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OfflineGiftofdeprivation
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Registered: 07/20/13
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Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat?
    #22076333 - 08/11/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

So, consider that a cat's life expectancy is about 5x longer when it's indoor only. Most people live near busy streets and/or wild animals.

On the other side: If you have not already, I suggest you learn about poverty of the stimulus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_of_the_stimulus
and read/watch the allegory of the cave (one of my favorite stories by plato):
http://study.com/academy/lesson/the-allegory-of-the-cave-by-plato-summary-analysis-explanation.html
...if you wish to keep up with myself and others here.

I posted it in the pub for a reason though, so do your worst, fiends! :shakefist:

I ask because my cat is 3 years old. She was let outside a bit by the previous owner, but in the last 8 months I've had her, she's gone outside about 4 times a week with a leash. Naturally, she really wants to go out alone. Once she sneaked out and I found her stuck in my neighbors garage for a full day. She might have missed her cognitive developmental period to learn what she needs to survive outside. What can I do? I just don't want my Mina to be my slave. It's inevitable, huh?


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Edited by Giftofdeprivation (08/11/15 01:15 PM)


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OfflineDilsnique
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation] * 2
    #22076358 - 08/11/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You are Mina's slave.



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OfflineAdolin
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation] * 2
    #22076373 - 08/11/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Giftofdeprivation said:
So, consider that a cat's life expectancy is about 5x longer when it's indoor only.




5x? thats a pretty ridiculous number. your getting your info from wackadoo sources

we found my cat on the side of the road. it was a couple months old i think.

shes been going outside every day for 16 years. well, except in winter.

in fact, if she didnt go outside, she probably would have developed diabetes a long time ago. the only problems weve had with her being outdoors are the ocassional tick, and her fighting with other cats


i personally think all cats should be allowed outside if its possible. they cant harm people(unless their forcably picked up i guess), and dont wander too far away and get lost unlike dogs


Edited by Adolin (08/11/15 01:25 PM)


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OfflineOggy
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Dilsnique] * 2
    #22076387 - 08/11/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yes it is morally acceptable. Cat's are invasive species. They kill natural fauna of an area even when they're not hungry. That's just their instinct.
Also an outdoor cat would have an immeasurable lifespan due to random events of nature(and human) intervention. Such as dogs, birds of prey(actually happened to me as I was watching the cat..) and other animals. Also cars and the horrible nature of people.


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OfflineGiftofdeprivation
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Oggy]
    #22076423 - 08/11/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Oggy said:
Also cars and the horrible nature of people.



The good nature of people can cause problems too. Stranger feeds an outdoor cat, it's basically their cat now.


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InvisibleOsculateOfDemise
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Oggy]
    #22076425 - 08/11/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I have had cats that have died while outside, ive also had cats that do just fine having outdoor access. It really depends on how 'street smart' your cat is. You can't just randomly decide one day after the cat is a few years old that it can go outside. My cat is/was feral and had no problem fending for himself and was smart enough to know when to get the fuck back inside. A lot of other cats are not. It also depends on your area. Are there lots of traffic on your street? Dogs? Wild animals? We cannot predict the future though and anything can happen. It's a gamble either way.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation] * 1
    #22076435 - 08/11/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Giftofdeprivation said:
So, consider that a cat's life expectancy is about 5x longer when it's indoor only. Most people live near busy streets and/or wild animals.

On the other side: If you have not already, I suggest you learn about poverty of the stimulus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_of_the_stimulus
... She might have missed her cognitive developmental period to learn what she needs to survive outside. What can I do? I just don't want my Mina to be my slave. It's inevitable, huh?




Your cat has missed the opportunity to learn proper grammar and will forever have a meow impediment.

Cats are pretty naturally adept hunters -- two of the cats in my house are feral cats that we  ended up taming, but the third is a house cat who had never been outside until he was roughly seven or older.
House cat still hunts with full proficiency when it comes to mice in the yard and garage, just none of them have to worry about sleeping in the snow or rain.
Fortunately, none of them actively need to fear for their lives and survival every day -- when they get tired of hunting for fun they can go take a 10 hour nap on the bed under the shelter of the roof.

