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Love_spirit
Circle Of Power


Registered: 07/18/15
Posts: 1,208
Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22085981 - 08/13/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Some study's have said there's an 80% deficit in the serotonin function of ecstasy users
Could that end up being a problem if you like to trip since They are all serotonergic drugs. hmmmm.
Edited by Love_spirit (08/13/15 10:45 AM)
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22085989 - 08/13/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Meth absolutely loses the magic. The first time you use it some dopamine receptors die off and you can never hit that same first high again. If you dose more and use a needle you may get a stronger high then your first one, but each high kills off some dopamine receptors and makes you less able to feel pleasure, including meth pleasure, as time goes on.
Trust me, there is ZERO magic left for real long term meth addicts.
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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Uzziel
O_o


Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 11,689
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Moonshoe]
#22086125 - 08/13/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've taken MDMA for years with a lot of abuse in it and have not used it in awhile but a lot of casual use of it as well
I can easily say I feel the best in my life now then any time else in my life
If MDMA does damage, it seemingly isn't permanent and if it is, it is to a degree that isn't noticeable to me
Either way... 100% worth the experiences I got to have, even if I do live shorter because of it.
Not like I'm getting out of this alive, hah
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Moonshoe]
#22086223 - 08/13/15 11:12 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: Meth absolutely loses the magic. The first time you use it some dopamine receptors die off and you can never hit that same first high again. If you dose more and use a needle you may get a stronger high then your first one, but each high kills off some dopamine receptors and makes you less able to feel pleasure, including meth pleasure, as time goes on.
Trust me, there is ZERO magic left for real long term meth addicts.
Have you done meth?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Good for you
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Yukon Cornelius
Bumble Wrangler



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 1,348
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Uzziel] 2
#22086348 - 08/13/15 11:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Uzziel said: I've taken MDMA for years with a lot of abuse in it and have not used it in awhile but a lot of casual use of it as well
I can easily say I feel the best in my life now then any time else in my life
If MDMA does damage, it seemingly isn't permanent and if it is, it is to a degree that isn't noticeable to me
Either way... 100% worth the experiences I got to have, even if I do live shorter because of it.
Not like I'm getting out of this alive, hah
Right on, the reasoning behind why MDMA and other relatively benign "hard drugs" are so bad is completely biased. If you ingest any type of substance that does damage in any way shape or form it is considered to be a bad idea.
Just like the argument that weed smoking is bad because it's a lung irritant. Anything other than good quality air(which is scarce), ion rich clean water(that exists in very few parts of the world), and a specifically formulated bland nutrient paste like Soylent is bad for your body.
Even excitatory states such as climbing mountains, holding your breath underwater, having sex, falling in love, are not completely optimal for your brain health.
It takes the notion that humans are fragile machines that can't and shouldn't have their circuitry compromised whatsoever as the way to live life fully.
We exist in a world constantly bombarded with free radicals, ionizing radiation, and naturally occurring harmful chemicals. Sure we should be conscious of how we tip the scales but we should not fear the destroying nature of reality to the extent that we isolate ourselves away from it.
-------------------- "I didn't know chicken's wore suspenders" - Towelie
Edited by Yukon Cornelius (08/13/15 12:55 PM)
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
#22086359 - 08/13/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's deep.
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wigglewak



