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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: mollymadman]
#22079704 - 08/12/15 01:50 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mollymadman said:
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404 said:
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mollymadman said: Look man, I'm pretty sure most of the damage associated with MDMA is because of dirty m, not the m itself. Either way you're right to a certain extent. Once every 2 weeks is probably better. Maybe even once a month. Once I start working I'll cut back significantly. Shulgin said once every 3 mths is ideal.
you just had several users present peer-reviewed material noting that mdma is harmful to your health, and you're going to ignore it and say it's because you think it has something to do with the drugs being impure?
gtfo 
I'm skeptical about drug science. Usually there's an agenda, and its bias.
Skepticism is all well and good but rejecting ALL drug science is not skepticism, it's closed-mindedness. Some papers are informative while others convey more of institutional bias than real information. But you can figure this out on an individual basis by actually reading the papers. The observable effects of administering purified MDMA to lab rats aren't going to be affected by the fact that a lot of street MDMA gets cut with a smorgasbord of other drugs. Of course, this is just another reason to exercise due caution when using street MDMA.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Bitter Cactus
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Registered: 01/26/12
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Dangerous to use long term if you care about your heart, yes.
"Because 5-HTP has not been thoroughly studied in a clinical setting, possible side effects and interactions with other drugs are not well known.
Administered serotonin has been shown to increase the risk of heart valve disease in animals.[19][20] 5-HTP has not been subjected to this test. Oral 5-HTP results in an increase in urinary 5-HIAA, a serotonin metabolite, indicating that 5-HTP is peripherally metabolized to serotonin, which is then metabolized. This might cause a false positive test in tests looking for carcinoid syndrome.[21]
5-HTP can cause hypertension by increasing plasma renin activity, when not co-administered with a peripheral aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase inhibitor, such as carbidopa or benserazide.[22]
Direct and indirect evidence for possible yet unproven risks and side effects associated with 5-HTP when overdosed:
* Heart valve damage or disease (cardiac fibrosis).[19][20] * When combined with MAOIs or SSRIs, 5-HTP can cause acute serotonin syndrome.[23][24] * When combined with carbidopa (as a treatment for symptoms of Parkinson's disease), 5-HTP causes nausea and vomiting; however this can be alleviated via administration of granisetron.[25] As mentioned above under pharmacology, cases of scleroderma-like illness have been reported in patients using carbidopa and 5-HTP.[26]
It has been suggested that 5-HTP may cause eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS), a serious condition which results in extreme muscle tenderness, myalgia, and blood abnormalities. However, there is evidence to show that EMS was caused by a contaminant in early 5-HTP supplements, before the introduction of the current Good Manufacturing Practices by the United States FDA in 2007. Many countries now employ similar regulation..[27]"
That is just one source I just found I don't feel like googling it everywhere.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
Edited by Bitter Cactus (08/12/15 01:53 AM)
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mollymadman
love each other :)

Registered: 08/12/15
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
mollymadman said:
Quote:
404 said:
Quote:
mollymadman said: Look man, I'm pretty sure most of the damage associated with MDMA is because of dirty m, not the m itself. Either way you're right to a certain extent. Once every 2 weeks is probably better. Maybe even once a month. Once I start working I'll cut back significantly. Shulgin said once every 3 mths is ideal.
you just had several users present peer-reviewed material noting that mdma is harmful to your health, and you're going to ignore it and say it's because you think it has something to do with the drugs being impure?
gtfo 
I'm skeptical about drug science. Usually there's an agenda, and its bias.
Skepticism is all well and good but rejecting ALL drug science is not skepticism, it's closed-mindedness. Some papers are informative while others convey more of institutional bias than real information. But you can figure this out on an individual basis by actually reading the papers. The observable effects of administering purified MDMA to lab rats aren't going to be affected by the fact that a lot of street MDMA gets cut with a smorgasbord of other drugs. Of course, this is just another reason to exercise due caution when using street MDMA.
That's actually a really good point. It's portant not to sway too hard towards any side of reasoning.
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404
error


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Posts: 14,539
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22079718 - 08/12/15 01:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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honestly, if i'm using MDMA at all i'm going to be more concerned with heart disease resulting from that and not so much the 5htp i use to help bounce back 
https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206528
i googled it and the only thing that seemed worth noting was this post. didn't refine to a search from .edu sources
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: 404]
#22079722 - 08/12/15 01:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
404 said: honestly, if i'm using MDMA at all i'm going to be more concerned with heart disease resulting from that and not so much the 5htp i use to help bounce back 
https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206528
i googled it and the only thing that seemed worth noting was this post. didn't refine to a search from .edu sources
I honestly think power dosing the 5htp after a roll is so shitty for your heart and will hardly give you any relief you are looking for. You need to let your brain heal not just shove supplements down your throat.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22079729 - 08/12/15 02:02 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i don't see a whole lot saying how it's bad for you.
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Bitter Cactus
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: 404]
#22079736 - 08/12/15 02:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would not use 5htp long term, short term is okay.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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mollymadman
love each other :)