By contrast, stray cats living in the city in Montréal (which has one of the largest stray cat populations in North America to my comprehension) frequently die within 2-3 years due to things like exposure to the elements.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Oggy] * 1
    #22076438 - 08/11/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Had indoor cats for years and I always felt horrible. Cats live for the outdoors man, same as dogs. When I finally let them out they loved it. (one of said cats had very poor survival skills but one of our outdoor cats toughened him up. they're not helpless, I think your cat could learn the ways. its instinct based)

I have a very frail kitty who spends almost all of his time just sitting in the backyard enjoying simply being outdoors.


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OfflineGiftofdeprivation
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Tantrika]
    #22076452 - 08/11/15 01:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SweetLeafSamadhi said:
Your cat has missed the opportunity to learn proper grammar and will forever have a meow impediment.


Poverty of the simulus:

Haha, yeah, back in university all the developmental psych professors and students stole this linguistic gem and used it as their own. Myself included. We stretch the meaning a bit :P


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Edited by Giftofdeprivation (08/11/15 01:38 PM)


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OfflineLove_spirit
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation] * 1
    #22076459 - 08/11/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I have a very happy outdoor indoor kitty. I would never get a cat if it had to remain indoors. Also caging birds is like the worst thing you can do. :mad2:
I Would rather live a day of freedom then a lifetime in a cage.


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Love_spirit] * 1
    #22076625 - 08/11/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Female cats tend to do better outside than male cats. So far my outside male cat mortality rate is 100% and the mortality rate for girl cats is 0% (at least for traumatic injury).


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OfflineLove_spirit
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 1
    #22076670 - 08/11/15 02:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Adopted a female cat for this reason.


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OfflinePsilocybend
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: OsculateOfDemise] * 1
    #22076760 - 08/11/15 02:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OsculateOfDemise said:
I have had cats that have died while outside, ive also had cats that do just fine having outdoor access. It really depends on how 'street smart' your cat is. You can't just randomly decide one day after the cat is a few years old that it can go outside. My cat is/was feral and had no problem fending for himself and was smart enough to know when to get the fuck back inside. A lot of other cats are not. It also depends on your area. Are there lots of traffic on your street? Dogs? Wild animals? We cannot predict the future though and anything can happen. It's a gamble either way.




Pretty much this! If you don't think your cat would survive out on his own, I personally don't see a problem with walking em on a leash.


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InvisibleA Day InThe Life
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Love_spirit] * 1
    #22076802 - 08/11/15 02:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I have a cat that's a rescue from an animal shelter. I had an indoor cat throughout my childhood and was used to that (couldn't really go out if he wanted, declawed and lived in an apartment building) so I tried to do this with the rescue cat. It just didn't work out, she was timid at first and stayed inside but then after a bit she'd sit by the door all day and wait for you to come home and dart out before you had a chance to stop her. She'd always be back a short time later though so I figured maybe that's what she's used to and so I just started letting her go out whenever she wanted.

The neighbours talk about her just chilling in their backyards all day and thankfully they all seem to like her company/personality. Some nights she doesn't get back home before I go to bed but she's always around somewhere and she's about 10 years old now and haven't had any issues aside from the odd fight with another cat. I now feel like it would be a shame to keep a cat locked up indoors all day; I can see how restless she gets when she can't go out.

EDIT: my cat is also spayed and there isn't a lot of traffic near the house.


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Edited by A Day InThe Life (08/11/15 02:56 PM)


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InvisibleNiffla
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Psilocybend]
    #22076840 - 08/11/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know, so long as an indoor cat receives lots of love & attention, I don't see the problem. They have an endless supply of food & water and have a roof over their head in a room temperature environment, as opposed to having to endure the harsh summers & winters that a lot of climates present.

It's not like they're locked inside a literal cage.

I have a sister who lives out in the country, and her kids like cats. And she doesn't want an indoor cat to take care of, so they made all of their cats outdoor cats. 4 of them to be exact (one at a time). And all 4 eventually, anywhere from a few months to a few years, disappeared. Probably hunted down by coyotes, because where they live coyotes are rampant.

I have a friend that owned 2 outdoor cats (this time in the city) -- and one was fatally hit by a car (and didn't die immediately; had to suffer for several hours before they got her to the clinic to be put down), and the other came back one day with a severe leg injury (fight with another animal according to him) and died 4 days later after taking it to the vet.