Registered: 04/26/15
Posts: 1,961
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Uzziel]
#22086367 - 08/13/15 11:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not a scientist (surprise surprise) but I believe from my experience that you brain can heal the damage done from alcohol and other drug abuse. I don't think neurons die off forever. (I think it is natural down regulation to maintain homeostasis which would up regulate once your brain chemistry levels out) On the other hand maybe the brain rewires the neurons it does have and we just have so much we are able to lose a bunch throughout our lives. I still personally believe with cognitive exercises (like sudoku) and exercise and eating healthy that you can achieve normal brain activity.
Real brain damage seems to be from physical blunt trauma or toxic solvent exposure.
Also a lot of X casualties have it in their mind that they are fucked forever so psychologically that's the way they feel and behave. I think it's a lot of mind over matter.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: wigglewak] 1
#22086403 - 08/13/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Definitely agree with that. People underestimate the healing power and versatility of the brain.
For one thing, I've noticed most people can't distinguish between neurotoxicity and brain cell death. In fact, there are a lot of drugs (such as MDMA, as BC pointed out) which merely cause damage to brain cells without killing them, and I'm sure this is true of meth at the more reasonable recreational doses as well. This damage, while causing impairment, can heal over time. Second, it has been confirmed that the brain actually IS capable of generating new neurons, in spite of the conventional wisdom responsible for that depressing attitude some recovering addicts have. Third, the brain's compartmentalization is somewhat fluid and it is capable of "outsourcing" tasks to new brain regions.
One of the examples of that last phenomenon that I find really fascinating is the capability of some deaf people to literally see by echolocation, as their visual cortex is activated by the use of this skill, rather than the brain areas typically associated with hearing.
Neuroplasticity
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 13,851
Loc:
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: wigglewak]
#22086413 - 08/13/15 11:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
wigglewak said: I'm not a scientist (surprise surprise) but I believe from my experience that you brain can heal the damage done from alcohol and other drug abuse. I don't think neurons die off forever. (I think it is natural down regulation to maintain homeostasis which would up regulate once your brain chemistry levels out) On the other hand maybe the brain rewires the neurons it does have and we just have so much we are able to lose a bunch throughout our lives. I still personally believe with cognitive exercises (like sudoku) and exercise and eating healthy that you can achieve normal brain activity.
Real brain damage seems to be from physical blunt trauma or toxic solvent exposure.
Also a lot of X casualties have it in their mind that they are fucked forever so psychologically that's the way they feel and behave. I think it's a lot of mind over matter.
Its funny you say that. I took a neuroplasticity class last semester and outside of like 3 or 4 mechanisms. Nobody really has any fucking clue how it works.
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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Yukon Cornelius
Bumble Wrangler



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 1,348
Loc: Peppermint Mines
Last seen: 4 hours, 13 minutes
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It is true that the brain has the ability to heal itself, the idea that you can't restore a set number of neurons in your brain is an antiquity from an era in science where we were barely scratching the surface of neurology.
Hell we still have a lot of shit to figure out, that's why I get my jimmies rustled when someone uses the term "chemical imbalance" to justify psychiatric medication, as if there is a finite amount of neurotransmitters that every individual should have.
-------------------- "I didn't know chicken's wore suspenders" - Towelie
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
#22086478 - 08/13/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yukon Cornelius said: It is true that the brain has the ability to heal itself, the idea that you can't restore a set number of neurons in your brain is an antiquity from an era in science where we were barely scratching the surface of neurology.
Hell we still have a lot of shit to figure out, that's why I get my jimmies rustled when someone uses the term "chemical imbalance" to justify psychiatric medication, as if there is a finite amount of neurotransmitters that every individual should have.
I used to take issue with the "chemical imbalance" thing but after experiencing a rapid remission of a huge variety of harrowing psychiatric issues after starting a certain medication regimen, I put a bit more stock into it. Not that I think antidepressants are the answer to most problems or that pill pushers know what the fuck they are talking about except by accident at times.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Yukon Cornelius
Bumble Wrangler



