back to where it won't turn the engine over.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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InvisibleBlackWidow
Male
Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 2,395
` [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22080553 - 08/12/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

`


Edited by BlackWidow (02/03/21 03:43 PM)


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OfflineGiftofdeprivation
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Registered: 07/20/13
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22080595 - 08/12/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Idk what kind of advice you're getting here, but here's my quick 2 cents:

Cars need compression, fuel, air, and spark to start.
1. test your plugs for spark
2. push fuel directly into the airbox to test fuel. If it starts and dies, that's what you were missing
3. Compression is a bitch to test, good luck.
4. Air means some hose is disconnected somewhere. Look for anomolies under the hood :shrug:

Here's hoping you find/have found better  advice!


--------------------

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Edited by Giftofdeprivation (08/12/15 09:47 AM)


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OfflineShroomslip
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Registered: 11/25/12
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: koraks]
    #22082391 - 08/12/15 05:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Tried jumping it with the key that drove it home, didn't help.

Didn't yet get around to testing any of the other stuff so far. Was up all night so I don't feel like messing with it today.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,854
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Giftofdeprivation]
    #22082439 - 08/12/15 05:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Giftofdeprivation said:
Idk what kind of advice you're getting here, but here's my quick 2 cents:

Cars need compression, fuel, air, and spark to start.
1. test your plugs for spark
2. push fuel directly into the airbox to test fuel. If it starts and dies, that's what you were missing
3. Compression is a bitch to test, good luck.
4. Air means some hose is disconnected somewhere. Look for anomolies under the hood :shrug:

Here's hoping you find/have found better  advice!




:whathesaid:
your injectors could be clogged. this happened to me with a 95 grand prix
check to make sure all of your vacuum hoses are attached properly


--------------------


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
Weedbass
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Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 3,421
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22082582 - 08/12/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I had a very similar problem with my old back up SUV for the winter months, a 1999 ford expedition with an aftermarket supercharger. I left the headlights on one night because I was rolling all night and was too tired to notice. So obviously the battery was dead and I charged it up. The truck would not fully start, it just made the noise it does right before the engine fully starts. There was a loud clicking sound coming from the fuse box as well, but nothing wrong with any fuses.

The battery tested fine, had a charge, but it still wasn't working. I bought a new battery just in case and it worked fine


--------------------
   
:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

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OfflineRanOutOfWeed
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Registered: 12/29/13
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Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22082638 - 08/12/15 06:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Change 02 sensor, change spark plugs, change battery. All of that is fairly cheap. If all else fails then take it to a mechanic.


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Invisible404
error
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
Re: Car help, won't start. [Re: RanOutOfWeed]
    #22082699 - 08/12/15 06:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RanOutOfWeed said:
If all else fails then take it to a mechanic.




go back to giving out nutritional advice.


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