Yes, ideally a cat would have the best of both worlds -- access to indoors & out, but a highly populated city is a very, very dangerous world for a domesticated cat to be, and the countryside can be equally dangerous in different ways.

In a lot of ways indoor cats have the good life.


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Edited by Niffla (08/11/15 03:04 PM)


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation] * 1
    #22076927 - 08/11/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Giftofdeprivation said:
So, consider that a cat's life expectancy is about 5x longer when it's indoor only. Most people live near busy streets and/or wild animals.

On the other side: If you have not already, I suggest you learn about poverty of the stimulus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_of_the_stimulus
and read/watch the allegory of the cave (one of my favorite stories by plato):
http://study.com/academy/lesson/the-allegory-of-the-cave-by-plato-summary-analysis-explanation.html
...if you wish to keep up with myself and others here.

I posted it in the pub for a reason though, so do your worst, fiends! :shakefist:

I ask because my cat is 3 years old. She was let outside a bit by the previous owner, but in the last 8 months I've had her, she's gone outside about 4 times a week with a leash. Naturally, she really wants to go out alone. Once she sneaked out and I found her stuck in my neighbors garage for a full day. She might have missed her cognitive developmental period to learn what she needs to survive outside. What can I do? I just don't want my Mina to be my slave. It's inevitable, huh?




That last part almost sounds like animal abuse. Four times in eight months?


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Bitter Cactus] * 1
    #22076935 - 08/11/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't read the whole thread, but indoor only is the only way I can keep my cat. He wouldn't survive a day in my yard.


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[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote]
u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]


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InvisibleNiffla
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Bitter Cactus] * 1
    #22076957 - 08/11/15 03:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
That last part almost sounds like animal abuse. Four times in eight months?




4 times a week


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OfflineGiftofdeprivation
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22077036 - 08/11/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:
interesting you'd see that as abuse after the previous poster's points about the dangers of the outdoors. Conditioning her to want to go outside might be abusive...

After reading everyone's posts, I'm learning that it really is a situational thing. In my case, I'll probably continue to confine her to a leash (we're right next to a major arterial road in a suburb of Seattle and at some point I might move to SE Asia, where cats aren't pets). If she really gets so determined to go outside alone, I'll relocate her to a nice farm (euphemism; I'm going to eat her).

Thank you for the responses so far!


Edited by Giftofdeprivation (08/11/15 03:48 PM)


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InvisibleA Day InThe Life
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation] * 1
    #22077055 - 08/11/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

My neighbours let their cat out only in their backyard. They installed this special cat netting around the fences and trees thats on an angle so he can't climb out over anything. I'm not sure if they keep him to the backyard for his safety or because he literally just goes around starting fights with the first cat he sees every time he gets out.


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Edited by A Day InThe Life (08/11/15 03:52 PM)


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Invisiblepirate-blues
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: A Day InThe Life] * 1
    #22077153 - 08/11/15 04:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

My cat flatout insisted on being an inside/outside cat. She would hide and every time I'd open the door to let my dog out, she dart out. Usually she just chilled with my dog in a small urban backyard(it was more like a garden, and had grass and trees that liked to sit in and around). She started spending a little more time outside, and there's no way she'd let me catch her.

I distinctly remember throwing cat food at her when I took ambien to go to bed and she snuck out right as it was kicking in. In the end, I let her win. Then one day my neighbor found her dead, there were no visible marks of bodily harm, her tail was kind of puffed up and the neighbor said that sometimes cats do that when scared - but ultimately, I suspect the poor thing just died of a heart issue. She was a runt, and the vet said she had a heart murmur. I was so sad though, I definitely cried that day.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: pirate-blues] * 2
    #22077358 - 08/11/15 05:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I have 3 now.  They never go outside because I live 100 feet from Route 1.  I have had outdoor cats.  One got squished and one lived to be 15.  I live in a 3 story house.  They get plenty of exercise following me up and down the stairs and plenty of attention. Occasionally they get a mouse.  None of them are fat because I feed them right.  Sometimes Frankie and Roy go for a stroll on the deck but they rarely express an interest in going down the steps and turn right around when I make a move.  They do not run from me ever except when they want to play chase.  They are happy and healthy and don't really care that they don't go out much.  Lola has no interest at all.