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 1,348
Loc: Peppermint Mines
Last seen: 4 hours, 13 minutes
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Anecdotally that's fine, do whatever works. I just don't like blanket terms and generalizations in that field, it makes the human experience seem more homogeneous than it actually is.
-------------------- "I didn't know chicken's wore suspenders" - Towelie
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
#22086628 - 08/13/15 12:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ya Moonshoe in my experience meth did not lose the magic one single bit. Part of it has to do with the LD50. My sort of friend attempted to kill himself and shot up two half a gram shots of meth back to back as quickly as possible. He ended up in the ER with major psychosis but survived. I have read on forums like bluelight and drug forum over people shooting up crazy amounts like 0.7 grams of meth in one blast and living to tell the tale. You can simply push the drug so far that it never loses it magic. You have a higher tolerance and need more to tweak but I still found the magic is always there.
MDMA I found is different. You are ingesting it orally and doing a huge amount does not feel good in the same way it does with meth. Once you cross a certain line the feel good becomes feel bad. I have read other drug forums where losing the magic is actually a big problem for a lot of the people. Some of them even take extended breaks to only discover that it is still not nearly as good as the first time. When I used meth I did some big shots earlier in my use that were amazing, my first time I injected it, but in no way shape or form did those injections compare to some of the more ballsy one's where I would just randomly empty a bag of meth that could have had over 300mgs of it and put it in my spoon and smash it to see what happens. I had the confidence I would no die and at that point it was a thrill.
I would not be surprised if meth addicts that use it for five years lose the magic, but my friend who tried to kill himself with the half gram shots still raves and raves about some of his most recent rushes and he has been going at it for ten years.
Other drugs like cocaine, crack, heroin, ect. I believe do not lose the magic. I guarantee any heroin addict with a massive shot with a tolerance higher then the sky and stil nod the fuck out and feel good. I guarantee a crack addict of many years could smoke some good rock and be on their knees with a bell ringer in nirvana. I just feel something with MDMA, if you abuse the fuck out of it, that initial magic of the first few highs rarely returns to full capacity.
MDMA is a million times better of a drug to try then meth by the way. I don't want anyone to think otherwise, but the idea it does not do long term damage to your brain is such bullshit. First of all, in the short term, serotonin takes a long time to regenerate in comparison to dopamine. That means when you are doing MDMA every month, there are literally a good two or three weeks out of that month where your brain is low on serotonin. It seriously does take such a long time to come back to baseline and when you are low on serotonin your mood is low, you have problems concentrating and the only time your serotonin is at or above normal levels is on the MDMA. It does damage your serotonin axons which are never gonna come back. I think over time you brain can recover probably 95 percent of the brain function of a normal person and form different connections, but you can't bring those damaged serotonin axons back to life and have them working at full capacity.
I read that meth does long term damage to your brain for the rest of your life too. So I probably have some permanent brain damage to my dopamine receptors, in a year or two I believe their function will be nearly the same as a normal person but never as good as if I never tried it in the first place.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
Edited by Bitter Cactus (08/13/15 12:33 PM)
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
Yukon Cornelius said: It is true that the brain has the ability to heal itself, the idea that you can't restore a set number of neurons in your brain is an antiquity from an era in science where we were barely scratching the surface of neurology.
Hell we still have a lot of shit to figure out, that's why I get my jimmies rustled when someone uses the term "chemical imbalance" to justify psychiatric medication, as if there is a finite amount of neurotransmitters that every individual should have.
I used to take issue with the "chemical imbalance" thing but after experiencing a rapid remission of a huge variety of harrowing psychiatric issues after starting a certain medication regimen, I put a bit more stock into it. Not that I think antidepressants are the answer to most problems or that pill pushers know what the fuck they are talking about except by accident at times.
don't antidepressants like prozac work by increasing neurogenesis in select regions that deal directly with mood and emotional regulation? neurotransmitters are just one part of the picture.
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: 404]
#22087548 - 08/13/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yukon Cornelius said: Anecdotally that's fine, do whatever works. I just don't like blanket terms and generalizations in that field, it makes the human experience seem more homogeneous than it actually is.
It certainly isn't there are many variations to empirical generalizations but that doesn't make it any less untrue.
Quote:
404 said: don't antidepressants like prozac work by increasing neurogenesis in select regions that deal directly with mood and emotional regulation? neurotransmitters are just one part of the picture.
Right and that's the error. They deal directly but it's just one part of the picture.
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Yukon Cornelius
Bumble Wrangler



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 1,348
Loc: Peppermint Mines
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: 404]
#22087552 - 08/13/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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No, if that was the case every single person would be on prozac(or more than there already are).
Neurotransmitters are just piece of the puzzle. Scientists are starting to gain more understanding of an alternative role that they have in modulating the action of other neurotransmitters, such serotonin which is both a neurotransmitter and neuromodulator.
-------------------- "I didn't know chicken's wore suspenders" - Towelie
Edited by Yukon Cornelius (08/13/15 02:40 PM)
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 13,851
Loc:
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Yukon Cornelius] 1
#22087569 - 08/13/15 02:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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Yukon Cornelius
Bumble Wrangler



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 1,348
Loc: Peppermint Mines
Last seen: 4 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22087574 - 08/13/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You really like using that graemlin on me today don't you malcom?
Until I read that article in more detail I stand by my conclusion that prozac isn't all sunshine and rainbows.
-------------------- "I didn't know chicken's wore suspenders" - Towelie
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 13,851
Loc:
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
#22087576 - 08/13/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Haha some of your comments today have been pretty questionable man
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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