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OfflineGiftofdeprivation
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Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat?
    #22076333 - 08/11/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

So, consider that a cat's life expectancy is about 5x longer when it's indoor only. Most people live near busy streets and/or wild animals.

On the other side: If you have not already, I suggest you learn about poverty of the stimulus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_of_the_stimulus
and read/watch the allegory of the cave (one of my favorite stories by plato):
http://study.com/academy/lesson/the-allegory-of-the-cave-by-plato-summary-analysis-explanation.html
...if you wish to keep up with myself and others here.

I posted it in the pub for a reason though, so do your worst, fiends! :shakefist:

I ask because my cat is 3 years old. She was let outside a bit by the previous owner, but in the last 8 months I've had her, she's gone outside about 4 times a week with a leash. Naturally, she really wants to go out alone. Once she sneaked out and I found her stuck in my neighbors garage for a full day. She might have missed her cognitive developmental period to learn what she needs to survive outside. What can I do? I just don't want my Mina to be my slave. It's inevitable, huh?


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Edited by Giftofdeprivation (08/11/15 01:15 PM)


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OfflineDilsnique
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation] * 2
    #22076358 - 08/11/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You are Mina's slave.



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OfflineAdolin
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation] * 2
    #22076373 - 08/11/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Giftofdeprivation said:
So, consider that a cat's life expectancy is about 5x longer when it's indoor only.




5x? thats a pretty ridiculous number. your getting your info from wackadoo sources

we found my cat on the side of the road. it was a couple months old i think.

shes been going outside every day for 16 years. well, except in winter.

in fact, if she didnt go outside, she probably would have developed diabetes a long time ago. the only problems weve had with her being outdoors are the ocassional tick, and her fighting with other cats


i personally think all cats should be allowed outside if its possible. they cant harm people(unless their forcably picked up i guess), and dont wander too far away and get lost unlike dogs


Edited by Adolin (08/11/15 01:25 PM)


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OfflineOggy
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Dilsnique] * 2
    #22076387 - 08/11/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yes it is morally acceptable. Cat's are invasive species. They kill natural fauna of an area even when they're not hungry. That's just their instinct.
Also an outdoor cat would have an immeasurable lifespan due to random events of nature(and human) intervention. Such as dogs, birds of prey(actually happened to me as I was watching the cat..) and other animals. Also cars and the horrible nature of people.


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OfflineGiftofdeprivation
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Oggy]
    #22076423 - 08/11/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Oggy said:
Also cars and the horrible nature of people.



The good nature of people can cause problems too. Stranger feeds an outdoor cat, it's basically their cat now.


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InvisibleOsculateOfDemise
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Oggy]
    #22076425 - 08/11/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I have had cats that have died while outside, ive also had cats that do just fine having outdoor access. It really depends on how 'street smart' your cat is. You can't just randomly decide one day after the cat is a few years old that it can go outside. My cat is/was feral and had no problem fending for himself and was smart enough to know when to get the fuck back inside. A lot of other cats are not. It also depends on your area. Are there lots of traffic on your street? Dogs? Wild animals? We cannot predict the future though and anything can happen. It's a gamble either way.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation] * 1
    #22076435 - 08/11/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Giftofdeprivation said:
So, consider that a cat's life expectancy is about 5x longer when it's indoor only. Most people live near busy streets and/or wild animals.

On the other side: If you have not already, I suggest you learn about poverty of the stimulus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_of_the_stimulus
... She might have missed her cognitive developmental period to learn what she needs to survive outside. What can I do? I just don't want my Mina to be my slave. It's inevitable, huh?




Your cat has missed the opportunity to learn proper grammar and will forever have a meow impediment.

Cats are pretty naturally adept hunters -- two of the cats in my house are feral cats that we  ended up taming, but the third is a house cat who had never been outside until he was roughly seven or older.
House cat still hunts with full proficiency when it comes to mice in the yard and garage, just none of them have to worry about sleeping in the snow or rain.
Fortunately, none of them actively need to fear for their lives and survival every day -- when they get tired of hunting for fun they can go take a 10 hour nap on the bed under the shelter of the roof.

By contrast, stray cats living in the city in Montréal (which has one of the largest stray cat populations in North America to my comprehension) frequently die within 2-3 years due to things like exposure to the elements.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Oggy] * 1
    #22076438 - 08/11/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Had indoor cats for years and I always felt horrible. Cats live for the outdoors man, same as dogs. When I finally let them out they loved it. (one of said cats had very poor survival skills but one of our outdoor cats toughened him up. they're not helpless, I think your cat could learn the ways. its instinct based)

I have a very frail kitty who spends almost all of his time just sitting in the backyard enjoying simply being outdoors.


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OfflineGiftofdeprivation
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Tantrika]
    #22076452 - 08/11/15 01:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SweetLeafSamadhi said:
Your cat has missed the opportunity to learn proper grammar and will forever have a meow impediment.


Poverty of the simulus:

Haha, yeah, back in university all the developmental psych professors and students stole this linguistic gem and used it as their own. Myself included. We stretch the meaning a bit :P


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Looking for recipes? Have some recipes to share?
Please post what you have in the official cooking thread for Pubbers!
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Posters Beware!


Edited by Giftofdeprivation (08/11/15 01:38 PM)


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OfflineLove_spirit
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation] * 1
    #22076459 - 08/11/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I have a very happy outdoor indoor kitty. I would never get a cat if it had to remain indoors. Also caging birds is like the worst thing you can do. :mad2:
I Would rather live a day of freedom then a lifetime in a cage.


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Love_spirit] * 1
    #22076625 - 08/11/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Female cats tend to do better outside than male cats. So far my outside male cat mortality rate is 100% and the mortality rate for girl cats is 0% (at least for traumatic injury).