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Invisiblesquidhead
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: pirate-blues]
    #22077404 - 08/11/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You want to eradicate hunger from Asian countries?

Let them eat cat. So many problems would be gone if that was done...along with legalizing ALL drugs. I'm talking over-the-counter heroin/cocaine/MDMA/weed/PCP/meth/LSD/mescaline/peyote/mushrooms/crack/Jimson Weed/Belladonna/barbituates/amphetamines, etc, etc.

Anything that can be snorted, shot, ingested, melted on an eyeball (Windowpane), plugged up your ass, everything!! Of course, there are a couple rules = must be 25+ yrs of age, can't purchase if your skin is turning a shade of blue, must have a physician's note if babbling, etc.

Street gangs wouldn't have a source of income anymore. Cartels would be worthless, as now the federal government controls sales. Tax the ever-lovin' piss outta these recreational substances & give that $$$ to the poor street-peeps looking for shelter.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: squidhead]
    #22077682 - 08/11/15 06:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

squidhead said:
You want to eradicate hunger from Asian countries?

Let them eat cat. ...




United Nations proposed that the solution to food issues is to eat insects.

http://www.fao.org/forestry/edibleinsects/en/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-22508439

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/24/world/edible-insect-food-business/



:evilpuke:


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Tantrika]
    #22077694 - 08/11/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SweetLeafSamadhi said:
Quote:

squidhead said:
You want to eradicate hunger from Asian countries?

Let them eat cat. ...




United Nations proposed that the solution to food issues is to eat insects.

http://www.fao.org/forestry/edibleinsects/en/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-22508439

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/24/world/edible-insect-food-business/



:evilpuke:



which totally makes sense. bugs are good eatin and can be quite tasty

but really the solution is to significantly (non-violently) reduce the population.


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OfflineGiftofdeprivation
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Tantrika]
    #22077708 - 08/11/15 06:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Why are humans so resistant to change?

It's all the same nutritional shit: protein, carbs, and fat. Anything extra is just "fiber"


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22077754 - 08/11/15 06:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

SweetLeafSamadhi said:
Quote:

squidhead said:
You want to eradicate hunger from Asian countries?

Let them eat cat. ...




United Nations proposed that the solution to food issues is to eat insects.

http://www.fao.org/forestry/edibleinsects/en/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-22508439

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/24/world/edible-insect-food-business/

....

:evilpuke:



which totally makes sense. bugs are good eatin and can be quite tasty

but really the solution is to significantly (non-violently) reduce the population.




Solid enough source of nutrition, but going to have to work on the presentation at least.
But then, do not even like salad so a bug salad is something I am doubly resistant to. :lol:

Think that population reduction would take a shift in views on many people's parts -- personally decided to opt for a vasectomy without parenting my own children, if ever my relationship with a woman gets to the point that we want to raise kids we can look at adopting.
The idea of cutting off part of a family lineage is not something many people are up for though, and a person here or there probably will not be sufficient. :shrug:


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation]
    #22077862 - 08/11/15 06:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Its not as bad as putting a bird in a cage, but I do think its pretty shitty for a cat to be stuck indoors.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: DieCommie] * 2
    #22077883 - 08/11/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I have a three story house with over 2,000 sq ft.  I got my cats from a shelter.  None of them are fat and they are happy as shit.  If I let them out they will be squished.  If I didn't adopt them three cats would have been put down. Tell me how I'm an asshole.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22077948 - 08/11/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The gilded cage is still a cage, but its better than being squished.  It doesn't sound ideal, but real life rarely is.  I don't like keeping my dogs locked up in a fenced yard.


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OfflineGiftofdeprivation
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22077984 - 08/11/15 07:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

As they get older, the chances of introducing them to the outdoors becomes more and more precarious for their survival.

If they were babies when you got them, would it be morally wrong to confine them to the indoors?

Should one seek a designated indoor cat if that's what they are seeking?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: DieCommie] * 1
    #22078038 - 08/11/15 07:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
The gilded cage is still a cage, but its better than being squished.  It doesn't sound ideal, but real life rarely is.  I don't like keeping my dogs locked up in a fenced yard.