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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22079739 - 08/12/15 02:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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No offense man but you seem to have a bias against mdma, it's making you seem a little misinformed and thickheaded.
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MagicalOrangutan
Curious Cat



Registered: 06/29/12
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: mollymadman]
#22079740 - 08/12/15 02:05 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Rebel, cacti definitely give you what mushrooms and LSD cannot. The mind space and qualitative nature of the feeling that a STRONG cacti trip gives you (difficult to eat that much cactus or tea, which is why I plan on experimenting with extraction asap), cannot be attained by any other drug imho.
And to make this relevant to the thread, real mescaline gives you euphoria, empathy and bonding potential without any thought of neurotoxicity and no, you can't get the same benefits from other psychedelics in my experience imho
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: mollymadman]
#22079743 - 08/12/15 02:07 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mollymadman said: No offense man but you seem to have a bias against mdma, it's making you seem a little misinformed and thickheaded.
Use MDMA a few times a year, have fun. I think it is a great drug and great experience. Using it once a week is abuse.
I obviously abused other drugs in the past and those drugs are bad too. I know you don't believe the studies I showed you but they are scientific and completely valid. MDMA is neurotoxic
You don't have to believe me, fine. But do some research. It is one of the drugs that is the hardest on your brain in my opinion.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
Edited by Bitter Cactus (08/12/15 02:09 AM)
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mollymadman
love each other :)


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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22079748 - 08/12/15 02:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Cool man, I hear you. I'm not trying to cause any tension or anything. I'll give those studies a read when I get a chance.
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: mollymadman]
#22079782 - 08/12/15 02:37 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Methamphetamine is also just as bad if not worse (I think it's much worse) than MDMA and you seem to have no problem with that so what gives and 5-htp definitely helps me and a shit ton of other people with the hangover from MDMA so please don't spout bullshit saying it does nothing when there's clearly a large percentage of people that it does help.
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22079784 - 08/12/15 02:40 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think meth is way worse in real life scenerios cause most people abuse it where as MDMA is used maybe a couple times a year.
Trust me I never was under the impression when I did meth it was safe in any way.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22079803 - 08/12/15 02:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I just feel like smoking methamphetamine constantly staying up for days on end just shoving as much of the drug as you can into your system paired with no sleep and little to no food is wayyyyyyy worse for you than taking MDMA for ONE night followed by sleep, food, supplements to help your body make more serotonin and weeks In between your next time taking it.
Honestly I know I'm probably an exception but I've been using MDMA for YEARS with maybe 200+ times rolling and I feel no depression, no cognitive problems, and no loss in the magic of the substance.
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22079805 - 08/12/15 02:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rebelutionsssss said: I just feel like smoking methamphetamine constantly staying up for days on end just shoving as much of the drug as you can into your system paired with no sleep and little to no food is wayyyyyyy worse for you than taking MDMA for ONE night followed by sleep, food, supplements to help your body make more serotonin and weeks In between your next time taking it.
Honestly I know I'm probably an exception but I've been using MDMA for YEARS with maybe 200+ times rolling and I feel no depression, no cognitive problems, and no loss in the magic of the substance.
I never argued against that point. I just said dose per dose MDMA is more neurotoxic.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22079810 - 08/12/15 03:02 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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As gottaloveacid (I think) pointed out, evidence for neurotoxicity at moderate doses of MDMA is pretty limited. Given this and how many people say that they were not severely affected after many times using MDMA, I'm kinda starting to get the feeling that there is such a thing as "overdoing" with MDMA but that if you stay on this side of that line, neurotoxicity is very limited.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
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what is a "moderate" dose?
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: 404]
#22079814 - 08/12/15 03:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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100-150 mg taken once? Something like that.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



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i believe the real damage occurs with these kids eating half grams in one drop and then following that dose with multiple 200mg doses. Followed by multiple days rolling with this amount
I've heard of people doing this for 4 days all the way to past a week. That's when you're SEVERELY damaging your serotonin receptors and killing them off not with these small 120-150mgs doses with no redosing and the proper steps to minimize the damage from that I.e plenty of water and breaks between dancing if you're taking it in a party setting.
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22080685 - 08/12/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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