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OfflineLove_spirit
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 1
    #22076670 - 08/11/15 02:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Adopted a female cat for this reason.


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OfflinePsilocybend
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: OsculateOfDemise] * 1
    #22076760 - 08/11/15 02:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OsculateOfDemise said:
I have had cats that have died while outside, ive also had cats that do just fine having outdoor access. It really depends on how 'street smart' your cat is. You can't just randomly decide one day after the cat is a few years old that it can go outside. My cat is/was feral and had no problem fending for himself and was smart enough to know when to get the fuck back inside. A lot of other cats are not. It also depends on your area. Are there lots of traffic on your street? Dogs? Wild animals? We cannot predict the future though and anything can happen. It's a gamble either way.




Pretty much this! If you don't think your cat would survive out on his own, I personally don't see a problem with walking em on a leash.


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InvisibleA Day InThe Life
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Love_spirit] * 1
    #22076802 - 08/11/15 02:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I have a cat that's a rescue from an animal shelter. I had an indoor cat throughout my childhood and was used to that (couldn't really go out if he wanted, declawed and lived in an apartment building) so I tried to do this with the rescue cat. It just didn't work out, she was timid at first and stayed inside but then after a bit she'd sit by the door all day and wait for you to come home and dart out before you had a chance to stop her. She'd always be back a short time later though so I figured maybe that's what she's used to and so I just started letting her go out whenever she wanted.

The neighbours talk about her just chilling in their backyards all day and thankfully they all seem to like her company/personality. Some nights she doesn't get back home before I go to bed but she's always around somewhere and she's about 10 years old now and haven't had any issues aside from the odd fight with another cat. I now feel like it would be a shame to keep a cat locked up indoors all day; I can see how restless she gets when she can't go out.

EDIT: my cat is also spayed and there isn't a lot of traffic near the house.


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Edited by A Day InThe Life (08/11/15 02:56 PM)


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InvisibleNiffla
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Psilocybend]
    #22076840 - 08/11/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know, so long as an indoor cat receives lots of love & attention, I don't see the problem. They have an endless supply of food & water and have a roof over their head in a room temperature environment, as opposed to having to endure the harsh summers & winters that a lot of climates present.

It's not like they're locked inside a literal cage.

I have a sister who lives out in the country, and her kids like cats. And she doesn't want an indoor cat to take care of, so they made all of their cats outdoor cats. 4 of them to be exact (one at a time). And all 4 eventually, anywhere from a few months to a few years, disappeared. Probably hunted down by coyotes, because where they live coyotes are rampant.

I have a friend that owned 2 outdoor cats (this time in the city) -- and one was fatally hit by a car (and didn't die immediately; had to suffer for several hours before they got her to the clinic to be put down), and the other came back one day with a severe leg injury (fight with another animal according to him) and died 4 days later after taking it to the vet.

Yes, ideally a cat would have the best of both worlds -- access to indoors & out, but a highly populated city is a very, very dangerous world for a domesticated cat to be, and the countryside can be equally dangerous in different ways.

In a lot of ways indoor cats have the good life.


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Edited by Niffla (08/11/15 03:04 PM)


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation] * 1
    #22076927 - 08/11/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Giftofdeprivation said:
So, consider that a cat's life expectancy is about 5x longer when it's indoor only. Most people live near busy streets and/or wild animals.

On the other side: If you have not already, I suggest you learn about poverty of the stimulus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_of_the_stimulus
and read/watch the allegory of the cave (one of my favorite stories by plato):
http://study.com/academy/lesson/the-allegory-of-the-cave-by-plato-summary-analysis-explanation.html
...if you wish to keep up with myself and others here.

I posted it in the pub for a reason though, so do your worst, fiends! :shakefist:

I ask because my cat is 3 years old. She was let outside a bit by the previous owner, but in the last 8 months I've had her, she's gone outside about 4 times a week with a leash. Naturally, she really wants to go out alone. Once she sneaked out and I found her stuck in my neighbors garage for a full day. She might have missed her cognitive developmental period to learn what she needs to survive outside. What can I do? I just don't want my Mina to be my slave. It's inevitable, huh?




That last part almost sounds like animal abuse. Four times in eight months?


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Bitter Cactus] * 1
    #22076935 - 08/11/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't read the whole thread, but indoor only is the only way I can keep my cat. He wouldn't survive a day in my yard.


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[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote]
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InvisibleNiffla
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Bitter Cactus] * 1
    #22076957 - 08/11/15 03:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
That last part almost sounds like animal abuse. Four times in eight months?




4 times a week


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OfflineGiftofdeprivation
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22077036 - 08/11/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:
interesting you'd see that as abuse after the previous poster's points about the dangers of the outdoors. Conditioning her to want to go outside might be abusive...

After reading everyone's posts, I'm learning that it really is a situational thing. In my case, I'll probably continue to confine her to a leash (we're right next to a major arterial road in a suburb of Seattle and at some point I might move to SE Asia, where cats aren't pets). If she really gets so determined to go outside alone, I'll relocate her to a nice farm (euphemism; I'm going to eat her).

Thank you for the responses so far!


Edited by Giftofdeprivation (08/11/15 03:48 PM)


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InvisibleA Day InThe Life
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Re: Is it morally OK to own an indoor only cat? [Re: Giftofdeprivation] * 1
    #22077055 - 08/11/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

My neighbours let their cat out only in their backyard. They installed this special cat netting around the fences and trees thats on an angle so he can't climb out over anything. I'm not sure if they keep him to the backyard for his safety or because he literally just goes around starting fights with the first cat he sees every time he gets out.


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Edited by A Day InThe Life (08/11/15 03:52 PM)


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