I understand the sentiment but the house is big enough, thay have each other and me and my wife and they don't know anything else so they don't miss it.  I can assure you my house is not a cage for them any more than it is for me..  I will repeat my point.  If I didn't adopt them 3 cats would have had to be put down.  There is only so much room at the shelter and only so many cats can get adopted.  The shelter is a far less gilded cage than my house.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #22078122 - 08/11/15 07:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
The gilded cage is still a cage, but its better than being squished.  It doesn't sound ideal, but real life rarely is.  I don't like keeping my dogs locked up in a fenced yard.



I understand the sentiment but the house is big enough, thay have each other and me and my wife and they don't know anything else so they don't miss it.  I can assure you my house is not a cage for them any more than it is for me..  I will repeat my point.  If I didn't adopt them 3 cats would have had to be put down.  There is only so much room at the shelter and only so many cats can get adopted.  The shelter is a far less gilded cage than my house.




Not sure if many people fully realize just how bad the shelter system can be.

Spent many years volunteering in various shelters.

The cats sit in a small cage roughly the size of a carrying kennel for nearly 22 hours per day in the most poorly funded of them.
They get an opportunity to run around with the other cats for about an hour twice per day while their cage/litterbox is cleaned and their food is refilled -- quality of food depends on quality of donations; dry food is standard but in good months canned food can be a few times per week.
Better-funded shelters have cases where it's 30+ cats all kept together with communal litter boxes and food dishes in a room the size of a decent living room.

The best possible situation I have seen for a shelter pet to end up in is a foster-care home system where they live in a temporary home and have potential adoption visits arranged through phone or website.

When new cats come in, the oldest/least adoptable cats are euthanized to make space.
So, everyone who does not spay or neuter their pets may end up killing off a bunch of shelter animals every time they cannot find home for a new batch of kittens.

Anyone who has the space and the means, even if it is an indoor-only space, really ought to consider adoption.  So many good potential pets are killed each year because kittens are more popular. :sad:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Tantrika]
    #22078207 - 08/11/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I adopt kittens because I want to raise them from scratch.  If you don't adopt a kitten eventually they become a shelter cat.  New Rochelle isn't like what you describe.  The adults mingle all day.  They do a good job but they can only support so many cats.  They make you pay for neutering upfront when you adopt.  You get your money back when you prove you did it. 

That place you were at is fucked up.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22078218 - 08/11/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yes. But don't smear shit in its face and throw it out to the curb if it has an accident.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22078402 - 08/11/15 08:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I adopt kittens because I want to raise them from scratch.  If you don't adopt a kitten eventually they become a shelter cat.  New Rochelle isn't like what you describe.  The adults mingle all day.  They do a good job but they can only support so many cats.  They make you pay for neutering upfront when you adopt.  You get your money back when you prove you did it. 

That place you were at is fucked up.




It was more to do with funding at that particular place; a couple years after I moved they finally got funding together for a better facility which was a significant improvement. 
The original facility was tiny and packed -- the dogs got better spacing and a large outdoor run to play in, but much of the interior was basically cages built into the walls and stacked up wherever space was available.  Even then, many ended up shipped off to the vet in the end.  The dog and cat cages were all in one room, and we would have to let all the dogs outside (with special smaller runs built in to separate those that were prone to fighting) before we could get to work on the cats. 
Certainly not all are that bad, but in areas where fundraising doesn't work to huge benefit the facilities are not always top notch.

There are also no-kill shelters present in a number of areas, which are significant improvements all around; however, they can only house so many as you note.

All my adult cat adoptions have been with me until they died of age-related issues, except one who is still with me.  He's slowly going blind, but he's still full of love.
One kitten from a friend's litter, she lived well rather than being sent to the shelter.

Montréal was really where the actual population issue was the hardest though -- every year there is what is endearingly referred to as "National Moving Day" where many people's yearly rent contract runs out all on the same day.
Mass moving also means mass pet abandonment, when people go from an apartment that can house a pet to one where it isn't allowed.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
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Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation]
    #22078567 - 08/11/15 08:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It's morally worse to let them roam around outside. They'll kill indiscriminately, and they're an introduced species in ecosystems where they don't belong.


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InvisiblecApTaInCrAp
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22079481 - 08/12/15 12:14 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If your gonna let your cat outside (which i feel you should) do us a favor and listen to Bob Barker...



My kitten was adopted, one of my g/f cats was adopted and the other was a barn cat.


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Edited by cApTaInCrAp (08/12/15 12:15 AM)


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